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Eug Wanker · Sep 5, 2005, 11:56 AM

Just wondering, why not? It seems that reregistration is all that is needed to circumvent a ban. Is that correct?

I can see cutting people a bit a slack the first couple of bans, but it seems odd to have people banned 5 times just to have them show up again a few days later.

Or are these people just put on vacation? My guess is no, since they have to reregister, with a different name. Or are there different levels of bans?

Railroader · Sep 5, 2005, 01:40 PM

I support this.

If I were banned and not reinstated I would get the hint and move along. I can tell when I'm not wanted.

Lateralus · Sep 5, 2005, 02:51 PM

Problem is that some people have dynamic IPs, so we can't do an IP ban. Which is really the only way to keep somebody from continually registering new aliases.

Kevin · Sep 5, 2005, 03:31 PM

You can spoof you MAC address, and your ISP will give you a new IP. You can also use proxies.

Not that I would know anything about that.

iLikebeer · Sep 6, 2005, 04:00 AM

What about making their user experience suck?
If they won't stay banned, let them keep a name.
-Only allow them to post once every 10 minutes or view so many threads in a given time period.
-Restrict the amount of bandwidth some people get when logged in so it takes forever for pictures and whatnot to load.
-Make a list of banned people and put them on a list, user accounts default to having that list on auto-ignore and maybe no option to delete from that list.
-Require 50 good posts and a 1 week wait on all new members before they are allowed to post in the lounge.
I don't know if any of that is possible or not.

Do you ever contact their ISPs, or do they just not care?
Don't know, i'm bored and it's an interesting problem.

Kevin · Sep 6, 2005, 05:59 AM

ISPs don't care. And there is always a way to get around all of what you described. IMHO.

Railroader · Sep 6, 2005, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Problem is that some people have dynamic IPs, so we can't do an IP ban. Which is really the only way to keep somebody from continually registering new aliases.

Then just keep banning them when you see them with a new nick.

Look at the way Rob is responding to Budster101. It's pathetic. Sure Budster is prodding him a little, but Rob is flying off the handle using profanity and calling him every name in the book. It's disgusting to watch and I'm sure it drives a lot of good people away.

Randman · Sep 6, 2005, 06:55 AM

Put both on the ignore list and all is fine.

Railroader · Sep 6, 2005, 07:41 AM

Obviously, it doesn't bother me enough to leave permanently, but other good people might simply look around and decide not to stay. But then, if enough people going to say they are fine with that, then I will have to reassess my continuing to stick around.

I like Budster's posts. He usually hits the nail right now the head. He's quite insightful if not a little inciteful.

Weyland-Yutani · Sep 6, 2005, 08:24 AM

This is quite simply the worst administered forum I frequent. It is the best Mac forum so it isn't all bad but the mods in the tech forums (OS and Apps et al) have let them degenerate into a semi-lounge where technical discussions are allowed to involve name calling and digressions that ruin the thread.

And what do they do then? Lock it. They can't be bothered to clean the thread, delete the irrelevant and inappropriate posts and warn/ban those who derailed it.

No it isn't a lot of work, as this doesn't happen all the time but if the current mods can't do it, then I can. Raising the level of the tech forums is very necessary, because they are the main attraction here. The lounge is a side-show.

cheers

W-Y

LilWolfChokingOnCigs68 · Sep 6, 2005, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Then just keep banning them when you see them with a new nick.

Look at the way Rob is responding to Budster101. It's pathetic. Sure Budster is prodding him a little, but Rob is flying off the handle using profanity and calling him every name in the book. It's disgusting to watch and I'm sure it drives a lot of good people away.

Perhaps if the mods did their ****ing job and got budster to QUIT picking fights with me, then I wouldn't be responding him. I can see how you would fail to understand that though.

Kevin · Sep 6, 2005, 08:45 AM

Rob you don't play the innocent victim very well.

budster101 · Sep 6, 2005, 08:46 AM

Funny, If I was on ignore, how would he know anything that I posted?

I think everyone understands you all too well.

LilWolfChokingOnCigs68 · Sep 6, 2005, 08:51 AM

I'm not playing an innocent victim, it's just that they only ever ban me. Ban budster? Nope. Ban anyone else who's trying to pick fights with me? Nope. Just me.

LilWolfChokingOnCigs68 · Sep 6, 2005, 08:52 AM

I'm sure that was something nice from Budster also. What a swell guy.

turtle777 · Sep 6, 2005, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Randman

Put both on the ignore list and all is fine.

