[Tiresias]

Come on; an infraction, for this?



You will also notice that the recipient replied: "Thanks for the warning. I'll stay clear of you." And none of this need upset anyone. And why not?. Let us open our dictionaries to J:

joke noun 1. a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, esp. a story with a funny punchline: "she was in a mood to tell jokes." 2. a trick played on someone for fun. 3. [in sing. ] informal a person or thing that is ridiculously inadequate : "the transportation system is a joke."

Sense 1 to my post; sense 3 to your infraction.

[peeb]

No jokes allowed.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by peeb 

No jokes allowed.

In that case, I believe there should be a sign emplaced somewhere on these boards, to avoid any misunderstanding.

[Randman]

Or maybe it's a sign that the act is getting old.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Randman 

Or maybe it's a sign that the act is getting old.

Act?

[Kevin]

This post reminds me of a Rob post..

How is that NOT infraction worthy? The fact you believe it is not, tells me you need to do some hard thinking about what a personal attack is and what a joke is.

If you think personally attacking a person in that way is funny.. well

I'd have gotten banned had I posted such a thing not too long ago. I've gotten a infraction for a lot less.

You'd could spin and label ANY attack you make on someone a "joke"

[Dakarʒ]

Infractions aren't just about what you said -- they're about who you said them to, and whether they're the type to report.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

You will also notice that the recipient replied: "Thanks for the warning. I'll stay clear of you." And none of this need upset anyone.

I don’t know what thread that was in, or what the context was, but that reply could just as well be written angrily as jokingly.

Personally, I wouldn’t have found that particular graph particular funny, either, and I’m pretty tough-skinned. I wouldn’t have bothered reporting it, but I would definitely have taken it as an insult, rather than a joke.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Infractions aren't just about what you said -- they're about who you said them to, and whether they're the type to report.

...and we come to the crux of the problem. People who give infractions for silly things like this need to be given infractions.

If your skin is so thin that someone you've never met calling you an ass makes you feel violated then maybe it's time to get out of the intarwebs. I can see constant badgering, but calling someone a jerk isn't infraction-worthy.

This isn't something the mods need to take a look at, it's something everyone needs to take a look at.

BTW no matter how "attacked" I've ever been I've NEVER reported anyone for anything. It's childish to see all this 'reported' jazz going back and forth between rival members.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Infractions aren't just about what you said -- they're about who you said them to

Well of course. If someone for example personally attacks a person. More than like they wont get an infraction. If someone however, has a habit of doing it, esp to the same person, then more than likely they will. Of all the infractions (1) I have gotten I've deserved.

and whether they're the type to report.

What type of rule breaking is the type to report, and what type isn't?

[Dakarʒ]

I have no idea how you found something contentious in that post, to be honest, I don't really care.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by sek929 

...and we come to the crux of the problem. People who give infractions for silly things like this need to be given infractions.

I would say those that feel the need to do silly things like this NEED to be given infractions like this to. Such a thing ads nothing to the discussion, often derails threads, and is just all and all obnoxious.

If your skin is so thin that someone you've never met calling you an ass makes you feel violated then maybe it's time to get out of the intarwebs.

I don't think that was the deal with this. Probably more likely people are just sick of the immature acting in the PL by certain people that are constantly doing it. Instead of attacking what that person said, they attack the person. It's a lack of a argument. And when it becomes a habit, the person should indeed get an infraction. Not that infractions really do anything. If you are getting enough infractions to get banned, you probably deserve to get banned. Infractions are more of a warning. A reminder to not act like that when you load the page.

I can see constant badgering, but calling someone a jerk isn't infraction-worthy.

Putting a "Caution, beware of dumb-ass" isn't infraction worthy how?
I would say it would be a great example of something you'd get an infraction for. And rightfully so. Anything against the rules in the PL forum is infraction worthy. I would say if you NEED to act all immature and jr highish to post, that maybe you shouldn't be posting?

This isn't something the mods need to take a look at, it's something everyone needs to take a look at.

