[mmurray]

Is money for MacNN forums so short we have to have advertisements for drug-pushers ?

Michael

[elzinat]

thank you michael. I am ashamed that I never complained about it before. Yes, you are absolutely right, advertisments for drug-pushers are far worse even then when there were ads for wintel machines. Please, admins, demand that your stupid evil ad agency which supports these criminals stop making you their accomplices.

[Cipher13]

Who cares? Advertise heroin for all I care. I mean anyone who goes out and has a cigar cause it was advertised on MacNN... well... they've got some issues.


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[eep!]

Drug pushers? god no...
advertise coca-cola, cough syrup, chocolate.
or you could even advertise MacNN after-all ciphers already addicted

[elzinat]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Who cares? Advertise heroin for all I care. I mean anyone who goes out and has a cigar cause it was advertised on MacNN... well... they've got some issues.

dude, the fact that there exists a thing such that you do not care about it does not imply that there does not exist a person such that that person cares about that thing. this is very very basic logic, which you should have learned in kindergarden

[Cipher13]

My point is if you're gonna smoke you're gonna smoke whether MacNN advertises it or not.

And if you don't want to smoke then seeing a picture of a cigar isn't gonna make you want to smoke is it? If someone is that weak minded, they should be staying away from comptuers anyway.

The issue is not whether anybody cares about it - the issue is that it has a minimal impact on anything.

Did that ad make you want to smoke?


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[elzinat]

ciph, that's not the point though. the point is that if you are displaying an ad on your website, that is endorsement of the content of the ad and of the company paying for that ad. that is why it did not make any sense at all for MacNN to have ads for gateway on the site. MacNN cannot possibly endorse that company, because to promote them is to undermine MacNN's. That is why MacNN no longer displays that add. The issue of the cigar ad is the same thing. Apparently, everybody who has posted here so far other than you is of the opinion that MacNN should not be endorsing tobacco.

[Cipher13]

So because MacNN endorses it... that means its ok to smoke it?

Well, if MacNN says so! *lights up*

I guess it must be ok then!

But only because MacNN endorsed it!

MacNN, if I get lung cancer, I shall sue you for endorsing it via an advertisement banner!




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[elzinat]

first an attitude of "mine is the only opinion that matter," now willful stupidy. what's next, drunken ramblings every weekened?


>sigh<



__________________________________________________ ____________________
[Edit: i am not going to reply in this thread anymore because i don't think there is anything to be gained by anyone in my so doing. People will, in reading the previous posts, either see that I am right or never agree with me. I am leaving it at that.]

[This message has been edited by elzinat (edited 04-14-2001).]

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by elzinat:
first an attitude of "mine is the only opinion that matter," now willful stupidy. what's next, drunken ramblings every weekened?


>sigh<

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying.
How does MacNN having that banner affect anything? Tell me please.

And I hardly displayed either of those


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Misha said it before, but MacNN sells space to advertise. They had an ad for internetboost 99 for wIndfoze up the other day. IO comp[lained. Its stil lthere. They sdon't care who they advertise to. As long as it brings in money...

Play it cool

[mmurray]

Originally posted by georgius:
Misha said it before, but MacNN sells space to advertise. They had an ad for internetboost 99 for wIndfoze up the other day. IO comp[lained. Its stil lthere. They sdon't care who they advertise to. As long as it brings in money...

Play it cool

But they do care really. There are no end of things they wouldn't advertise. You think they would let me pay to put up a banner saying ****? Its a question of where you draw the line in the sand. Windows I couldn't care less about. The companies who manufacture and sell tobacco have knowingly killed and injured millions of people and deliberately exploited the fact that their product is addictive. Sure having a banner ad doesn't make me suddenly want to go and light up a cigar. An ad for some new-nazi group wouldn't have me rushing off down the road to burn down a synagogue but is that the point ?

Anyway its MacNN's call they run the site. I can always go somewhere else. Just interested to hear where they draw the line in the sand.