Or, MacNN could put Rob in a GLOBAL ignore list, effective for every user.
Only Rob wouldn't know. He might wonder why nobody ever replies to his posts though

-t

Kevin · Sep 6, 2005, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

I'm not playing an innocent victim, it's just that they only ever ban me. Ban budster? Nope. Ban anyone else who's trying to pick fights with me? Nope. Just me.

If you go up and punch someone in the face, and they punch you back in defense, are both people equally to blame?

scaught · Sep 6, 2005, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

I'm not playing an innocent victim, it's just that they only ever ban me. Ban budster? Nope. Ban anyone else who's trying to pick fights with me? Nope. Just me.

you say youre not playing innocent victim, then go on to basically define "innocent victim".

priceless.

LilWolfChokingOnCigs68 · Sep 6, 2005, 10:49 AM

I'm not innocent. I break rules. I fight back. Sometimes I pick fights. So yeah, maybe I cross the line and deserve to be banned SOMETIMES.

But why is it that other people who repeatedly pick fights and start flamewars are NEVER banned? It seems that the moderators will not ban anybody if they have more than 500 posts, except me.

Railroader · Sep 6, 2005, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Or, MacNN could put Rob in a GLOBAL ignore list, effective for every user.
Only Rob wouldn't know. He might wonder why nobody ever replies to his posts though

-t

That would be AWESOME! And hilarious. I doubt Rob would even notice.

p.s. He's gone for now again. Starting the countdown timer until he doesn't take the hint and has a new username and is posting on here once again 10... 9... 8...

rickey939 · Sep 6, 2005, 02:13 PM

budster101 · Sep 6, 2005, 02:16 PM

Betcha he has something clever in the screen name like:

ih8b1u0d168

Kevin · Sep 6, 2005, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

I'm not innocent. I break rules. I fight back. Sometimes I pick fights. So yeah, maybe I cross the line and deserve to be banned SOMETIMES.

But why is it that other people who repeatedly pick fights and start flamewars are NEVER banned? It seems that the moderators will not ban anybody if they have more than 500 posts, except me.

Yeah.. and I have learned to accept that, and not care anymore. MacNN is alot more fun when you don't take it so seriously I have learned.

Another thing I learned. If someone is flaming you, and you report them, and then reply to the flame and flame them back, the mods will ignore the report. If you report the flame against you, and don't reply to it, you are more than likely to get the response you are looking for.

ReggieX · Sep 6, 2005, 03:59 PM

Just use the Ignore list, and keep on truckin'

Lateralus · 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

This is quite simply the worst administered forum I frequent. It is the best Mac forum so it isn't all bad but the mods in the tech forums (OS and Apps et al) have let them degenerate into a semi-lounge where technical discussions are allowed to involve name calling and digressions that ruin the thread.

And what do they do then? Lock it. They can't be bothered to clean the thread, delete the irrelevant and inappropriate posts and warn/ban those who derailed it.

No it isn't a lot of work, as this doesn't happen all the time but if the current mods can't do it, then I can. Raising the level of the tech forums is very necessary, because they are the main attraction here. The lounge is a side-show.

cheers

W-Y

*Yawn*

This place is run by a bunch of volunteers, all of which have things to do on the side. Whether it be school and work, or work and family. Nobody here is paid.

Nothing about this job is particulary fun, either. There's nothing fun about responding to frantic private messagess sent in anger by people involed in an argument or having the inbox of your personal e-mail account filled with reported post notifications and spam notifications every day. And regardless of what some people think, we don't get a high from locking threads. We all volunteer for this because we enjoy the forums a good bit and don't mind playing cops every now and then to keep it enjoyable.

You also contradicted yourself. This forum is clean and mature because it is kept clean and mature. The forum exists in between some pretty well defined barriers and rules, and because they're so well defined and enforced they're rarely violated. Martial law isn't necessary like it is at many other forums. We have a mature audience for the most part.

OreoCookie · Sep 6, 2005, 05:47 PM

I think discussions manage themselves mostly. I don't believe in deleting/editing posts unless absolutely necessary. And to be honest W-Y, you've done your fair share to escalate a few threads. If you want the forums to shift in another direction, more technical discussions, less Lounge, then contribute, or rather not contribute to those threads you dislike.

ThinkInsane · Sep 6, 2005, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

Perhaps if the mods did their ****ing job and got budster to QUIT picking fights with me, then I wouldn't be responding him. I can see how you would fail to understand that though.

You blame everyone but yourself for getting banned, Robert, but it all comes back to you and how you behave. That screen name you posted from above, which finally got banned? I asked for that to be banned the day you registered it. Why? Because it was directly related to the offending post that got your previous name banned. That's nothing to do with anyone but you.

