[Spliffdaddy]

I'm guessing nobody has a valid reason. The opportunity was given and no admin stepped up to the plate.

There were no rules violations - so we should assume that an admin disagreed with his viewpoint, lost his temper, and banned him?

That's what it looks like from here, folks.

[Ω]

I thought this was covered in another thread....

[Ω]

Here we go:

http://forums.macnn.com/61/feedback/260207/what-is-wrong-with-macnns-admins/

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Ω

I thought this was covered in another thread....

The question was asked several times, but no attempt was made to answer it. In an effort to keep from answering the question - the thread was locked.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Ω

Here we go:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=260207

Nope. The question went unanswered in that thread.

Even the guy who was banned has no clue as to why.

So what's he supposed to do differently the next time?

What lesson can WE learn from his banning?

Geez, at minimum I would expect an explanation for being banned.

Looks to me like it was an arbitrary abuse of authority. An attempt to squelch an opposing viewpoint.

[Ω]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Like it or not, the political forum is going to become a much more civil place. The trolling, flaming, and general overall nastiness is coming to an end, and to achieve that end some of the participants have been removed from that forum until they can prove they can debate a subject like adults, without spitting vitriol in the faces of all those with an opposing view point. That includes you. No matter what you'd like to believe, your being banned from the pol forum has nothing to do with your views, and everything to do with the manner in which you posted them.

We've given ample opportunity for people to behave and debate in an intelligent and adult manner, and some people have have chosen not to seize that opportunity, instead choosing to stifle all debate with their trolling and name calling.

And just so you know, your so called 'fascists' are banned from there as well. You aren't a victim here, so stop acting like one.

This to me explains it.....

[ManOfSteal]

Originally Posted by Ω

This to me explains it.....

Exactly.

[Randman]

I agree that a pm should be sent to the person banned. But for anyone else who wants to know? Tough. The mods shouldn't have to explain themselves or their actions to rubberneckers.

[loki74]

ibl!

Randman is right. Just everyone stop whining already!!

lockination in T minus...

[Zimphire]

When one side has people banned, they have to ban some from the "other side" so it doesn't make them look biased.

This happens in all forums it seems.

[OreoCookie]

Your arguments works both sides, did you notice

[turtle777]

IBL.

-t

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Your arguments works both sides, did you notice

Yes

[PacHead]

I'll try to look at the bright side of things. I still don't know why I've been banned from the PL, while people who've called me stupid, fascist, nazi etc. are still there, but hey, it's not my forum, and who am I to argue. I rarely engage in ad homimens, while a great majority of the replies to my posts have been ad hominems. Some admin just doesn't like me for whatever reason, that's my theory.

At least there's enough idiots around who start political topics in the regular lounge, so not much has changed I suppose. I'm just going to post some topic in the regular lounge, and I'll attach an "(not really political)" in the thread title, such as other people do.



Basically, if somebody wants to get me banned from the regular lounge also, then they can just call me an asshole, ****head, neoconnazi, dickwad, piece of ****, ****sucker. 10 minutes later, the admins will ban both the person who attacked me, and me.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Ω

This to me explains it.....

That explains what ?

Warung calls some people "fascists", so some admin bans warung and those he called "fascists" ?

So, if you have anymore weak arguments that you agree with, then feel free to post them.

MacNN rule number 567 section 2 - How to get PacHead banned - Just call him a bunch of names and engage in ad hominems, the rest will take care of itself.

[PacHead]

And thanks to Spliffdaddy for starting the thread !

I know that you guys (the righteous, truthful, good side), will fight the good fight, and I'll soon be back to join you all.

The terrorists at Gitmo get better treatment than I do here.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PacHead

\Basically, if somebody wants to get me banned from the regular lounge also, then they can just call me an asshole, ****head, neoconnazi, dickwad, piece of ****, ****sucker. 10 minutes later, the admins will ban both the person who attacked me, and me.

You basically got it right.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Warung calls some people "fascists", so some admin bans warung and those he called "fascists" ?

He is working on getting himself banned from the lounge as well.

[JHromadka]

[loki74]

hmm... I wonder if this will work much like the last time it did....

[Kevin]

Hmm.. guess not.

Lets try doing a ceremonial lock dance.