I don't think any wrong doing was done here. There is nothing to look at. Other than "stop being a jerk"

Tiresias could have just said "I think what you said was silly because..." and would have never gotten an infraction. By simply posting a sign calling someone a dumbass, that ads nothing to the conversation. And when you keep letting stuff like that get by, it keeps getting worse. Give someone an inch, they take a mile.

BTW no matter how "attacked" I've ever been I've NEVER reported anyone for anything.

I've never really seen you ever get attacked like some people in here have. One person may have been riling against you. But you've never really had a large group fill a thread full of lame personal attacks against you either..

It's childish to see all this 'reported' jazz going back and forth between rival members.

That isn't always the case. For example, I've reported abe before many times for what I considered him crossing the line.

I've reported people attacking others that had nothing to do with me.

It's just damned annoying that certain people can't reply to a post without making character assassinations.

I mean EVERYONE is guilty of doing this once in awhile. I am not talking about them. I am speaking about those that make a habit of it.

And since reading this thread, and Tiresias's complaint, I went through Tiresias's posts in the PL. Much of them are of the same value and content. Just attacks and trolling.

So I am betting the pic was just the straw that broke the camel's back .

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I have no idea how you found something contentious in that post, to be honest,

I don't know... the whole "Infractions aren't just about what you said"
Wouldn't that be disagreeing with my post? I was just responding to in like. If you don't want people to think that you were attempting to argue with them, I'd suggest you not attempt to correct their post... maybe?

I don't really care.

Then why did you post it? Or even reply to my post?

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I don't know... the whole "Infractions aren't just about what you said"
Wouldn't that be disagreeing with my post? I was just responding to in like. If you don't want people to think that you were attempting to argue with them, I'd suggest you not attempt to correct their post... maybe?

Ah, that is my fault, I was addressing the OP.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Then why did you post it? Or even reply to my post?

Because I was in momentary awe.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Ah, that is my fault, I was addressing the OP.

Thats ok then. I just got confused since you replied right below my post without quoting anyone. On most internet forums anything you say when replying to someone, without quoting them will be seen as a reply to the person that posted before you.

That is why when I've done the same thing you just did, and then re-loaded the page only to see someone posted before me, I always go back and edit it and add to quote of the person I was actually talking to. Saves awkward situations like this.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Thats ok then. I just got confused since you replied right below my post without quoting anyone. On most internet forums anything you say when replying to someone, without quoting them will be seen as a reply to the person that posted before you.

I've seen it done, the problem was my response was too vague to distinguish who I was addressing.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

That is why when I've done the same thing you just did, and then re-loaded the page only to see someone posted before me, I always go back and edit it and add to quote of the person I was actually talking to. Saves awkward situations like this.

I knew you'd give me some obvious advice.

[Kevin]

You are welcome.

[Dakarʒ]

Its the ugly thumb that really hurts.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by sek929

If your skin is so thin that someone you've never met calling you an ass makes you feel violated then maybe it's time to get out of the intarwebs. I can see constant badgering, but calling someone a jerk isn't infraction-worthy.

Actually, here I disagree with you. Sure, it’s a bit petty, but then again, so is an infraction. It’s not like an infraction will get you banned. But we do post here under rules, and I think it’s only fair we get infractions when we break them, petty or not, just like jaywalking will get you a fine, too, though it’s pretty insignificant in the greater scheme of things.

Like you, though I’ve never actually reported anyone either. And I think it’s fine, in a way, that whether or not the offender receives an infraction depends more on the person on the receiving end than anything else—it quite accurately reflects the real world where lots of petty crimes are only punished/punishable if charges are pressed. Using the “Reported!” card as a kind of weapon is just ridiculous, like neighbours craning their necks to get a glimpse of their neighbours next door watering the garden when there’s a hose ban and then phoning the police about it. Infantile.

The report button should be reserved for times when the poster honestly feels that someone has said something that’s so ugly/bad that he can’t just shrug it off, something that really requires retribution of some sort. I’ve only ever used it once, and that wasn’t at anything directed at me. I can’t remember what it was, but it was a truly vicious, malign, and downright nasty post seemingly written with no other purpose than to hurt (I think it was Cody telling someone how she’d love to see him mutilated and brutally murdered, because... I can’t remember, something about dogs or cats, I think).

