[Gamoe]

If the deletion of the AppleTalker thread was a mistake or a glitch, then please let me know. Otherwise, I find this behavior rather disturbing and unacceptable. I don't believe there were any "rules" broken, and certainly my own post was not out of line in any way. This wasn't even a lock. It was an outright deletion, and that speaks volumes. What was so horrible about that thread that needed to be outright censored-- deleted out of existence as if it never was?

I didn't start the thread and I can't be responsible for others actions, but I do have a problem with a well thought-out and respectful post of mine being deleted just because, without any explanation or warning.

If someone here is doing this out of spite or some kind of fear, I'd find that rather juvenile, considering that MacNN has thousands of members and AppleTalker doesn't even have 100 members thus far.

[Scotttheking]

Spam is deleted, not locked. I presume that is why your thread was deleted. *goes off to delete new marketplace spam*

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

...considering that MacNN has thousands of members and AppleTalker doesn't even have 100 members thus far.

Gee, I wonder why?

Maybe it's the fact that you spam-raid MacNN to get hits at AppleTalker? Maybe it's the fact that AT is asking for donations to 'stay alive'? Maybe it's your constant whining everytime AT spam is taken down?

All of the above perhaps?

If you honestly want AT to flourish, you need to take a step back and realize that your actions and attiude here are doing more to hurt than help. And I'm not speaking only for the mods and the admins, I'm speaking as a member.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Scotttheking

Spam is deleted, not locked. I presume that is why your thread was deleted. *goes off to delete new marketplace spam*

You have a strange definition of SPAM. I don't see how that thread was SPAM in any way more so than thousands of threads in the lounge or elsewhere here about some other great site or product. There was no selling of anything and the thread was started by and replied by long-time MacNN members.

It looks to me more more like an attempt to censor the thread out of spite or at least something other than maintenance and orderliness of the forums. Oh, and I've seen obvious marketplace SPAM stay there for days, yet this thread was deleted in less than one. That is rather curious.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Gee, I wonder why?

Maybe it's the fact that you spam-raid MacNN to get hits at AppleTalker? Maybe it's the fact that AT is asking for donations to 'stay alive'? Maybe it's your constant whining everytime AT spam is taken down?

All of the above perhaps?

If you honestly want AT to flourish, you need to take a step back and realize that your actions and attiude here are doing more to hurt than help. And I'm not speaking only for the mods and the admins, I'm speaking as a member.

Lateralus,

First off, no one in any way has asked for money for AppleTalker on here, so please don't twist the intent of the thread. In fact, no one is required in any way to give money to AppleTalker. On AppleTalker, posts themselves are considered contribution.

Unlike this place, it is not run by ads, or have a big News front page to subsidize it, thus the need for donations, which are all accounted for publicly on the forum itself, and all of which goes to pay the server and all thigns necessary to actually run the board, without pay for anyone, including the administrator.

Now, if you had read my response, you would realize that I do not condone "attacking" MacNN, nor do I constantly "spam" the forums nor "whine" about it. In fact, this is my first post about this particular issue. I think you're generalizing.

Like I said, I cannot be responsible for others' actions, not even other AppleTalker members'. I can only be responsible for mine, and I fully stand by those. All I know is that my perfectly good post was deleted because someone thought it was appropriate to do so, even though I don't see anything that would have disallowed that thread.

[Scotttheking]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Oh, and I've seen obvious marketplace SPAM stay there for days, yet this thread was deleted in less than one. That is rather curious.

There's a report this post link for a reason.

[starman]

Can I report this thread?

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Lateralus,

First off, no one in any way has asked for money for AppleTalker on here, so please don't twist the intent of the thread. In fact, no one is required in any way to give money to AppleTalker. On AppleTalker, posts themselves are considered contribution.

I never said you guys asked for money here, so don't accuse me of twisting things I didn't twist.

As for your view that the posts themselves are seen as the contribution. All I can say is... Awwww... How sweet

Too bad every other message board on the planet shares the same view. How are you unique?