[PacHead]

[Kevin]

[Spliffdaddy]

.......and the question remains unanswered.

Because I already told you what happened in the very first post.

yay for me.

[Kevin]

Spliff no, when banning someone they have to also ban another person from "The other side"

That way no one can say "OMG ALL THE MODS MUST BE LIBERAL TREE HUGGERS" or some sort.

This way the mods can say "Such and such was banned too, look! no favoritism or bias"

This is called silencing one, in order to silence many.

[ThinkInsane]

Spliff, you got it all wrong buddy. Not one person that was banned was innocent of trolling, flaming, and several other violations of the rules and TOS. It had nothing to do with 'sides', because I'm the one that got pissed about the general nastiness and asked for a clean up, and as you know, I'm a registered Republican- albeit a moderate one.

This wasn't about people's politics. You can be a life long supporter of LaRouche and I wouldn't give a damn. It was about how people were reacting to one another, about the complete and total cesspool that forum has become, and attempting to rein it back in before the whole thing got locked and achieved. It was about getting back to the point where people could have a decent discussion about divisive topics without the usual suspects starting the same old tired ********. It was about having a little bit of respect for the views of others, even if you don't agree with those views. I have no idea how to be any more frank about it than that. There is no grand conspiracy. They guy that got his panties in a knot was the guy from your own party. I JUST GOT SICK OF OTHERWISE INTELLEGANT ADULTS BEHAVING LIKE PETULANT CHILDREN. Does that clear up any misconceptions about what happened?

[Ω]

TI,

I think they are worried that you have been converted to "The Left".

[Kevin]

Naw I am just pokin fun

[Ω]

Originally Posted by KevinK

Naw I am just pokin fun

And I am determined to be be "green" before you!

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

It was about having a little bit of respect for the views of others, even if you don't agree with those views.

And I agree ! I support the banning of all people who use ad hominems and violate the rules !
(here's just a few I found, and these are only the most recent postings (1-50 out of 500). I could post tons more, but don't worry I won't.

nath:
I'm afraid I'll have to leave it there, as you're just way too stupid to converse with for any length of time

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political-war-lounge/258421/the-netherlands-say-no-european-constitution/

yoyo
As much as I think Pachead is the dumbest piece of crap to hit this board in a long time, he's dead right.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ge=2&pp=50

analogika:
And PacHead is at heel, as usual, to applaud ignorance where it shows up.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ge=2&pp=50

Von Wrangell:
My answer? My answer is that I know a racist when I see one. That's racism. He can try to hide it, just like Zimphire and Pachead

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ge=3&pp=50

kerrigan:
More rubbish from PacHead... Judging from his posts, it's not clear if he's ever read a book on Europe, or anything else for that matter.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hlight=pachead

warung:
I've always said it,- the only difference between radical muslim terrorists and right wing neonazicons is the degree of technological advancement.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ge=4&pp=50

analogika:
PacHead, you are (along with that Matt margolis guy who used to frequent these forums) one of the few truly stupid people I have ever encountered.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hlight=pachead

Svass:
Quit defending PacHead and Macrobat! They are assholes! sam

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hlight=pachead

stradlater:
PacHead, for the most part, you're a bigot, and you continue to be one. Why don't you learn something from these counterarguments, even if just once in awhile?

I haven't done anything worse than some of those comments posted above. I've never called anybody an asshole or something similiar for example, but oh well, the rules only apply to certain people I suppose.

This post took me 10 minutes to write, and this will be the last argument I will mount in my defense. If I am so bad, apparently much, much worse than anybody else who constantly attacks me in the cesspool known as the PL, then I wish the PL good luck, and I'm sure it's a nice, friendly , loveable place now, especially since "troublemakers" such as myself are gone from there.

I also see that rule number 9 has now been changed in the PL:

06-23-2005, 02:10 AM

The 9th rule has been changed.
It's an important one.

So basically, the Sherlock Holmes inside of me says that I was banned for no clear reason, and then the rules were changed after the fact inorder to perhaps justify my banning. Just an observation.




If you feel I should be banned then fine, I won't argue the issue anymore, but don't pretend to be fair, when the rules clearly apply differently to different people, that's all I'm saying.