I get you banned all the time, and I will continue to do so until you stop acting like a pissed off 13 year old and start acting like an adult. Talking to you on IM is a completely different experience than your public persona. You are a great guy to talk to when there isn't an audience. Why is that? The kiddies might like your 'rebel without a clue' attitude, but most of the adults around here do not. Guess which group is more likely to get catered too...

tooki · Sep 6, 2005, 07:58 PM

As for global auto-ignore. It doesn't take long for someone to catch on. All they have to do is forget to log in with their username one day and they notice. 12 hours, tops.

As for Budster: he's just as bad and belligerent as you, rob. We've never been able to control you effectively, have we? The same goes for others. FWIW, I warned him sternly to stop picking fights with you. Am I correct to assume it's not helped?

tooki

Kevin · Sep 6, 2005, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Talking to you on IM is a completely different experience than your public persona. You are a great guy to talk to when there isn't an audience. Why is that?

I've noticed that too.

Eug Wanker · Sep 6, 2005, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Problem is that some people have dynamic IPs, so we can't do an IP ban. Which is really the only way to keep somebody from continually registering new aliases.

Good point. I forgot about that. (OTOH, some people do have static IPs.)

BasketofPuppies · Sep 7, 2005, 02:23 AM

Another forum I visit rarely permanently bans a user name but instead bans it for a set period of time. It's effective in preventing people from acting like jerks.

Have the administrators thought about doing that here? (And that way, an IP ban would work without banning the entire Internet.)

Kevin · Sep 7, 2005, 07:14 AM

That is what they do. They ban you for a set period of time. If within that time, you don't cause problems, you get your account back.

Truth is, if someone really wants to be a jerk, there is no way you can perm ban them. Unless MacNN closes off the feature to register new accounts.

BasketofPuppies · Sep 7, 2005, 09:49 AM

Then how come they haven't unbanninated any of my joke accounts?

Kevin · Sep 7, 2005, 12:14 PM

BasketofPuppies you have one account. If you get banned in that account you can have it back if you don't post during your bannination.

If you have more than one account, and one of them gets banned, and you keep posting using the other one, that other will likely stay banned.

Now, that is just a hunch.

Not that I have ever had any experience in the matter.

I should write a book "MacNN You're BANNED!, so now what?"

Weyland-Yutani · Sep 7, 2005, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

You also contradicted yourself. This forum is clean and mature because it is kept clean and mature.

Indeed, perhaps you'd like to show me where I contradicted myseld and the latter sentance just makes me

You crack me up. The moderation in the tech forums are a bad bad joke.

cheers

W-Y

Weyland-Yutani · Sep 7, 2005, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I think discussions manage themselves mostly. I don't believe in deleting/editing posts unless absolutely necessary. And to be honest W-Y, you've done your fair share to escalate a few threads. If you want the forums to shift in another direction, more technical discussions, less Lounge, then contribute, or rather not contribute to those threads you dislike.

Escalation does not equal name calling and breaking forum rules. Everyone has found himself escelating a discussion in the tech forums - especially when the discussion is about UI which is arguably a matter of taste over hardcore science, but I have never ever broken the forum rules. They are broken by others frequently and well, you mods don't really do anything about it.

The feedback is usually deflected by "I'm just volunteering".. well, volunteering or not, you aren't immune to criticism. Constructive criticism, of course.

happy moderating

cheers

W-Y

BasketofPuppies · Sep 7, 2005, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

BasketofPuppies you have one account. If you get banned in that account you can have it back if you don't post during your bannination.

If you have more than one account, and one of them gets banned, and you keep posting using the other one, that other will likely stay banned.

In which case, I really like the idea of temporary IP bans.

Kevin · Sep 7, 2005, 10:07 PM

It's only temp if you follow the rules. Otherwise the account stays banned.

BasketofPuppies · Sep 7, 2005, 10:57 PM

Yes, the account. But considering how easy it is to register a new account, it's pointless.

Kevin · Sep 8, 2005, 06:26 AM

Basked, take me for example. I wanted to keep this particular nick.

If I wanted it back, I would have to obey the rules.

If you don't care about said nick, it shouldn't matter if it's banned.

If it does matter, and you wanted them to unban your "joke accounts" , then I guess the rules should have been followed?

Ask a mod. I am not sure.

Athens · Sep 8, 2005, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies

Yes, the account. But considering how easy it is to register a new account, it's pointless.

The only options Admins have is to block the IP which will change sooner or later. People can get past this by forcing a IP change, or Proxy Servers.

Other option is to block out a range of IP's, but this wont stop Proxy Servers and can block innocent people as well.