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Unlike this place, it is not run by ads, or have a big News front page to subsidize it, thus the need for donations, which are all accounted for publicly on the forum itself, and all of which goes to pay the server and all thigns necessary to actually run the board, without pay for anyone, including the administrator.

I'd hardly say this place is run by ads. If anything, MacNN has one of the lowest ad counts and cleanest layouts of any large message boards. I'd challenge you to do better with a member count of more than 60,000 but you seem to be having enough of a problem getting past 100 so...

As for the front page subsidizing the forums, you've got it backwards. MacNN's forums are the heart of the entity. And if you actually paid attention to what went on around here, you'd know that. But instead you just run around looking for excuses to spam your forums everytime anybody around here has a grivence. Newsflash: It's impossible to please everybody, especially with a member count this high. So don't act like you're doing anybody except yourself or your forums a favor by casually tossing in links to AT in your posts because you're not.

MacNN doesn't pay its moderators or admins either, BTW.

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Now, if you had read my response, you would realize that I do not condone "attacking" MacNN, nor do I constantly "spam" the forums nor "whine" about it. In fact, this is my first post about this particular issue. I think you're generalizing.

Sorry, but you're so full of **** you're glowing brown.

Please don't make me review your posts for references to AppleTalker that were 'conveniently' made during discussions of negative occurances here at MacNN. I really don't want to waste my time doing the search since you know as well as I do that they were made. But if you insist I will, it certainly wont be that hard.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

I never said you guys asked for money here, so don't accuse me of twisting things I didn't twist.

It seemed to be implied that that was one of the reasons that you considered it "SPAM".

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Too bad every other message board on the planet shares the same view. How are you unique?

Lateralus, we're unique because we are based in democratic values, where all major decisions, including the decision to ban someone or not, are made by the entire board and not a select few. I realize this might be difficult or "inconvenient" for you, and I don't blame you, nor am I attacking you, but you asked how we are unique. And no, it doesn't seem like posts are really valued here the way that the administration acts arbitrarily here sometimes.

Originally Posted by Lateralus

I'd hardly say this place is run by ads. If anything, MacNN has one of the lowest ad counts and cleanest layouts of any large message boards. I'd challenge you to do better with a member count of more than 60,000 but you seem to be having enough of a problem getting past 100 so...

Perhaps some day we'll meet that challenge, but I think the quality of AppleTalker stands on its own, even if we don't have nearly as many members as MacNN, which makes me wonder why you consider AppleTalker such a threat as to censor any posts about it.

Originally Posted by Lateralus

As for the front page subsidizing the forums, you've got it backwards. MacNN's forums are the heart of the entity. And if you actually paid attention to what went on around here, you'd know that.

I have a life outside this, and any other board and I can't be completely attune to everything that's going on on the forums every day. Perhaps you can, but not me.

Originally Posted by Lateralus

But instead you just run around looking for excuses to spam your forums every time anybody around here has a grivence.

I resent that, because most of my posts have nothing to do with AppleTalker and I come here to be informed and help out other users when I can. I really think you've got me confused with someone else.

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Newsflash: It's impossible to please everybody, especially with a member count this high. So don't act like you're doing anybody except yourself or your forums a favor by casually tossing in links to AT in your posts because you're not.

Okay, if there's a relevant thread on AppleTalker, what's the problem with posting a link. It's like posting a link to the Apple discussion boards or the Ars forums. On what basis do you have a problem with that?

Oh, and I know you can't please everybody. I know that there will always be people who are not pleased with certain decisions (such as I am), but the problem is that you don't even give the people a chance to express their will. In the end MacNN is a company which makes money and is owned by an individual who does as he pleases when he pleases, regardless of the will of the people. And if you're not getting a cut, maybe you should seriously consider something else, as I've said.

Originally Posted by Lateralus

MacNN doesn't pay its moderators or admins either, BTW.

Maybe you should consider something else, then?

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Sorry, but you're so full of **** you're glowing brown.

That's pretty inappropriate. Have I used that language with you? Then I expect and appreciate that you not reply to me in this manner. If there's one thing I've tried to be here is respectful, even when I vehemently disagree with your (plural) decisions, such as at present.

