[Adam Silver]

I am debating between buying either a Palm IIIxe or Visor Deluxe. I am leaning towards buying the Palm IIIxe - the physical design of it is superior and the OS can be upgraded.

I would like to hear what other people think. Which PDA do you think is better and why?

I'd recommend the Palm too, even though the Visor is pretty nice - the upgradeable ROM and the physical design are both considerable plusses.

I like the idea of the Springboard slot, but there just haven't been any modules that really do it for me.

I think the Palm is cool because it can recharge in the cradle. The Visor uses alkaline batteries (and doesn't seem to work with Ni-MH). This is probably the main advantage that the Palm has. You never have to worry about batteries.

On the other hand, the Visor is easily expanded. You can pop in a Springboard module, like a modem or memory module, to customize or extend your Visor easily.

The Visor is Mac-ready out of the box. It ships with Mac software and a USB cradle - something you may pay extra for when buying Palm.

You CAN updgrade the OS in the Visor. You can apply patches, though you can't flash the memory: the enhanced Palm OS is in ROM. Check out Visor's comparison page for more details.

Plus, the Visor has a built in microphone. Big woop, maybe. But it could come in handy later...

[hayesk]

The Palm IIIxe does not recharge in the cradle. I own one - it uses 2 AAA batteries.

I too like the Palm over the Visor because it is upgradeable and has a sleeker form factor.

If you have a serial port, you only need a $10 adapter. Otherwise, the USB adapter which (I think) is $40 - The Visor comes with USB connectivity in the box.

Ah, I see. I was confusing the Palm IIIxe with the Palm Vx. My mistake.

It seems that my hold-out for the primary advantage of the Palm (cradle recharging) is then negated.

This conception that the Visor is not OS upgradable concerns me. True, you cannot flash-upgrade the OS like you can with the Palm. However, you can upgrade the OS via softare patches, or using the Springboard interface. In addition, the Palm OS in the visor, though technically v3.1, is an enhanced version thereof that incorporates many of the advantages of Palm OS 3.3. Check out Visor's FAQ if these features interest you.

I happen to prefer the Visor. The OS upgrade issue is a non-issue. The springboard aspect, though silly for most applications, is terrific for more memory or modem add-ons.

I have owned the deluxe visor for two months. I have found it reliable, fast, easy synch with the mac. I have also purchased the targus keyboard, wich is a great compliment if your away from your computer for extended times. I also think the physical design is superior to the palm, good ergonomics and buttons.

[pdjr]

According to my source, Handspring will release the second generation Visor by the end of the year. If you can wait, it might offer a flash-upgradeable OS and a sleeker form factor. It's still in its infancy.

The ability to update the OS is a moot point. Visors run Palm OS 3.1, fine tuned to run faster, and with a different calander/clock combo than Palm models which puts it on par with Palm 3.3. The only things which Visors are not able to do by not being able to flash their OS, is add support for PQAs (moot because they have no build in antenna) or have a colour display ala Palm OS 3.5 (um, seeing as they have a black and white display, I'm not sure this is much of a problem).

Palm OS updates mainly address adding support for the new features Palm puts into its new devices. Thus, having a patch from a Springboard modlule (ie, a wireless Springboard module adding support for PQA's) seems quite a good idea. If you don't have the hardware to support, why support it?

[alkelson]

Well, how's this for definitive:
I've owned two Palms. I bought a Visor Deluxe two months ago. Last month I bought a Visor Deluxe for my wife. Two weeks ago I bought one for my son-in-law. (NO: I'm not loaded; I'm paying on time for two of them.)
I find the Visor superior because it syncs much more reliably on my USB-based PowerBook than my Pilot did on my serial-based 8500. It syncs better all around, as the current Consumer Reports also says. And its superior calendar works more like Now Up to Date, my PIM of choice. Also, I haven't found any Pilot software I really want that doesn't run on the Visor; I have at least a dozen apps I use regularly.
Clearly, if I were to buy another one, it would be the Visor. (And I use AAA NiMH batteries in mine.)