[BlueSky]

Pac was banned for using the words "ad hominems" ad infinitum.

[Kevin]

Pachead they don't ban people for making personal attacks. It's those who make personal attacks, and get reported by the MOST people that gets banned. AKA

"We have had a lot of complaints about you lately"

It's to silence the squeaky wheels. They are sick of hearing the complaints, so instead of taking care of it, they just ban the people they think will stop the hissing and honking.

No matter who deserves it as well.

And you are right. All of the people that you have on your list deserve to be banned as well.

All of them are also repeat offenders, and are still doing it as we speak.

That never made sense to me.

And the mods shouldn't be banning people just to "calm things down" (Can't deny you haven't done that)

There always has been knee-jerk modding going on in the PL.

Either side knows all they have to do is get a handful of people to report or bitch about one specific person to get them banned. No matter if they were doing the very same thing.

If the mods are sick of the way people are acting in the PL (Been the same since it's inception) then it just needs gotten rid of.

And if certain people can't help but start political or religious flame baits in the lounge constantly, they should be gotten rid of.

Simple solution.

[Randman]

I think Pachead is showing in this thread why he needed a time out.

[Kevin]

Randman he has a point. There was people in the PL that was and still are being just as bad, or worse than him. But nothing was done about it. THAT is why problems keep reoccurring.

Don't you think that is a bit odd?

I mean I myself have been told I was banned "Just to keep things quit for awhile"

That is silly.

[Randman]

At first I thought he shouldn't have been. But it's not the end of the world. Serve out the suspension and come back.

Whenever there's a fight, it's always the kid throwing the second punch that gets busted. In most sports, if there's a fight, everyone involvedin any manner is throw out of the game.

Yes, those others are trolls and flamebaiters. But bitching about something that is likely not to change isn't going to do any good. And it comes across as sour grapes.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Randman

At first I thought he shouldn't have been. But it's not the end of the world. Serve out the suspension and come back.

Right, but it is kinda frustrating when it happens to you. Esp when certain people are acting 10x worse than you are, and they don't get banned. Why? not as many complaints (gang rules)

Whenever there's a fight, it's always the kid throwing the second punch that gets busted. In most sports, if there's a fight, everyone involvedin any manner is throw out of the game.

Yes, but when these fights keep happening, one should find who is usually STARTING them and get rid of them. Doing that usually stops someone punching back. Because there will be not as many punches being thrown first.

Yes, those others are trolls and flamebaiters. But bitching about something that is likely not to change isn't going to do any good. And it comes across as sour grapes.

Obviously it DOES do good. Because the people that are being banned are usually the ones being bitched about the most.

That doesn't mean they are being the worst, that just means that a group has gotten together and decided to get that person banned.

As a reference. von whateverhisnameis asked me personally if Pac and a few others had asked me to try to get him banned.

As if that was a norm-legitimate question. Something that goes on a lot.

Well it has never happen to me or by me. But obviously SOME PEOPLE are doing it, or certain people wouldn't be paranoid that it is getting done to them.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by KevinK

Right, but it is kinda frustrating when it happens to you. Esp when certain people are acting 10x worse than you are, and they don't get banned. Why? not as many complaints (gang rules)

Do you think the mods are omnipotent? Of course the people who get the most complaints are going to be the ones booted first. They're the ones the mods see misbehaving the most.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Do you think the mods are omnipotent? Of course the people who get the most complaints are going to be the ones booted first. They're the ones the mods see misbehaving the most.

No, it's not ones they are seeing, it's ones that are being complained by most.

Say Oscar calls someone an asshole. One person reports him.

The next day, BigBird calls someone an asshole. 6 people report him.

Who do you think is getting banned?

They ban to quiet the "annoying reports"

They have banned to quiet things down. Not for breaking rules. Because as pachead has shown, many other people have broken the rules MANY TIMES and they aren't banned.

People know this. So when certain groups see something they don't like, they msg their friends to all report that person and throw fits an threaten to leave forever if something isn't done.

Instead of telling these people to get lost, they are appeased. Just to get them to shut up.

Usually however the mods will pic a person from the other side also as a token baninition to show they aren't picking sides.

I don't think anyone gets banned for their views. Not anymore atleast.