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Please don't make me review your posts for references to AppleTalker that were 'conveniently' made during discussions of negative occurances here at MacNN. I really don't want to waste my time doing the search since you know as well as I do that they were made. But if you insist I will, it certainly wont be that hard.

If you want to go ahead. No link that I've made to AppleTalker has been in bad faith, and you seem to be under the impression that I'm constantly throwing links up, which is quite untrue.

In any case, I'm pretty much done with this "conversation". If you've got any problems with anything any member does you should let him know first before banning him.

[starman]

Go play in your own sandbox. Please.

[Peter]

Gabriel Morales if AppleTalker is so awesome, sod off back to it. You've put me off EVER going to AppleTalker.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Peter

Gabriel Morales if AppleTalker is so awesome, sod off back to it. You've put me off EVER going to AppleTalker.

Exactly.

The site has no culture except it's a place to bash NN. It won't last.

[Person Man]

Let's address some of your points.

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Perhaps some day we'll meet that challenge, but I think the quality of AppleTalker stands on its own, even if we don't have nearly as many members as MacNN, which makes me wonder why you consider AppleTalker such a threat as to censor any posts about it.

I don't think they consider your forums a "threat." They would do this to ANY OTHER forum being advertised in the same way.

You people are saying "Fed up with MacNN and their problems? Come to AppleTalker!" That is Spam, pure and simple.

Okay, if there's a relevant thread on AppleTalker, what's the problem with posting a link. It's like posting a link to the Apple discussion boards or the Ars forums. On what basis do you have a problem with that?

No. Provided it's done properly. In other words, made without any negative or snide remarks about MacNN.

So, in a discussion about a topic, it should be perfectly OK to say "...the people in this thread on the Example Forums have some interesting points about this topic."

It would NOT be OK to say "...the people in this thread on the Example Forums (which by the way never go down like MacNN and we run the place differently)have some interesting points about this topic."

Yes those are in-your-face examples.

Also, the founders of the AT forums sent personal messages to various members here asking them to come over and join. I know because I received one during the IntelliTXT thing, which seems to have been taken care of. That was an unsolicited message, and therefore is SPAM no matter how you try to spin it. And I know a few people have received them this time, too.

[darth-vader000]

I saw that thread is I'm not sure how you could imply that it is anything but spam.

I think its impolite and inconsiderate to advertise a competing site here. Regardless of how you may feel about the mods or this forum its just nor right.

Finally why are you even complaining. If AT is so great go there and leave us alone

I have no problems that macnn has competition but they are under no compulsion to let people spam us about it.

[tooki]

If we were Circuit City, and a Best Buy employee came in and started handing out Best Buy flyers, don't you think they'd be asked to stop at once? And asked to leave (which we haven't even done)? You bet that if Best Buy folks were inside a Circuit City and refused to leave when asked, the cops would be called and they'd be charged with trespass.

Obviously this is a forum, but clearly it's not good etiquette to be posting thread after thread about a competing forum, and we are well within our rights (both from common sense and our posted TOS) to remove them.

tooki

[euphras]

Originally Posted by starman

Exactly.

The site has no culture except it's a place to bash NN. It won't last.

You´re simply not right on that. And yes, i also say it was spam. I did say it here (in one of the threads beeing deleted) and over there at AT.

[Gamoe]

Guys I'm done with this discussion. I can understand some debate over the appropriateness of the original posts, but I think my posts and the overall responses I've gotten here speak for themselves.

[starman]

You're done again?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

In any case, I'm pretty much done with this "conversation".

Excellent!

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Guys I'm done with this discussion. I can understand some debate over the appropriateness of the original posts, but I think my posts and the overall responses I've gotten here speak for themselves.

CRAP!!! You lied!

Is that the kind of behavior to expect at not-quite-MacNN-but trying to capitalize-on-their-success-Appletalker.com?

[Peter]

they're nowhere near MacNN, spamming and trolling doesnt make me want to join them.