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Allen Kelson

I recently bought a new Palm IIIxe, and am very happy with it.

Before I bought the IIIxe, I looked at the Handspring Visor units at my local CompUSA, and decided on the Palm.

Here are the factors that caused me to lean towards the Palm:
The flashable ROM
The sleakness of the case
The 8 MB of RAM
The newer Palm OS - version 3.5 compared to 3.1
The feel of the case, and the responsiveness of the buttons
The overall design, and appearance of the Palm.
The Visor seemed to be using thinner plastic. Didn't look as durable to me.

Granted, if you use USB, and not serial, you will have to get a USB adapter, however, Keyspan makes them as well as Palm. The price of the adapter is around 40.00, as somebody already stated, however, that same adapter can be used with another Palm, if you should upgrade in the future.

One question you should also ask is "which company is likely to last longer?" Is it possible that one of these two companies will go bankrupt between now and the time you'll need support or warantee work?
I absolutely love my IIIxe. My only problems were with the delayed 9.0.4 upgrade from Palm; that really ticked me off. Aside from that, Palm would be my recommendation. Call it a gut instinct.

I have heard that the size of the palm is smaller/thinner than the visor, and was also told that the plastics used in the visor are cheaper and tend not to hold up as well. Would love to hear input from those of you who have owned or used both. Thanks in advance. - b

as I am still confused as to which to buy.

I have used the Visor Deluxe for the last 6 months. I got mine at MacWorld. I have had no probles withit at all. It syncs with my iMac rev D running OS 9.0.4 without a single problem.

The main reason that I got it was the price, at the time it was half of what the same level Palm was. The lack of rechargeable batteries is not a problem. I have gone through 2 sets and just installed my third last month.

I use it every day for appts and phone numbers as well as a running expense report. I would highly recommend the Visor. Form factor is not an issue because after you put your Palm in the neat little cover it is just as large as the Visor and it still can be carried in your back pocket.

[Andrik]

I own a Visor Deluxe for about 4 months now and used to have a Palm IIIe before that (I broke that one).

I love my Visor. Syncing with my iMac (USB) is superior compared to the Palm. Syncing with my PC (at work, serial) is the same. Syncing with my Powerbook (Wallstreet G3, infrared) is inferior - because you can't use the Visor to sync via infrared without buying 3rd party software. I did that and it works flawlessly, but this is a fact that was not mentioned in this discussion so far.

I prefere the look and feel of the plastic of the Visor (personal taste), and it matches my iMac better (again, personal taste). I love the premium leather case that comes with the Visor for free, and I like Handspring for the fact that Mac/USB connectivity comes out of the box.

If form factor is really important I would shell out the extra cash and get a Palm Vx.

I don't really expect to be using my current Visor in three or four years from now because by then there will be much cooler and nicer and whatever machines out there, so I personally don't think you have to bother about the probability of the manufactorer to survive. And since they are OS compatible, all your investment in software should be fine.

I also like the idea of the Springborad modules, eg the vibrating alert.

Just my 2 cents.

[This message has been edited by Andrik (edited 06-05-2000).]

I've owned a Visor Deluxe since this past January (MWSF)... the Springboard slot, USB cradle, and a better RAM/price offering (which Palm has since matched, I believe) were the big factors. I'm thrilled with it.

As others have said, new Palm OS updates tend to be geared towards new hardware. Since you can expand the Visor's hardware through the Springboard slot, any patches to the OS can reside in the same cartridge... it's Handspring's party-line, but I buy into it.

The USB sync is stable and fast, and I give Handspring great credit in getting a fix out for the sync incompatibility introduced with 9.0.4 before Palm themselves did.

[schuss]

I'm waffling on the PalmIIIxe v. VisorDlx debate myself. My other big question is hardware support. All those modems and fold-up keyboards and GPS trackers and stuff - how well does the Visor integrate with the Palm line, with respect to hardware?