They can install a Proxy Server block on the MacNN server which will eliminate the Proxy issue, but some people have no choice but to use a proxy from the ISP. There use to be a list like the IBL's to block free proxy's but I would have to talk to my Server administrator about that.

Only other option for mods is to not allow self registration. When some one registers they cant post until a Mod approves it. This creates MUCH work for them and could hurt membership of new people that just never come back.

So basically the mods hands are tied. The problem of a public board. I personally think the free proxy block list would be a good idea, along with blocking free email addresses for registration. Make it manditory to use only ISP/Domain email addresses, no Yahoo, no hotmail so forth.

turtle777 · Sep 8, 2005, 10:24 AM

Ok, [rant]

WTF is it that the mods and admins blame it on changing IP numbers that they can't effectively control Rob ?

Bullsh!t !

Everytime he uses a different nick, it is obvious from the get go that it is Rob again. Come on, be honest, you don't really want to get rid of him. You just let him do his thing.

Deleting a newly created account should be only a matter of seconds. So if you wanted, you could have MUCH MORE control over Rob than you exercise. But please, spare us the whining that changing IP addresses make tight control so hard or impossible. Bla !

[/rant]

-t

Randman · Sep 8, 2005, 10:30 AM

In Rob's defense, he does get baited quite often. It's his own fault for falling for it but he's not the only one.

Personally, I can take or leave his posts. The ones who are annoying are the ones who pollute the normal Mac threads with lounge-like garbage. And I don't mean here and there cuz we all do that. I mean 100% useless.

budster101 · Sep 8, 2005, 10:41 AM

I wish I could defend Rob, but he starts 90 percent of the crap in threads and derails him with is hangups. It's hard to ignore sometimes because one feels the need to put him in his place, which of course just fuels his fire. It's almost a sport in here, which is why, I think he is allowed to get up to 200 posts in his alias accounts until he gets the hammer. Or maybe it's like this.

"How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll lollipop?"

A one hundred?
A two hundred?
A crunch...

Randman · Sep 8, 2005, 10:43 AM

If you put him on your ignore list, you wouldn't have to worry about anything.

budster101 · Sep 8, 2005, 10:53 AM

ignore lists are for weenies and Rob. Wait. Same thing. The problem that is seriously wrong with ignore lists are not everyone does it so they eventually respond and quote him. Then you see his post, and it usually isn't appropriate.

Like I said, it's almost a sport in here. In a weird way, I miss him. I'd get over it though. The dude has some serious anger issues, and he knows how to push buttons in some people. I'm one. He's made things personal, and I won't forget that. I was told by tooki that his threatening nature and comments about the life of my family was silly and get over it, this is the internet. I'm sorry, but when someone says they wish my family would die in a tragic accident in one week, I take it a bit more serious than a moderator in here I guess...

Hey, it's just the internet right?

Weyland-Yutani · Sep 8, 2005, 04:19 PM

A) We should have a Respected Users system

B) Why the heck are only the Lounge threads ratable??

cheers

W-Y

Athens · Sep 8, 2005, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Ok, [rant]

WTF is it that the mods and admins blame it on changing IP numbers that they can't effectively control Rob ?

Bullsh!t !

Everytime he uses a different nick, it is obvious from the get go that it is Rob again. Come on, be honest, you don't really want to get rid of him. You just let him do his thing.

Deleting a newly created account should be only a matter of seconds. So if you wanted, you could have MUCH MORE control over Rob than you exercise. But please, spare us the whining that changing IP addresses make tight control so hard or impossible. Bla !

[/rant]

-t

Is it worth risking banning a dozen innocent people? Mods cant be watching the forum every minute to see every new member which can be dozens a hour some times. Only effective thing they can do is not allow self registration. But thats a hell of a lot more work for them. Banning free Email addresses would take care of him. You block his email address, unless he keeps buying email addresses hes not coming back.

Athens · Sep 8, 2005, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

If you put him on your ignore list, you wouldn't have to worry about anything.

That and he keeps getting banned, which means having to reblock his new nicks what once a week

tooki · Sep 8, 2005, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Ok, [rant]

WTF is it that the mods and admins blame it on changing IP numbers that they can't effectively control Rob ?

Bullsh!t !

Everytime he uses a different nick, it is obvious from the get go that it is Rob again. Come on, be honest, you don't really want to get rid of him. You just let him do his thing.

Deleting a newly created account should be only a matter of seconds. So if you wanted, you could have MUCH MORE control over Rob than you exercise. But please, spare us the whining that changing IP addresses make tight control so hard or impossible. Bla !

[/rant]

-t

You seem to have forgotten what happened the last time we tried that. Sorry, but we're not doing that again.

tooki