[chris v]

Hey, whatever happenned to that crazy NotNN forum that Cuboid started, huh? Now those were fun times.

Oh, wait... no, they weren't.

[Oisín]

This is what happens when it’s 1:30 in the morning, you’re bored, and you can’t sleep: you start replying to threads you weren’t going to get involved in. Ah, well.

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Sorry, but you're so full of **** you're glowing brown.

Sorry, but aren’t you supposed to be a moderator? Personal attacks like that are the reason (well, one of the reasons) we have “Report Abuse” links here. Aren’t the moderators supposed to be setting a good example?

Originally Posted by Starman

The site has no culture except it's a place to bash NN.

As euphras said, that’s simply not true. Remarkably little MacNN-bashing goes on there, actually, considering that the vast majority of members are either former MacNN’ers who have abandoned these shores, or members of both MacNN and AppleTalker.

Originally Posted by Railroader

Is that the kind of behavior to expect at not-quite-MacNN-but trying to capitalize-on-their-success-Appletalker.com?

“Trying to capitalize on their success”? What does that even mean? Do you think all AppleTalker members are just lying in wait for something like the recent database glitch to happen on MacNN, so that they may steal away all the members?

Originally Posted by Peter

they're nowhere near MacNN

Nor are they/we trying to be. Is there anything wrong with having more than one Mac-related forum around? Why do they have to be competitors? My contributions to MacNN have not gone down since AppleTalker was started—in fact, I’m almost certain they’ve gone up a bit.

Originally Posted by Peter

spamming and trolling doesnt make me want to join them.

I never got to read either of the now deleted threads, so I’ll make no comment as to whether or not they were spam (though my principal feeling would be that it was, from the ways the contents have been described, not only in this thread, but in others, here and at AT, as well); but trolling they most certainly were not. Some members from AT might have promoted or linked to the site in ways that were inappropriate some places—in some cases inappropriately enough to warrant it be labelled spam—but no one has trolled about it.

Originally Posted by Person Man

Also, the founders of the AT forums sent personal messages to various members here asking them to come over and join. I know because I received one during the IntelliTXT thing, which seems to have been taken care of. That was an unsolicited message, and therefore is SPAM no matter how you try to spin it.

What, any unsolicited PM is spam? Nobody’s allowed to contact anyone else without the other person first asking to be contacted?

Okay, I know that’s not what you meant—but the private messages that were sent were not spam. They were sent only to people the ‘founders’ (including some early members) thought might be interested in taking a look at AT. They weren’t sent in bulk, and they weren’t sent without consideration of the recipients, either.

I didn’t, in fact, receive any such PMs in the beginning; but I have received similar PMs regarding similar and dissimilar forums in the past, and have always been glad of them (by “them”, I do not, obviously, include the ones that really were spam, to irrelevant forums, sent in bulk by bots, etc.).



Regardless of all this blather, one point does need to be stressed: members (by which I mean contributing members, not spam bots) should not simply be banned without reason. As far as I’ve gathered, procedure here is to give a warning (via PM or in a thread) before banning someone. That procedure should be kept.

Originally Posted by Scotttheking

Spam is deleted, not locked. I presume that is why your thread was deleted.

I have seen several spam threads be locked, but not deleted. In any case, if a thread has spurred an actual conversation (which I gather the original thread in question here had), wouldn’t it be better not to delete it, but simply lock it, whether it was spam or not at its inception? My personal feeling, at least, is that in such cases, the will to preserve user contributions should take precedence over the hard-and-fast rule of deleting all spam.


Right. 25 minutes later, and I’m slightly less bored, slightly more tired, and 25 minutes closer to have-to-get-out-of-bed-time. Off to bed.

[seanc]

Google shows it still exists and is alive.

[starman]

I would just like to point out that nobody has posted in the AT lounge in 2 days.

Boy, that's one hell of a site you got there

[starman]

I would just like to point out that nobody has posted in the AT lounge in 2 days.

Boy, that's one hell of a site you got there

Last post 2 days ago
by Simon