[genevish]

I owned a Palm Personal edition for two years, until I dropped it on tile and broke the screen. Palm wants $100 to fix it. Instead I went with the Visor Deluxe. I'm very happy with it.

As far as lack of Springboard modules, more are coming out very soon. I'm waiting for the six-pack myself.

-Scott

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-------------------------
Scott Genevish
genevish@mac.com
-------------------------

I am also trying to decide between the Palm and Visor. My question is if anyone has any detailed information on the PDA's that Sony is supposed to be releasing sometime this year? I know they licensed the Palm OS but haven't heard much about the products forthcoming and Mac compatibility.

Thanks for any info

[ussfolsom]

Two words: backup module

The Visor's backup module has been an indispensable piece of hardware. For $40 it backs up the entire 8 MB of RAM and allows you to safely restore if you ever have to hard reset. If you take long trips away from your computer, or if you are just out during the day and something happens, you can restore to the exact state you were when you backed up. This is something that restoring from your desktop won't even do. If you have any doc files you'd have to install them manually all over again, but not with the backup module. If you own a portable keyboard, such as the stowaway, and you type lengthy documents pop in the backup module so that you'll be sure not to lose anything.

That's just one reason I prefer the Visor. There are many others that I won't ramble on about at the moment. I do want to mention the buttons though, I prefer them over the palm's by a long shot. They look and feel nicer. Plus having the scroll buttons separated (as two buttons) is much better than the joint one on the Palm. Obviously the views about the buttons is just the way I feel about them, but don't count them out until you try them.

I just faced this decision two weeks ago and ended up buying a Visor Deluxe. I bought it from the local Staples, which happened to have both it and the Palm IIIxe on display. Until I actually got to hold one in my hand and play with it for a bit, I too was worried that the Visor was more fragile and less attractive than the Palm III. But, mine feels quite solid (it's a "graphite" model, if that makes a difference) and I found it looks better in real life than I thought it would. So far, I like it more the more I use it.

To be honest, I would still probably have bought the Palm if all things had been equal, (it's the "standard") but Palm wanted $40 extra for the Mac support that Handspring offered out of the box. The only thing I worry mildly about is that Springboard modules for GPS and wireless networking come out on schedule. But, there's no hurry - right now I'm still busy being overwhelmed by the amount of software that there is for these machines.

From what I can tell, the Palm-compatible TRGpro combines many good features -- for some reason this brand does not advertise nearly as much as Visor yet they seem to have a superior product according to most reviews. Flash-ROM (OS 3.5 due sometime soon); CF card device support (e.g., IBM's 340 MB micro drive); decent speaker (Visor's touted mic. is apparently not connectecd to anything internal); etc. Try this URL:
http://www.trgpro.com/product/faq_trgpro.html

[Adam Silver]

I looked at the TRGpro. It seems like a perfectly good PDA. The reason I am not considering it is the price; $330 is more than I am willing to spend on a PDA.

I have a Visor Deluxe, bought at MacWorld SF in January. I had a Palm Pro (upgraded to Palm 3) for 2 years before that.

I had concerns with the total lack of OS upgradeability, and warranty support if I ever needed it (I live in Australia, and there is no Visor sales/support here yet)

The guys on the Handspring booth said that the OS upgrades were really only for new hardware, and after 6 months of Visor ownership it seems they were right. Nothing in PalmOS 3.3/3.5 really matters to my machine, nor would it have mattered if I bought a PalmV instead.

Warranty hasn't become an issue because it has worked flawlessly.

Handspring had a MacOS 9.0.4/USB fix before Palm did, and rumour has it that the Palm one IS the Visor update anyway. Palm Desktop 2.6 supports the Visor directly, so it certainly sounds right.

Downside ? It took ages for Handspring to get Desktop 2.5 out.

Cheers,
Paul.