MIchael

PS. See they do care --- they filter out my four letter word beginning with f. Ironic isn't it.


[This message has been edited by mmurray (edited 04-14-2001).]

[starfleetX]

Cipher13, I understand you are from Australia, correct? Well, I was wondering if you have heard anything about the billions of dollars the tobacco industry is paying in lawsuits here in the USA. A part of this had to do with simple advertising. And, whether you like to believe it or not or even if you don't understand it, these little advertisements have indeed shown to affect people and the decisions they make. Denying this possibility feigns true ignorance. Do you really believe that the advertising industry is a sham? That their work to "trick" people into believing something is in vein?

I do understand your argument, Cipher13. It is valid, but it is not true. People are influenced by ads. Now, I personally do not care if tobacco products are advertised here; however, I do believe that these ads reflect poorly on MacNN as they do give the appearance that MacNN endorses the use of such products.



edit:
I should add that I do have a close perspective on this situation because I live in North Carolina, one of the greater tobacco states in the US. My home town is Winston-Salem, yes, like the Winston and Salem tobacco products. Hell, I even went to R. J. Reynolds High School, named for Richard Joshua Reynolds of the Reynolds Tobacco Company. So, yes, I do know what I'm talking about here. I'm not just spouting conjecture and hearsay.

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¡¡Quiero más Mac OS X!!

[This message has been edited by starfleetX (edited 04-15-2001).]

[oscar]

If MacNN were to listen to all the complaints, we would no longer be able to have advertisements as well. Tobacco is legal, thus making the ads fine. If you'd like to do something about it, talk to your senator, or congressman, about banning tobacco products. my real question is how does cigar.com end up displaying ads for computer power users (which were the ads are targeted at here)

My opinions are my own, and MacNN doesn't endorse them
(Nor do they endorse anything else they don't explicitly write)

[This message has been edited by oscar (edited 04-19-2001).]

[Cipher13]

StarFleet - my other point is that if someone is weak minded enough to be influenced by a meer banner ad, then its better for the human race if they smoke themselves to death anyway

Natural selection. The intelligent, strong of mind live on. Or something.


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[mmurray]

Originally posted by oscar:
If MacNN were to listen to all the complaints, we would no longer be able to have advertisements as well. Tobacco is legal, thus making the ads fine. If you'd like to do something about it, talk to your senator, or congressman, about banning tobacco products. my real question is how does cigar.com end up displaying ads for computer power users (which were the ads are targeted at here)

My opinions are my own, and MacNN doesn't endorse them
(Nor do they endorse anything else they don't explicitly write)

[This message has been edited by oscar (edited 04-19-2001).]

Tobacco is legal in Australia but advertisement of it is neither legal or fine. This - its a legal product argument - is silly. I would argue in favour of it being a legal product because Prohibition in the US taught us the dangers of banning products that too many people want. That doesn't mean you have to allow it to be advertised.

Ahh I'm not sure which Senator or Congressman has jurisdiction in Adelaide - can you fill me in :-)


I agree with Cipher that a cigar.com ad on MacNN doesn't drive me to want to smoke but it does add a very small amount to the attempt by tobacco companies to maintain the legitimacy of their product. I would rather macnn did not assist them in that attempt.

With the wonders of the internet why can macnn set a cookie on my mac that tells the advertising site I don't want to see cigar.com ad's ??

Michael

Michael

[macvillage.net]

Yea, I'm not to fond of those ads either.


I personally make sure that Drugs, and Gambling don't appear on any site I run.


But that's a personal choice, I do agree that nobody is going to get the idea to smoke from an ad on MacVillage or MacNN, but I do feel it's my duty to prevent these ads from showing where a minor could view them.