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I've never really seen you ever get attacked like some people in here have. One person may have been riling against you. But you've never really had a large group fill a thread full of lame personal attacks against you either..

Do you wonder why that is?

Maybe those who attract such a large amount of negative attention brought it upon themselves.

[StrongBadinator]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

This post reminds me of a Rob post..

How is that NOT infraction worthy? The fact you believe it is not, tells me you need to do some hard thinking about what a personal attack is and what a joke is.

If you think personally attacking a person in that way is funny.. well

I'd have gotten banned had I posted such a thing not too long ago. I've gotten a infraction for a lot less.

You'd could spin and label ANY attack you make on someone a "joke"

By the same token Kevin, your post, http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...2/#post3477155, there, is kind of the opposite. It's a direct attack on someone, but you've managed to cloak it as a mere 'observation'. So what we have here is a system that punishes people who post jokes, but allows people who 'attack others while staying within the rules'. Your posts are meant to irritate and anger, yet you do not actively call names, so you receive no infractions.

Personally I think it's a load of crap.

[StrongBadinator]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Do you wonder why that is?

Maybe those who attract such a large amount of negative attention brought it upon themselves.

Dunno about that.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Do you wonder why that is?

Maybe those who attract such a large amount of negative attention brought it upon themselves.

Not from what I have seen here. Take WDLove for example. He got attacked just for being what some deemed TOO nice.

That was pathetic.

By the same token Kevin, your post, http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...2/#post3477155, there, is kind of the opposite. It's a direct attack on someone, but you've managed to cloak it as a mere 'observation'.

I wasn't directly attacking him so much as his way of going about what he is doing.

If you see a desktop pic made by someone you know on a page. Then 3 months later you see that SAME pic on a page here and someone else is taking credit for it as if it was an original, would you pointing said thing not being originally their work be called personally attacking someone?

I don't really think so.

But then again, I could very well be wrong. I've never said I was never guilty of doing such. As a matter of fact, I've said we ALL were.

Not that you'll be responding... I see your stay here was a short one Rob.

You'll never learn.

[MacosNerd]

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Beside the infractions are nothing, just a warning, only if someone tends to be over the top *cough* ca$h *cough* does it matter or banning comes into play.

[sek929]

WD was a quirky member, can't say I held anything against him or lashed out at him. Though I did think the "him being a bot" thing was kinda funny.

I was absent for a year here and there so I can't be counted on to know the inner workings of the dark NN.

[turtle777]

I haven't received an infraction in months.

I think the 'NN gods hate me

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I haven't received an infraction in months.

I think the 'NN gods hate me

-t

I suggest posting a picture of your ass.

[adamfishercox]

The victim speaks. I took that as a personal attack, although not a very good one (see, the face made it a joke.)... And my reply was written jokingly, with a little anger behind it.

Either way, it is infraction worthy. Calling someone a dumb-ass can't really be interpreted as a joke unless you are really good friends or the thing that they did was so obviously stupid that they would even admit it themselves.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

Calling someone a dumb-ass can't really be interpreted as a joke unless you are really good friends or the thing that they did was so obviously stupid that they would even admit it themselves.

Unlike writing false dichotomies (vide supra), realising that you have said something stupid requires a modicum of intelligence. But what is to be done when your comment is diagnostic of a stupidity so prodigious that this realisation is impossible? Then, according to your reasoning, for the joke to be perceived it is necessary to be friends.

Thus, I abandon the joke.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

The victim speaks. I took that as a personal attack, although not a very good one (see, the face made it a joke.)... And my reply was written jokingly, with a little anger behind it.

Either way, it is infraction worthy. Calling someone a dumb-ass can't really be interpreted as a joke unless you are really good friends or the thing that they did was so obviously stupid that they would even admit it themselves.

Oh, so you are the dumba... model 'NN citizen that reported Tiresias. I see.

-t

[adamfishercox]

nope. I didn't actually know that members COULD report people (though I suppose THAT'S worthy of a dumbass sign.), and I wouldn't have reported him based on that.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

nope. I didn't actually know that members COULD report people, and I wouldn't have reported him based on that.

Now I'm confused. So what DID you do ?

