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Cipher13 · Feb 19, 2003, 11:13 PM

Subject says it all. It's getting real old, real fast. Temp IP/nick ban, maybe, as a warning.

yukon · Feb 19, 2003, 11:17 PM

or killing their post count

Simon · Feb 20, 2003, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Subject says it all. It's getting real old, real fast. Temp IP/nick ban, maybe, as a warning.

NO! IP ban is a stupid head-up-your-butt solution. Even if it's only temporary. Many people sit on broadband with DCHP or dial-up PPP with dynamic IPs. Banning IPs means punishing the wrong people.

If people do something illegal contact their ISP. If people don't behave ban their forum account. If people post for the sake of posting reduce their post count to zero.

But, NEVER ban IPs. I'm serious. Some months ago I got my IP banned because some idiot posted crap here and was on the same ISP as I was. I obviously got the IP he had used to post his junk and voila. It sucked. I had to do a remote ssh session to my work machine and use its mozilla with X-forwarding just to be able to log in here and talk with tooki. I hate IP banning. It doesn't solve squat because the banned guys just get a new IP (a simple cable modem reset will do most of the time) and it punishes innocent people.

Banning IPs is stupid.

IUJHJSDHE · Feb 23, 2003, 02:43 PM

I think ya should just set there post count to 0 again.

EDIT: oh, and change there title to "Post count whore" so it don't change anymore

gorgonzola · Feb 23, 2003, 04:35 PM

We've been thinking of making Lounge posts not count towards post counts, which means that the post count would just indicate level of involvement in the technical/support forums.

Thoughts?

Judge_Fire · Feb 23, 2003, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
We've been thinking of making Lounge posts not count towards post counts, which means that the post count would just indicate level of involvement in the technical/support forums.

Thoughts?

Nice idea, but then again it could drive up OT chatter inside threads. Still, I'd take that chance.

J

Simon · Feb 23, 2003, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
We've been thinking of making Lounge posts not count towards post counts, which means that the post count would just indicate level of involvement in the technical/support forums.

Thoughts?

Do it.

Cipher13 · Feb 24, 2003, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
NO! IP ban is a stupid head-up-your-butt solution. Even if it's only temporary. Many people sit on broadband with DCHP or dial-up PPP with dynamic IPs. Banning IPs means punishing the wrong people.

If people do something illegal contact their ISP. If people don't behave ban their forum account. If people post for the sake of posting reduce their post count to zero.

But, NEVER ban IPs. I'm serious. Some months ago I got my IP banned because some idiot posted crap here and was on the same ISP as I was. I obviously got the IP he had used to post his junk and voila. It sucked. I had to do a remote ssh session to my work machine and use its mozilla with X-forwarding just to be able to log in here and talk with tooki. I hate IP banning. It doesn't solve squat because the banned guys just get a new IP (a simple cable modem reset will do most of the time) and it punishes innocent people.

Banning IPs is stupid.

Very true, that is. Banning MAC ID's would be sweet.

Anybody who knew how to get past that pretty much deserves to get back on. Sigh.

gzl: if it can be done, then for sure.

And yeah - I reckon nuke +1'ers post counts.

scaught · Feb 24, 2003, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
We've been thinking of making Lounge posts not count towards post counts, which means that the post count would just indicate level of involvement in the technical/support forums.

Thoughts?

yup. sounds fine to me.

i dont think alot of people will be all for it though. see poll i posted a while back entitled are post counts important to you at all?.

well. 40% of the people will complain. a majority wouldnt care. if you were to retroactively take away lounge posts from peoples counts id be at like 7. heheh

dampeoples · Feb 24, 2003, 08:42 AM

Go for it, matter of fact, take the entire post count and star thing away.

Judge_Fire · Feb 25, 2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by dampeoples:
Go for it, matter of fact, take the entire post count and star thing away.

Well, the post count is a nice, though primitive way to communicate certain things, like dedication to a site. Watching my post count grow confirms my sense of belonging to a community, too.

