[SuvsareRetarded]

FINALLY +1 is against the rules! HAHahhahAhaHah. Awesome. Depending on how things are enforced it could make this place loads better.

[ort888]

Aren't you also against the rules? Why are you still here?

[SuvsareRetarded]

Occasionally. I don't +1 though.

[BlueSky]

Don't post nonsense threads, +1 posts, or anything else with no semantic value.

No "semantic value". Well THAT clears things up.

[tooki]

Dictionary.app?

Hopefully this should clear up a lot of the misunderstandings about what is and isn't permissible, and give n00bs a place we can point them to when they ask why their thread was closed, or why they were flamed.

Oh, and check the rules again now. I added some stuff in the last 1/2 hour.

tooki

[tooki]

Moved to Feedback, where this belongs...

I guess you didn't actually read the posting guidelines, didja rob!

tooki

[BasketofPuppies]

This place isn't any fun without nonsense threads.

Of course, this doesn't explain why tooki participated in my football thread.

[tooki]

If a thread, despite being silly, can result in amusing discussion, it's OK.

If it's just mental sewage, like +1 threads or the bee/ant/sea/tea threads, no, it has no place here.

tooki

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by tooki

Hopefully this should clear up a lot of the misunderstandings about what is and isn't permissible

Well hmm actually no. If I have to start thinking about 'significant meaning' in my posts, I may need a yardstick. Come to think of it, why is it called a yardstick? We use them for so much more than measuring yards these days. In fact my gf uses one often because she says tape measures are "too curly". So I vote we call them bizonfricators.

I am in search of a bizonfricator for my postage, precision in measurement is lacking.


The Bee thread was great, I gave only factual responses.

[SuvsareRetarded]

I put it in the lounge because it was a comment pertaining to the lounge's new rules, and I hoped people would see it and comment on it. Now it's in the feedback forum, and I expect a lot of people to never read the new rules because I doubt they'll notice them.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by tooki

If it's just mental sewage, like +1 threads or the bee/ant/sea/tea threads, no, it has no place here.

One man's mental sewage is another's precise encapsulated pixie dust. Seriously.

[starman]

There are already 5 threads in the lounge that violate the new rules.

[tooki]

Update: a few more things added, concerning:

-requests for private replies
-bickering
-piracy
-terms of service
-uniformity of enforcement

tooki

[starman]

Re: "adult content"

So what happens to the "hot babes" thread?

[tooki]

Well, last time i checked, it only had bathing suits, nothing naked.

Besides, nudity per se doesn't make something pornographic. I don't think any of us are gonna remove nude art.

tooki

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by tooki

Besides, nudity per se doesn't make something pornographic. I don't think any of us are gonna remove nude art.

Preserved for posterity. And posteriors.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by tooki

If a thread, despite being silly, can result in amusing discussion, it's OK.

If it's just mental sewage, like +1 threads or the bee/ant/sea/tea threads, no, it has no place here.

tooki

Why isn't this put explicitly i the rules?

What do you mean by "mental sewage"?

Why is it so difficult to define and explain plainly concepts? Why use metaphors that are highly interpretable??

In the end, in turns into a "you or me " debate, and clarifies nothing.

I understand the concept of "+1", but I also know that posters turn good threads in "+1", without even puting anything related to the topic, other than "+1".

I am not trying to be difficult here. I am trying to have a better understanding.

[tooki]

If we really need to, we can clarify more, but it seems pretty clear to me.

As for "you vs me" -- see, now that's why I like this section of the rules:

Remember that moderators and administrators have the final say on any moderation decision, including the right to close, rename, or delete any thread, or edit or delete any post, for any reason. While the action will generally be explained, this explanation is voluntary and may not be provided, even upon request.

What that means is that here on the forums, we win.

tooki

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by tooki

If we really need to, we can clarify more, but it seems pretty clear to me.

As for "you vs me" -- see, now that's why I like this section of the rules:

What that means is that here on the forums, we win.

tooki

Well, I understood that for some time already, and that is sad.

I believe I was right in asking a clarification in the first place. I was polite, and did not get an answer. I am asking again for a clarification that goes beyond the use of a metaphor.

But yes, you are right, it is my choice to live under your type of ruling or not. It is clear that I am walking close to banination at this time, simply for asking clarification.

Thank you for your answer.

[tooki]

We don't ban people for asking. We ban people for repeatedly and willingly breaking the rules.

tooki

[Demonhood]

i don't think there's a way to be explicit about "silly" or "nonsense" threads.
it's always open to interpretation.

my own rule has always been to shut down threads that have no purpose and are either not entertaining or are amusing only to a handful of people that just like to piss off other members by posting drivel. sometimes you can tell a thread will be garbage in the first few posts. sometimes it develops into something really amusing. it varies too much for a hard and fast rule. in my opinion.

[tooki]

Exactly.

tooki

[BasketofPuppies]

In other words, if the moderators find it amusing, it stays.