And that is fine. This is their forum to do so. But they shouldn't really act like that isn't the case.

[demograph68]

[scaught]

Originally Posted by demograph68

quoted for emphasis.

i wonder why i hang out here at all anymore. this place certainly isnt a community i feel much affinity for, not like i used to anyway.

[Kevin]

It hasn't been the same since the anti-Bush/America/Jesus zealots took over.

You know, the ones that caused the PL forum to be created in the first place.

[loki74]

KevinK/scaught ...I would tend to agree with you guys. Though there are a few conservatives/reasonable people here, who really kind of make it up. Its nice to have someone who agrees with you.

Bluesky: still doesn't answer his question.

ad hom·i·nem adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.

Is that so bad compared with nazi, fascist, asshole, bigot, etc? It seems to me that we are searching for a reason-any reason-that makes PacHead a "bad person," or a flamer. I've yet to see any flame from him myself, and havent seen anyone here cite him flaming.

That being said, I think that this is probably the wrong way about getting what you want done. I dont think the question should be why was PacHead banned from the PL, but why were not all those other people banned. Also, it would probably better to go straight to the mods about it. They seem for the most part reasonable, and (hopefully) in the future may just ban off those jerks who are attacking you.

Also, Randman does make a good point. Though the reasons for the ban may feel unfair, it is only temporary, and limited to the PL. There are definately worse things that can happen, and comlaining about any kind of punishment, esp. light punishment, well, doesnt look good, no matter how right you are.

[Ω]

Originally Posted by loki74

Is that so bad compared with nazi, fascist, asshole, bigot, etc? It seems to me that we are searching for a reason-any reason-that makes PacHead a "bad person," or a flamer. I've yet to see any flame from him myself, and havent seen anyone here cite him flaming.

I suggest you do a search. Seems to be he has a beef with people in Europe.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Ω

I suggest you do a search. Seems to be he has a beef with people in Europe.

Actually that is a bit dishonest don't you think?

I would go into specifics and say that Anti-American zealots in Europe that he has a problem with.

The ones that calls him a nazi and such.

[Ω]

Originally Posted by KevinK

Actually that is a bit dishonest don't you think?

Not at all.

[Kevin]

Could you point out examples then? Hey I could be very well wrong. He could very well made blanket statements.

The ones I have seen have targeted SPECIFIC Europeans.

The ones making asses out of themselves.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Spliff, you got it all wrong buddy. Not one person that was banned was innocent of trolling, flaming, and several other violations of the rules and TOS. It had nothing to do with 'sides', because I'm the one that got pissed about the general nastiness and asked for a clean up, and as you know, I'm a registered Republican- albeit a moderate one.

This wasn't about people's politics. You can be a life long supporter of LaRouche and I wouldn't give a damn. It was about how people were reacting to one another, about the complete and total cesspool that forum has become, and attempting to rein it back in before the whole thing got locked and achieved. It was about getting back to the point where people could have a decent discussion about divisive topics without the usual suspects starting the same old tired ********. It was about having a little bit of respect for the views of others, even if you don't agree with those views. I have no idea how to be any more frank about it than that. There is no grand conspiracy. They guy that got his panties in a knot was the guy from your own party. I JUST GOT SICK OF OTHERWISE INTELLEGANT ADULTS BEHAVING LIKE PETULANT CHILDREN. Does that clear up any misconceptions about what happened?

That is what politics is about, if you cant handle it perhaps you should remove yourself from there and get some one else to mod it. I have NEVER seen a politics forum that was civil, infact I think the MacNN one is the most civil one I post on which is why I spend more time there on politics then other forums. I dont see it broke, I see it working just right. Wasent that the reason it was created as a seperate section to keep that stuff off the main lounge.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by Athens

Wasent that the reason it was created as a seperate section to keep that stuff off the main lounge.

Wasn't, not wasent. And separate not seperate.


Nitpicking aside, the political garbage tends to overflow into every forum, even the non-lounge ones.

[Kevin]

I recently did some reporting of about 5 personal attacks from one person today on me a lone. (this person has a history of doing so and has been banned before)

If they get banned, then this thread should be closed.

If said person doesn't, Pachead indeed has a point.

[Randman]

Maybe make it so you have to be green to post in the political forum.