More advanced things could be nice, like a Karma- type of profiling of posts and people, but OTOH, it adds bloat and isn't always fair.

Something unobtrusive and functional, that adds an information layer to the individual members. Hmm.

J

yukon · Feb 25, 2003, 11:41 PM

hmm, i like a karma idea. it does have a self-censoring effect ("better not say this, i'll lose good karma"). of course, as long as people can't quickly demolish random people's karma, and that people with terrible karma still have the same 'rights' as another user. maybe some immediate way to tell if someone has bad karma would be a good idea (so i don't have to read them), or atleast a suggestion not to reply to any trolling comments from someone with bad karma.

gorgonzola · Feb 26, 2003, 12:07 AM

Naw, rating users is pointless. There's no rhyme or reason to how people vote, and it's not a rational or useful gauge of someone's participation in the forums.

FWIW, we tried it before, a long time ago, and no one liked it. Just ended up turning all that stuff off.

One thing that may be interesting is *thread* ratings, however. We might look into that later when we have some free time.

gadster · Feb 26, 2003, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
Naw, rating users is pointless. There's no rhyme or reason to how people vote, and it's not a rational or useful gauge of someone's participation in the forums.

FWIW, we tried it before, a long time ago, and no one liked it. Just ended up turning all that stuff off.

One thing that may be interesting is *thread* ratings, however. We might look into that later when we have some free time.

A thread rating would be great. I have been trying to work out how to do that myself, but it's really difficult to come up with an algorithm that is meaningful (and easy to do mentally).

*Lots* of threads have almost exactly 1 reply per 10 views, so I have been using that as a rule of thumb. However, for threads with a small number of views, the ratio is obviously distorted.

Also, depending on how long the thread has been active, the view count is a measure of how interesting (or boring) the subject appears to be.

Furthermore, some threads spawn lots of short replies (like +1), so it might be useful to include the total word count as well.

As well, some threads degenerate into an argument between two or three people, so you need to take into account the number of unique posters per thread.

After all that, there is the challenge of how to present the rating. Do you use an open ended scale or a star rating or what?

It is a great concept, but it could be difficult to implement. Any mathematicians about?

dillerX · Feb 26, 2003, 09:25 AM

Love it. LOOOOOOVVVVVEEEE IT!

voodoo · Feb 26, 2003, 11:19 AM

Bleh. This is only so so. I think that the post count whore problem is a problem with certain individuals. They are few enough to be dealt with accordingly.

But, still... I am not entirely against this.

pliny · Feb 26, 2003, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
We've been thinking of making Lounge posts not count towards post counts, which means that the post count would just indicate level of involvement in the technical/support forums.

Thoughts?

Hmmm, good idea, let's try it.

The thread ratings idea is good too.

Doesn't Infopop software allow for thread ratings pretty easily? Has the site considered switching to Infopop? Just wondering, don't know what it would entail/if it is practical.

gorgonzola · Feb 26, 2003, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by gadster:
A thread rating would be great. I have been trying to work out how to do that myself, but it's really difficult to come up with an algorithm that is meaningful (and easy to do mentally).

*Lots* of threads have almost exactly 1 reply per 10 views, so I have been using that as a rule of thumb. However, for threads with a small number of views, the ratio is obviously distorted.

Also, depending on how long the thread has been active, the view count is a measure of how interesting (or boring) the subject appears to be.

Furthermore, some threads spawn lots of short replies (like +1), so it might be useful to include the total word count as well.

As well, some threads degenerate into an argument between two or three people, so you need to take into account the number of unique posters per thread.

After all that, there is the challenge of how to present the rating. Do you use an open ended scale or a star rating or what?

It is a great concept, but it could be difficult to implement. Any mathematicians about?

Er, you don't need that stuff. What I meant was just have a menu on the page that lets people rate it from 1-5. That's all thread rating is.

simonjames · Feb 26, 2003, 07:37 PM

I am all for a zero post count for lounge posting - it will certainly remove all of the +1 idiots

MacGorilla · Feb 26, 2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by simonjames:
I am all for a zero post count for lounge posting - it will certainly remove all of the +1 idiots

Like this?
+1
Oops, sorry

I like it. Should make the lounge a (little) less chaotic.

voodoo · Feb 26, 2003, 09:40 PM

+1

But seriously folks...