I think that most of the feature comparison points have been made. I love Handspring/Visor. I had a Palm Pro that had screen problems would have cost $100.
My wife dropped her Visor the 2nd day and shattered the screen - Handspring replaced it for FREE.
I have an Orange Deluxe and my wife has the Graphite standard. Both cases are very solid - they do not creak when twisted something the Palm Pro's were notorious for.
Flash ROM is a non-issue. Springboard is truly revolutionary but still in its infancy. To me the $250 and $150 that I spent on these Visors is a long-term investment because of the springboard.

[Adam Silver]

And now… the conclusion:

I bought a Palm IIIxe yesterday.

As I mentioned in my first post, the Visor Deluxe is ugly - especially the graphite one. However, the other colors do not look as bad as they do in Handspring's marketing materials. But I still think that the Palm IIIxe look better. (Visor fans: this is my personal opinion; you are allowed and encouraged to disagree.)

Of course looks aren't the only reason I chose the Palm over the Visor. What made up my mind is a current promotion from Palm. Anyone who buys a Palm organizer gets a free copy of Documents to Go, a program that allows viewing, but not yet editing of common word processing and spreadsheet documents. Normally this program is $40.

Yes, you're right, the USB adapter for Palms is also $40. A Visor Deluxe with Documents to Go would have cost just as much. But I don't need a USB adapter yet. Because it is summer and I am a college student, I will be living with my parents for the next few months. My mom has a Palm III with a USB adapter. I will use hers for now.

As for other advantages the Visor has over the Palm, here goes:

Springboard
I looked at the list of currently and soon to be available modules. The only one I might have bought at some point would be the InnoPak/2V, which makes a Visor vibrate instead of beep as well as give it an extra 2 megabytes of storage. I can live with quiet beeps.

Speed
I have read many reviews of the Visor and Visor Deluxe that claim they are significantly faster than any Palm PDA. I couldn't tell the difference. As for HotSyncing, I am sure I would have been able to notice a difference, but my Mom's Palm III seems to HotSync fast enough.

Enhanced Applications
I tried the enhanced versions of the Palm apps included with the Visor. I wouldn't use the extra features. Beyond this, it gets confusing seeing two programs with almost the same name in the Launcher.

With that said, Visor fans are probably right about operating system updates. So far, all Palm OS updates have done little more than add support for new hardware. I suppose this is why Handspring has not offered OS updates of its own (and why Palm has yet to offer a Palm OS 3.5 update to its own customers). It will probably take a major update to the Palm OS for Handspring to offer it to its customers.

[ussfolsom]

I guess it depends on what you use it for. If you just use it to keep memos and dates, then you wouldn't care about speed, springboard modules, or enhanced apps. I use my Visor for much more which is why I welcome the extra speed, expansion and scientific calculator. Personally I find the Palm series (except for the Palm V's) to be ugly and just plain dull. I love the color and shape of my Visor. If I could have afforded a Palm V then maybe I would have gotten one, but most likely the springboard option would have persuaded me to buy a Visor.

[Adam Silver]

Exactly. All I want is an organizer and memo pad. Actually, I want a little more than that. I also want to view and/or edit an occasional word processing, spreadsheet, and database document. (I would have bought a PocketPC if they weren't so expensive, had terrible battery lives, and didn't require me to fire up my copy Virtual PC in order to syncronize.)

As for the form, the Palm III series is not the greatest looking line of PDAs, but they certainly look better than all other Palm OS devices (with the exception of the Palm V series, of course). Also, I like the concept of a color case for a PDA, but regardless of color, I still think that the Visor is ugly.

I should add that Palm includes an optional scientific calculator. Also, Palm OS 3.5, currently available only with the Palm IIIxe and Palm IIIc, adds a new view to the standard Date Book:it is similar to "Today" view in Microsoft Outlook; it shows the day's appointments, events, and to do's without showing the unused times. I find this more useful than the two-week and year views included in the separate Date Book+ program included the Visor.

Finally, if money were no object, I would have bought a Palm IIIc. Although the Palm OS apps do not yet take advantage of color, black text on a white screen is easier on the eyes than black text on a green screen (or when the backlight is on, green text on a black screen). (I suspect that a future Flash ROM update will improve color support.) The shorter battery life is not an issue because of the included rechargable battery.