-t

[adamfishercox]

I was the one the dumbass sign was directed towards.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

I was the one the dumbass sign was directed towards.

So if you didn't report me, who did?

*Toking and passing peace pipe*

[adamfishercox]

Got me.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

Got me.

Ok, come to think of it, maybe the sign wasn't that wrong...

-t

[adamfishercox]

How? I'm just keeping the thread rolling

Is anyone who says "got me" a dumbass now?

[macdude]

One of the mods probably just decided it was infraction-worthy. Things like that are quite subjective; it all depends on who reads it and how they interpret it.

Guess whoever saw it didn't take it lightly.

[Kevin]

Yeah those darn mods with their giving people infractions for making personal attacks.

Next thing you know, they will start banning people for it. Sheesh.


....

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

Either way, it is infraction worthy. Calling someone a dumb-ass can't really be interpreted as a joke unless you are really good friends or the thing that they did was so obviously stupid that they would even admit it themselves.

Indeed. I think everyone at some point in time that has gotten an infraction or ban believed they didn't deserve it when they did. I've done so in the past. But looking back now, I saw I indeed deserved most of the bans. (The ones I didn't got over-turned quickly by another mod soo..)

But yeah, I think this is a case of someone that has bee allowed to make such attacks for so long he can't believe he got an infraction for it now. (consistency!)

I just heard they locked silly obsession threads too

And for the record besson, it was ALWAYS taken in stride.



Actually this is the first time in a long time.. since tooki left has the moderation and their habits greatly improved.

Less BS is getting through the cracks. People that have been making personal attacks for along time are now getting reprimanded. And they are shocked!

It taught me some manners. Maybe it will teach others some too.

I blame (Salute) peter and ghreporter.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by sek929 

WD was a quirky member, can't say I held anything against him or lashed out at him. Though I did think the "him being a bot" thing was kinda funny.

I was absent for a year here and there so I can't be counted on to know the inner workings of the dark NN.

WD Love was one of the few decent people here in at MacNN. One of the few people that can actually say they've never made any personal attacks.

He was so nice certain people began to really make fun of him.

Then all crap broke loose WDLove decided to quit the forums cause of certain members belittling him constantly. Even to the point where they were asking him weird "sex" questions and then making fun of his responses.

When those certain members got slammed for doing so, a few of them went and insincerely befriended WD to make themselves look better.

Regardless of what spins anyone has made, I talk to WDlove many times about such incident. And he still wont come back because of it.

And this man's crime in here? Being too nice.

I would say of all the personal attacks, or the crummy things people have done to other people in here, the way WDLove got the "treatment" was the worst. Just because the people who were making fun of him were doing it to amuse themselves. Regardless of the man's feelings.

And regardless of who will come in here and claim they are "good with WDLove" I still talk to him. He is still upset about the incident. Embarrassed you might say.. that he wont come back anymore.

So obviously everything isn't "OK"

Esp since the same people minus one that got perm banned for posting kiddy porn, are still playing the "game" with other people now that WDLove is gone.

It's the same people that attack, but don't want anyone to bust them for it.

People don't like being reminded they are hurting someone's feelings when they are "having fun" belittling them.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

And this man's crime in here? Being too nice.

I don't know if you honestly believe this or if you're just trying to spin things to make others look bad, but I think most people were more annoyed by the fact that WDLove's posts were devoid of meaningful content. That isn't to say he deserved to be mistreated for it, but let's be fair here. It would have been the same if he'd posted the same amount of fluff with a negative spin.

[besson3c]

Kevin, your take on what drove WDLove out of these forums is completely and entirely full of ****, trust me. You really are clueless WRT this issue.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I don't know if you honestly believe this or if you're just trying to spin things to make others look bad, but I think most people were more annoyed by the fact that WDLove's posts were devoid of meaningful content.

A lot of his posts were just him being nice. Saying "Hello" and telling people that he hopes they have a good day etc. This may not have been meaningful to you, but for some he was inspiring. No matter how badly someone would be making fun of him, he'd reply nicely. There were at the time a lot of people that were making posts devoid of content (And still are) that are hateful with their posts. Yet, they never got the treatment WDlove did. The facts is, he didn't "fight back" he was an easy target.