I am now against the +0 post thing in the Lounge. Completely.

Face Ache had a good idea. Keep the stars, hide tha posts. For everybody. Make a few more levels of stars maybe..

Demonhood · 11:10 PM

hmm, maybe.
how bout displaying the stars, the title, and then having post counts only available thru profiles, not on every post?

{clarification} posts everywhere would count towards stars/title/hidden postcount/fabulous prizes/respect in real life/sexual prowess/false promises/etc...

Timo · Feb 26, 2003, 10:53 PM

I think it's all or nothing: posts "count" everywhere or they don't.

Thunderous Funker's got some good points over in the (scoreless) Lounge.

I haven't really noticed a +1 problem ... why is this different than any other time? There's always an e.g. Powerbookdude type or John_G4 (can't remember his name) having a game of it -- it seems they've been well-dealt with before.

Thread ratings, OTOH, is a good idea.

pliny · Feb 27, 2003, 07:52 AM

Maybe the lounge mods should post a sticky "posting guidelines" or lounge FAQ to remain at the top of the forum.

Even better, a system wide posting guidelines link at the main forum page so that there are no questions about what might constitute "+1" posting in any forum/thread and what the "consequences" would be.

Posting guidelines are pretty common and it's high time MacNN posted some up and kept them up.

Stars/member post counts--I think the system works fine as it is. It's simple, straightforward, and fun.

The problem has been flooding posts in the lounge, not the way posters' counts are ranked.

Spliffdaddy · Feb 28, 2003, 08:28 AM

If anybody is worried about post counts....it's you guys.

just an observation.

Agent69 · Feb 28, 2003, 04:04 PM

I think things are fine like they are. Don't **** with what ain't broke.

gumby5647 · Mar 30, 2003, 02:43 PM

I like the Post counts in the profile idea. I think they are dumb and shouldn't be displayed anyways. Just have the name, title and stars.

BTW: how about some new titles? I'm "addicted to MacNN" yet I hardly post here anymore. (not since i found DCP

) just a thought

Cipher13 · Mar 30, 2003, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
If anybody is worried about post counts....it's you guys.

just an observation.

Err... yeah... that's why we want them to have a lesser significance...

Nice one, Dr. Spliff.

Zimphire · Mar 30, 2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Subject says it all. It's getting real old, real fast. Temp IP/nick ban, maybe, as a warning.

Oh come on now Cipher, how can you post a thread like this with a straight face?

scaught · Mar 30, 2003, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Oh come on now Cipher, how can you post a thread like this with a straight face?

you make twice as many posts as he does per day, mr laughy smiley.

Cipher13 · Mar 31, 2003, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Oh come on now Cipher, how can you post a thread like this with a straight face?

I play poker. :|

Zimphire · Mar 31, 2003, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by scaught:
you make twice as many posts as he does per day, mr laughy smiley.

Right I do NOW, but you don't get his post count, without being a "postwhore"

Not that it matters. I agree, we need to get rid of the post count. It's lame.

Originally posted by Cipher13:
I play poker. :|

Excellent answer

imaxxedout69 · Mar 31, 2003, 12:32 PM

If you guys do that "karma" crap could you just exclude me from it and give me a reading of 'satan incarnate' or something?

Thanks!

- $

Anomalous · Mar 31, 2003, 03:11 PM

I am glad that Lounge posts count again, and I hope it will stay that way. Some people are not technically advanced enough to participate heavily in the other forums. These people still deserve an opportunity to contribute to conversations and have their contribution recognized in their post count. The Lounge is such an opportunity.

Brien · Mar 31, 2003, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by imaxxedout69:
If you guys do that "karma" crap could you just exclude me from it and give me a reading of 'satan incarnate' or something?

Thanks!

- $

LOL!

But seriously, I like FaceAche's idea.