[schuss]

well, i took the plunge and bought a visor deluxe. took advantage of staples' price matching. asked for a black one, the guy gave me "ice" but it's actually kind of cool so i kept it. been great so far - upgrading from a Personal (OS 2!) was easy and seemless, no data loss or weirdness. enhanced datebook is great, so far everything but IR synching works on it just like it would on a PalmIII. (the Palm IREnhance update causes a hard-reset-type crash - don't install it!) i'm saving my pennies for the SixPack springboard mod mentioned above - very cool.

i have to say, gang, from a die hard Palm fan, the Visor really shines! the best of PalmOS tweaked to be just a notch better, a solid (and sturdy - despite appearance in pictures) form factor, and some good engineering (for example, the hard snap-on screen cover that's included snaps onto the back when the device is in use - doesn't get in the way like the star-trek-ish Palm one). overall, i'm quite impressed, and can highly recommend it. just make sure you're VERY clear with the electronics counter attendant at Staples...

I don't think it's as much of an argument as most people think it is...My mother uses a PalmIII, my father uses a Vx, and I myself have a Visor (standard, not deluxe). The advantage of the Vx is that the industrial design is pretty slick...but I love my visor because:
A) It was cheaper than the equivalent PalmIII (when counting cost of USB adapter needed for Palm) and I am a starving college student, so when I was buying it those $50.00 I saved went to food for a month. ;-)
B) Syncing on the visor using USB is FAST...way faster than my parent's palm devices sync (when they have me come over and show them how to sync that is...they're hopeless). They have serial connection to their PowerBook G3
C) Expandability...I own not a single Springboard device, but it's nice to know it's there.
D) The handspring-enhanced calendar is worth it alone, in my opinion...
E) About a month ago my Visor stopped syncing. I don't know why...but it just did. Handspring replaced it fast, and free.

BUT! in the long run you are using a cool gadget running PalmOS and you will likely have no regrets...Die, PocketPC/WinCE...DIE!!

[Adam Silver]

Haseeb, the date book app included with the Palm handhelds was updated with Palm OS 3.5. As I already mentioned, it adds a fourth view similar to the "today" screen in Microsoft Outlook. I find that more useful than the two week and year views included with "Date Book+" app on the Visors.

Also, PocketPC and Windows CE aren't that bad. A few more years and Microsoft will get it right.

[SupahCoolX]

I'm buying a Handspring Visor this Fri, but I have one question: standard vs. deluxe. Colors are a non-issue with me (i want the beef inside). Saving the $70 by getting a standard visor would be very helpful to me, but how far does only 2MB go in the PalmOS world? I'm not going to have 16,000 addresses or whatever like they say in the promotional pages (i'm not that popular..... yet). how does the 2MB stack up for apps, games, etc? i know i could always buy a memory-adding springboard module down the road, but i'd rather leave the slot open for something else... any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[Adam Silver]

If you're only going to use the included apps, 2MB is more than enough. The only reason you would need an 8MB PDA is if you plan on using memory-intensive applications. (Check the system requirements for every Palm OS program you think you might just use in the future.)

I went with the Palm IIIxe because I plan on storing quite a few Word and Excel documents on my Palm (via Documents to Go). While each individual file takes up little space, they do add up.

[Feathers]

I would've thought the answer was pretty obvious, all the Palm Brains are now at Handspring. Palm has been spun off from 3Com. See a pattern? For a future with imagination, go with a Visor, the springboard slot is just oozing cool potential. I mean, did anybody ever think there'd be a camera for the Gameboy? I am aware of one very large company that is handing Visors out like M&M's to it's employees. Watch this space!

[macbert]

I think you should be reading the news a little more closely, the newly announced SONY Palm OS based PDA is going to influence a lot of things, even if it ends up not being what you would want. It is going to raise the bar on the market. A lot of people are going to buy it just because it's a SONY product and althought the specifics aren't out yet, the good bet is that the other players (ie. PALM, Handspring, and TRG) will be reevaluating their products based on the performance of the SONY.