Seriously, I don't see the difference between my football thread and the ant thread. They were both pointless and got a lot of silly replies, but the ant thread was deleted and my football thread is still here.

[starman]

I still don't see why the Oscar/Felix thread was locked. It would be interesting to see how people relate.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Demonhood

i don't think there's a way to be explicit about "silly" or "nonsense" threads.
it's always open to interpretation.

my own rule has always been to shut down threads that have no purpose and are either not entertaining or are amusing only to a handful of people that just like to piss off other members by posting drivel. sometimes you can tell a thread will be garbage in the first few posts. sometimes it develops into something really amusing. it varies too much for a hard and fast rule. in my opinion.

From what you posted, I understand it is relative to the mod, and that can be relative to the moment, to their judgement, to their opinion.

Maybe this needs to be used in the rules instead of terms that are too interpretative for the crowd of users.

I understand this will not make your job easier, because it will create appeals and even attempts at dividing the mods. I am sensitive to the fact that your are doing this on a voluntary basis, but I think the "any real content", "mental sewage" and "nonsense" expressions need to be removed and instead, adjust the rules with "as per the judgement of the mods" and "in matter to respect some form of purpose and good taste", which removes any pretense to objectivity that a definition including "nonsense" would suggest. It puts accountabilities where they belong, and "offenders" in front of the rulers, the moderators, who try to do their best under the circumstances (which we should assume as a given).

This comes to mind because you expressed your opinion in the matter, instead of a judgement. This goes better along the way of avoiding a "hard and fast" rule, as you suggested, than if we used the terms mentioned above, which suggest a "hard and fast" rule without specified criteria.

I guess what I mean is let's leave our illusions behind and put the middle concepts away and put things as they really are. Mods decide what's proper in terms of content, whenever a definition cannot be made clearly of what is improper. Unless you can define "+1" thread, that is, and the likes. This is not a business where the owners are accountable to the users, but rather the opposite, so let's make this clear and go on our merry way.

I know this is not my home and I am a guest, but as a guest, I ought to be given parameters as to how to behave. I, like many others, am here to have fun, debate, and learn. But we need clear rules. "The mods have final say and that is undebatable and mods will act according to their best judgement whenever they can" sounds much closer to reality and appropriate than a set of rules asking for further definition.

Respectfully, these were my 2 cents, and thank you for the precision.

[tooki]

Whoa, lighten up!

But seriously, there's no one solution, because stupidity can't be quantified. There's no way to say "we only allow threads of up to 27% stupidity index".

So of course it's subjective. That should be clear. I think it's perfectly clear that such vague descriptions as "mental sewage" can't be anything but subjective.

tooki

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

..lots of stuff...

Why do you care so much?

Post your thread, if it's deemed "stupid, retarded, or silly" it will get locked. Big deal.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AKcrab

Why do you care so much?

Post your thread, if it's deemed "stupid, retarded, or silly" it will get locked. Big deal.

Plus... er n/m

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Plus... er n/m

You don't know how bad I wanted to.

[Randman]

What new forum rules?

[rickey939]

Originally Posted by Randman

What new forum rules?

http://forums.macnn.com/feedback/announcement/a/

Updated 12/2/05.

[tooki]

Yeah, Randman, see in every forum where it says "Updated 12/2/05" in bold red letters?

tooki

[Randman]

Originally Posted by tooki

Yeah, Randman, see in every forum where it says "Updated 12/2/05" in bold red letters?

tooki

No.

I use Show New Posts 98% of the time and there is no BIG RED announcement on the homepage nor the Show New Posts page.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by tooki

Besides, nudity per se doesn't make something pornographic. I don't think any of us are gonna remove nude art.

technically I think nudes are prohibited if I'm reading the guidelines correctly.

"No adult content. We have many underage members, and many members view the forums from the workplace, where adult content may violate regulations."

based upon underage members and workplace they are not allowed. Of course I could be misunderstood your response here too.

Mike

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Randman

No.

I use Show New Posts 98% of the time and there is no BIG RED announcement on the homepage nor the Show New Posts page.

I have no way of putting announcements there. I suggest you check a forum listing now and then, in that case.

tooki

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

technically I think nudes are prohibited if I'm reading the guidelines correctly.

"No adult content. We have many underage members, and many members view the forums from the workplace, where adult content may violate regulations."

based upon underage members and workplace they are not allowed. Of course I could be misunderstood your response here too.

Mike

Well, when I have kids, I won't want them seeing porn, but I'll have no problem showing them Michelangelo's David or other nude art. Art is art. Porn is porn.

So yeah, art = ok. Porn = not OK.

At least as far as I'm concerned.

tooki

[Kevin]

I think we should be able to discern the difference between art, and masturbation material guys.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by tooki

I have no way of putting announcements there. I suggest you check a forum listing now and then, in that case.