That isn't to say he deserved to be mistreated for it, but let's be fair here. It would have been the same if he'd posted the same amount of fluff with a negative spin.

If it was a negative spin, at least people would have had a reason to attack him the way they did. But I am glad you at least admit he didn't deserve the mistreatment he got.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Kevin, your take on what drove WDLove out of these forums is completely and entirely full of ****, trust me. You really are clueless WRT this issue.

Again, this came from the man's own text he typed. This is what he told me. So unless you are calling WDLove a liar, I'd back off a bit. It's sad to this day you are still trying to belittle the event. And it shows you just how much respect you actually have for the guy. WDLove himself told me he was leaving because you two embarrassed him so badly with your little scheme.This is what he told me. That you two tricked him into thinking you were his buddies, when you were just being insincere to make fun of him. It really hurt him badly. Ask Cody about it all. She remembers too. There was no excuse for it. Not then, not now, not ever. I wont go into detail about what went on out of respect for WDlove (He asked me not to) and I don't think you'd want me to either.. You know what you and Cubeoid did besson. There should have been a public apology in the forums from you two over that instance.

And yes, I know after you got reamed for doing such a thing, you tried to make it better. Even gave WDlove an account at your forum, and attempted to blame other people and act as if it was "MacNNs" fault. It was all insincere. And WDLove again felt betrayed. He may not have told YOU these things because he isn't a confrontational guy like that. But he did tell ME these things. So just because you weren't informed doesn't mean *I* don't know what I am talking about. And WDLove doesn't have a history of being a liar, or trying to start drama. So I believe his reasons for what he did over yours. After all, he would know better as to why he did something than you would... Not that him not telling you should matter. *I* told you what he said long ago. And you are still acting like you've not heard it.

Before that time I really had no problem with you. And your claim about me spazzing out about the triangles wasn't really that truthful besson. I even stopped quite a few people from reporting you for it telling them that you were just trying to fit in, be part of the "group" (I even made a graphic version of it and named it "For besson")

Though you DID go over-board with the silliness, and didn't know when to stop. I never once spazzed out about it though.

IN WD's case, I hope you at least apologized to him. If not, I really don't know what to say.

And it's really not the action that made people mad. Even though people had justifiable right to be angry at you two. But it was the total denial of even doing anything wrong, and the way you talked down to people that told you as much that really ticked those I talked to off. There was no remorse. And to this day, you are still doing it. That is why I am on your case from time to time. I am going to try to make sure no one else gets "WDLoved" again.

EVERYONE does things they should not. EVERYONE says things to people they shouldn't. Including me.

It's how you deal with, and take responsibility for said actions that matter.

Take for example, the other day on IRC I called someone a retard for saying something stupid (We were having a political discussion) A few minutes later another op msg'd me and put me in my place in a honest but nice way. Telling me that I have banned people for personal attacks, yet I just made one myself. I realized what I did. I publicly apologized to said person. Even though he didn't take it personally. He said that it wasn't really needed. I explained to him how it was. Not just for him, but for me too.

But in order to do things, one has to put his or her ego on the shelf, eat some crow, and admit to wrong doing.

Blame shifting, deluding oneself into believing nothing wrong was done, or making justifications for our actions are a direct opposite of apologizing for wrong doing.

They just lead us into doing these things again. And we learn nothing.

So you can continue to call me clueless about the matter, and continue to tell me I don't know what I am talking about. It means jack. I actually spoke to the guy about it. And he wasn't lying to me. I'll take HIS word over why HE did something over yours.

[BlueSky]

You're such a saint, Kevin. I think I want to bear your love child.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by BlueSky 

You're such a saint

I am not a saint, but a sinner.

Kevin. I think I want to bear your love child.

Meet me in the back of the MacNNForum warehouse bathroom at 8. I'll be in stall 2 Make sure to tap my foot..

[BlueSky]

Never mind, I'll settle for kissing your ring.

[Kevin]

I think you are confusing me with someone that is Catholic.

[OreoCookie]

I think it's better to continue your exchange in private. Closing …