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Robert Accettura
Owner/Webmaster of

[Dogma]

I only have one issue - what relevance does a cigar advertiser have to MacNN and the computer using public at large?
I never read adverts on webpages anyway except to just the content on that site (if it has adverts linking to kiddie pron sites for ex. obviously will exit at soonest moment).
Personally I have no problem about cigars, cigarettes, alcohol or recreational drugs - if you know the risks, and you're grown up enough to make the decision and purchase then OK. However, I fail to see the significance advertising these products to a community who have chosen to log onto a 'Computer' site, to talk about 'Computer' things. Surely this sort of advert would be more at home in the likes of "The Havana visitors guide", "Playboy", or various 'lifestyle' publications.
Please remember, whilst having a large amount of fully consenting tax-paying adults on these boards, there is also a large amount of younger browsers whom we would probably not want to start indulging in such pursuits, and the 'endorsement' that MacNN provides could indeed be the push that said youngsters require. (I do not intend to offend any younger browsers with my nearly patronising comments.)
Most of us adults watch our writing on this site for the same reason, I would probably write with much more expletives than I do if I did not respect the wishes of others and wish to keep these forums a happy place to contribute.
All I say is to the administrators - Think before you accept the advertising, we all appreciate the work you do to keep this site up and running, and the expense it provides you, but please don't advertise at the cost of your credibility.

(P.S. I do smoke cigarettes, I occasionally smoke cigars, however I do not condone it, nor encourage anyone else to start.)

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"If you can't stand the flames, get out of the bulletin board!"

[Misha]

The cigar ads are not sold directly by MacNN, they are sold by DoubleClick, who buys and then resells ad space for us...

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Misha:
The cigar ads are not sold directly by MacNN, they are sold by DoubleClick, who buys and then resells ad space for us...

I don't think anyone is blaming MacNN... Virtually everyone is involved with an ad management company.

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Robert Accettura
Owner/Webmaster of

[jholmes]

Personally I find the cigar advertising much less offensive than the ads for Wal-Mart who carries no products for the Macintosh.

Why do people get sooooo worked up over tobacco ads? If you don't want to smoke - don't smoke. I kinda like the fact that there's a place online I can order a box of Macanudos if I desire.

[This message has been edited by jholmes (edited 05-20-2001).]

[giantmike]

jholmes, both of your points are invalid:

First, Wal-Mart does sell some Macintosh (usually hybrid) software, periphreals that work with Macs, device wires, inkjet cartridges, etc. So obviously, as Mac users, we can buy stuff for our Macs at Wal-Mart.

With the second pont, you say if we don't want to smoke, then don't. Well, I don't want other people to smoke either, because it pollutes the air around me. I hate going into restaraunts where all I can smell is smoke, and by the time I leave, I am coughing, my eyes are hurting, and my clothes smell like smoke. Those of us who don't want to smoke, shouldn't put up with smoking near us. Us not smoking isn't the only answer.

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Giantmike's Website - Where Macintosh is THE Rule.

[jholmes]

Mike - Let me know the next time you pick up some software at Wally World. or any piece of hardware. Just because something comes with a USB cable and you can download a driver doesn't make the retailer Mac friendly.

As for the cigars - with the exception of an occasional cigar - every three months or so, I don't smoke. My folks did for forty years resulting in Mom's six month stay in ICU and the removal of one lung. She's effectively an invalid, due to the fact that she could never beat the addiction. My wife has a terrible allergy to cigarette smoke and can't be around it. So I do understand the pollution aspect.

That said - it is now almost illegal to smoke in public in the United States. Asside from that it is seen as a moral weakness and a social no-no in most quarters. But it is still a legal product and they are perfectly within their rights to advertise it.

[giantmike]

No, they aren't technically MacFriendly, but they do sell Mac Products (Stuff like the intellimouse explorer, with the Mac logo on the box, comes to mind).

Very sad to hear about your mom

But, I don't know where you live, but here in Wisconsin, it's not illegal to smoke anywhere. Restaruants, bars, even where I work, it's all legal and accepted to smoke inside. I really wish the legislation here would crack down on smoking in public like in California, but I don't see it happening any time soon. A shame really

I am happy to find someone here who doesn't get all over you if you make comments about what they posted though

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Giantmike's Website - Where Macintosh is THE Rule.