Then you should be aware that not everyone is going to read your proclamation. A simple suggestion is to add some red text in the PowerMac header (perhaps all caps) as there is Under OSX and Peripherals.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by tooki

Well, when I have kids, I won't want them seeing porn, but I'll have no problem showing them Michelangelo's David or other nude art. Art is art. Porn is porn.

tooki

I agree and I'll have no problems taking my daughters to the museum and seeing other art works such as Michelangelo's David. What I am saying is posting pictures of nude woman here at macnn is inappropriate and seemingly against the forum rules thats all.

Your comment of that not being porn (which I it isn't) is out of context as nudity is disallowed here. The last thing I need is opening a thread while I'm at work and having a image of a nude woman show up - I can get fired for that. Likewise at home, I'd rather not surf to macnn open a thread and either have my children behind me, or my wife and a nude comes through.

Your guidlines say that
"No adult content. We have many underage members, and many members view the forums from the workplace, where adult content may violate regulations."

[starman]

One of the posts in the girls thread showed more than what was deemed acceptable. When I posted about it, someone said that it's the same you'd see on the cover of Maxim. Uh, no. I read Maxim and they don't show what was in that thread on the cover.

I don't want to get that thread locked, I like it , but when nudity is shown, the pic has to be removed for the sake of the thread. It's happened before - pics were removed while the thread was saved from being locked.

[Kevin]

Now if we could only get Rob attacking people for their religious beliefs be against the rules..

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

I agree and I'll have no problems taking my daughters to the museum and seeing other art works such as Michelangelo's David. What I am saying is posting pictures of nude woman here at macnn is inappropriate and seemingly against the forum rules thats all.

Your comment of that not being porn (which I it isn't) is out of context as nudity is disallowed here. The last thing I need is opening a thread while I'm at work and having a image of a nude woman show up - I can get fired for that. Likewise at home, I'd rather not surf to macnn open a thread and either have my children behind me, or my wife and a nude comes through.

Your guidlines say that
"No adult content. We have many underage members, and many members view the forums from the workplace, where adult content may violate regulations."

Where exactly are we disagreeing? Porn = not ok here. Art = OK here.

tooki

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Randman

Then you should be aware that not everyone is going to read your proclamation. A simple suggestion is to add some red text in the PowerMac header (perhaps all caps) as there is Under OSX and Peripherals.

Very few members don't go through the forum listings.

You say "proclamation" as if it were a political manifesto. It's a set of rules, plus additional tips and guidelines for newbies.

What's special about the Power Mac forum? The General Rules are shown in every single forum. The whole point is to not have to maintain separate General Rules pages for each forum. Instead, ONE General Rules announcement (which takes its place outside the listing of threads, which is good) and then each forum can have stickies for any rules unique to that forum.

tooki

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by tooki

Very few members don't go through the forum listings.

How about linking to it from the front page as well, then, for those few who don't?

[Randman]

Originally Posted by tooki

Very few members don't go through the forum listings.

How can you track that?

Originally Posted by tooki

You say "proclamation" as if it were a political manifesto. It's a set of rules, plus additional tips and guidelines for newbies.

Actually, I meant it as opposed to announcement.

Originally Posted by tooki

What's special about the Power Mac forum? The General Rules are shown in every single forum. The whole point is to not have to maintain separate General Rules pages for each forum. Instead, ONE General Rules announcement (which takes its place outside the listing of threads, which is good) and then each forum can have stickies for any rules unique to that forum.

The PowerMac listing is the topmost item on the Show New Posts page.


Anyway, the point is that there are people who do not see the forum announcements nor look for regular updates. I'm sure there has to be some way to have that on the page so people can see such items regardless of the manner in which they visit the site.

[rickey939]

Enough gentleman.

[Kevin]

I use the User Control Panel.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Randman

1. How can you track that?
2. The PowerMac listing is the topmost item on the Show New Posts page.
3. Anyway, the point is that there are people who do not see the forum announcements nor look for regular updates. I'm sure there has to be some way to have that on the page so people can see such items regardless of the manner in which they visit the site.

1. We haven't done a study (though I'm sure log file analysis would be possible), but from talking to so many users, it's pretty clear that it's not how most people enter.

2. Well, I dunno what "New Posts" page you're seeing, but mine shows the posts in the order of newness, regardless of what forum it was in. It's not segregated by forum at all -- that's what the normal way is!

3. There might be, but it'll require modifying the site a bit -- not something I am in a position to do. The forumwide announcement mechanism is the one available to me, so I am using it.

tooki

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by tooki

If a thread, despite being silly, can result in amusing discussion, it's OK.

If it's just mental sewage, like +1 threads or the bee/ant/sea/tea threads, no, it has no place here.

tooki

The problem is, "amusing discussion" simply cannot be defined in a way that we can all agree upon, especially if it is posted in a place called the Lounge.

Let's tackle this a different way: what exactly was the problem with the nonsense threads?

[Kevin]

Too many of them lately?