I myself have an IBM Workpad (a Black IIIx) and it's as good as i could ever want until my ram runs out. But, I am still thinking about going to the SONY because of their track record of making really great things in small packages (ie VAIO notebooks).



[This message has been edited by macbert (edited 06-28-2000).]

[squareman]

For those touting the expandability of Visor and Sony, Palm recently announced plans to do it's own [proprietary] expansion slot. It will be far smaller than the springboard slot (size of a postage stamp acording to the article).
http://yahoo.cnet.com/news/0-1006-20...html?macnn.com
http://www.palm.com/pr/062700c.html
http://www.palm.com/pr/062700.html

Also, for the one person that said Palm dragged their feet on releasing a 9.0.4 patch. Though I agree it looked frustrating, I had an inside source at the time that let me know that they were still QA testing the patch when Handspring released the beta version of the same Palm patch. They aren't satisfied until they know the product works right.

[This message has been edited by squareman (edited 06-30-2000).]

[BigMark]

My ears pricked up when I heard Sony were releasing a Palm OS PDA. I had my Palm V stolen a week ago, and although I'm still out for blood I did at least have everything synched with my desktop.

I was thinking of getting a newer version of the Palm V (with the same sleek design) but was confused by all the different models available. It was like the whole Mac Performa scenario all over again!
Anyway, had a brief look at my friends Visor Deluxe yesterday and didn't really like the boxy design. It was the first time I had seen a third party Palm OS device so I'm still getting used to the idea.
What about these rumours that Apple could be releasing a Palm OS PDA? Doesn't ring true with me but then again, I haven't put much thought to it.

[SupahCoolX]

Well, my PDA buying plans were thrown slightly off schedule, but after recent announcements, my $ is still going for a VisorDeluxe for the following reasons (minor hardware differences aside):
1. The Sony Palm comes out at the end of this year in Japan and a few months later in the US. It's so far off, i wouldn't let it influence my buying plans now (besides, who knows what Palm and handspring will have out by then). Also, sony hasn't announced pricing, which is a big factor.
2. Palm announced support for expansion slots, but Visors already have the slots available and builtin NOW.
3. Handspring's mac support. I support any company that is pro-mac, and that's that.
4. The upgradable OS doesn't matter that much. As new OS versions become necessary, Handspring will have them preinstalled on Visors. Also, springboard modules will come with any updates needed to use that functionality.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it (SNL.. heehee)

PS- About Apple's PDA... they said they're not working on one, but that may just be a swerve... MacWorldExpo is in a week or two, so we may get the "real" answer then...

[This message has been edited by SupahCoolX (edited 07-03-2000).]

Why limit yourself to the 3xe or the visor? If you definitely want something with a palm os, have you considered the TRGPro??? It has all the elegance of the Palm form factor, and the upgradeability that the Visor tried to do (but in my opinion, messed up with a "Proprietary" card slot), but instead uses the nearly universal ccompact flash card slot (and yup, it supports the ibm microdrive 340 mg memory card)!

It has 8MB of ram on board, is flash upgradeable and had it's own propritary software that makes backup (to a card, a pc, whatever) a snap. And from what I understand, the customer support is excellent. I believe they're at www.trgpro.com (the 8 mb model sells for $349, I believe). Good luck

[SupahCoolX]

most of us (well, me at least) are limited to the IIIxe/visor del. because of the $250 price tag.. the TRG is too expensive for most of us (well, me at least), but most of us (well, me at least) can see your good point... Another way to look at it is "get 2" bigger screen, DVD, etc. and go for a powerbook.." then you realize it costs $900 more..

OK, ok, I got it.....it is a big price difference. I guess what annoys me about the visor is that it's so cool, but there really aren't enough modules out there for it...and when you start addjg up how much you'll have to pay for those proprietary modules (like a modem), you're up to the price of the TRGPro (which will allow you to buy cheaper CF modems, memory etc.), right??