[mkbhatia]

We'll be working to update all of the subpages throughout the day today and for the remainder of the week. Broken links (that are not particularly obvious), images, etc. should be sent to webmaster@macnn.com. Design, GUI, and other comments can be posted in this forum or can be emailed to general@macnn.com.

Thanks again for visiting and providing feedback.

Good job MacNN
The site looks great and everthing seems to be working OK.

Dear webmaster,

I have to say that I have been eagerly waiting for a site redesign for the past 2 years. Now that it is here I wish things were back to the old format. Being a full time web designer, I hope that the following comments are taken as constructive criticism.

1) There is simply to much "stuff" at the top of the screen. More then 2 inches of links, ads, tables, logos take up valuable space that could be better used for late breaking news.

2) The site feels claustrophobic. A dark blue with a small white table in the CENTER of the screen is not comfortable to read. If the blue area on the left side is removed it would help greatly. The links on the left side of the screen could easily be relocated.

3) Despite the redesign, information is no easier to find. I certainly hope that you not use the old method of placing "Top stories" arbitrarily at the top of the site and other news bellow it in the "Afternoon edition". I do not want to scan the Top stories every time I visit just to see if something new has been added.

4) MacNN's company identity is being lost in the ads. The logo at the top of the page is less prominent and smaller then the banner ads. If was linked to this site for the first time I would simply think that the logo is another banner. Changing the square shape in better integrating the logo into the site would help.

The new redesign has potential, I hope that this info assists in making my favorite news site also one of the easiest to use and pleasing to the eye.

Regards,
Mark

--

Mark Tuleweit
Digital Graphic Designer
DesigNerd http://www.devlin.ca

Devlin Applied Design
185 Frederick Street
Toronto, Ontario
M5A 4L4

(416) 363-6316 Ext. 225

I have to agree with sucks2bu I think the redesign is fugly. The web page now loads super slow on my cable modem... and my T3 like at work. The whole 2 or more inches of ads and links are way too much. loose the links at the top and but them on the side. The blue border is causing the news page to be thinner and longer... You guys were in need of a redesign but you totally screwed it up... Sorry to say I wont be visiting macnn.com or any of the sister sites anymore

[Number41]

Hmmmm...

I feel I must respond to the negative tone that seems to be creeping into this thread.

Like another user who has posted his comments here, I, too, am a professional web designer. When I loaded up trusty ol' MacNN this morning (which, BTW, is my browser's home page), I was more than a little surprised, and utterly delighted by the change in the layout.

One person commented that there's too much "stuff" on the page now. Well, gee, guess what. It's a news site. By definition it's going to have a lot of stuff. I don't know about other folks, but personally, with a site like MacNN, I like to see as much on one page as possible, so I don't have to click away in order to get to the meat.

I like the blue border. It helps to tone down the disgustingly garish animated ads on the right-hand side of the page. When these ads were against the white background, I always found myself placing my hand over them so I could read the news I came for instead of being distracted by advertising I don't care about (and low-quality ads, at that).

Unfortunately, I do have to agree with the sentiment here regarding the new logo. I like it. I like it a lot. But, sadly, it does seem to get lost in its current location. I think it needs to stand out more. Either the background color of the logo (behind the white "MacNN") needs to change, or else the border color of the whole site needs to change (depending on how the HTML was written, probably this is the quicker and easier of the two). I must also say that I miss the words "The Machintosh News Network" as part of the logo. I think expanding the logo to include this again might also help.

Another reader posted that he thought that MacNN has "totally screwed ... up" the redesign of the site. I wholeheartedly disagree. If you want an example of a site that is screwing up a redesign, head on over to <a href="http://mosr.com/">Mac OS Rumors</a>. They did a wonderful job of redesigning their site, and now, for reasons that are a complete mystery to me (their explanations not withstanding), they're destroying it. They seem to think that not one person changes the default font setting in their browser, and that they can define font tags that assume 12-point Times is universal. I love the content (although I'd personally like to see it updated much more often), but I have to make a conscious effort to ignore their "improvements." Not so with MacNN. The redesign here is just what the doctor ordered.

To the reader who commented that the page now "loads super slow" on his cable modem and T3 at work: How do you define "super slow?" I've noticed no significant slowdown in load time on my paltry 31.2kbps connection (internal iMac modem running through a multiplexed phone network in my apartment complex). In fact, unless I'm mistaken, I think it actually loads a second or two faster for me now.

I say, Great job, MacNN! Run with it! It's good!

------------------
Number41

[This message has been edited by Number41 (edited 02-01-2000).]

I define super slow as 30 seconds or more to load this web page. Other sites like Maccentral and macfixit load almost instantly. I have done trace routes to the macnn webpage from both home and here at work and I have NO packet loss and no latency above .1 seconds... Obviously it is the webpage redesign.-

[This message has been edited by fugly (edited 02-01-2000).]

long time reader, first time caller....

I too am a professional web designer/creative director and wish to add my constructive criticism.

My biggest problem with the new layout is the inefficient use of space. Edward Tufte (envisioning information, the visual display of quantitative information) talks about the managing of visual real estate. a page that is over 1/3 navigation/unrelated content distracts from the intended task of the user and creates a disjointed user experience

on my powerbook (1024x768) over 1/2 the screen of your homepage is non-contextual information/advertising/fluff that I'm not interested in. it's made it harder for me to sort through all the content and find the information that I'm looking for.

indeed the page now seems small, tight and cramped. the dark borders interrupt eye movement down the page and hinder the ability to have "closure" on the content.

the logo does not "pop" off the new background color and I find it getting lost- overpowered by the light grey content block below and the advertisement to the right.

I hope this helps- my goal in this type of criticism is not to bash, but to help you refine and simplify the design to make it much more successful.

aside from that, great site, i visit many times a day!

jonathan
http://www.studio2f.com/portfolio

I agree that the heading section of the page is a bit congested, but the overall design of the page is much improved. The news is now very distinct and the advertising/other stuff is toned down (being in the blue area)which makes it much nicer to read. Great job and I look forward to seeing minor improvements in the coming weeks.

[JimWall]

I'm not a professional web designer, but I do have opinions. I like the new layout. It's fresh, a nice change. I have to agree with the general line of critism, the logo gets lost and it seems a little busy, but this is a free site, and they use the advertiseing to pay for it, so I'm willing to put up with the banners. Rather them taking up to much time commenting on the details of the layout, I would like to bring to this thread a new idea, lets talk about how the information is organized and presented. Perhaps sections for topics and subtopics. Top stories seperated from release info somehow, font, color, something like that.

------------------
James Wall
rtb.ink@mindspring.com

[mkbhatia]

Originally posted by fugly:
[B]I define super slow as 30 seconds or more to load this web page. Other sites like Maccentral and macfixit load almost instantly. I have done trace routes to the macnn webpage from both home and here at work and I have NO packet loss and no latency above .1 seconds... Obviously it is the webpage redesign.-

At about 11:15 am, I changed a few things that seem to make the page load much faster. I verified the speed increases with a few others. Do you see the same thing?

I too am a professional web designer. (who isn't these days) I really don't have a lot of time to get into it, but I have to agree with the previous posts. The new look is pretty bad. I was in horror this morning when macnn first loaded up. I have an idea. You should make an open source style web development plan. I have found the best way to design a site, is to make it in photoshop first and then figure out how to actually turn that into html. I say you make a psd avaliable that people can edit and download. You can take the best ideas and turn them into the final web desgn. That way people (like myself) can't complain because the design would be made by all of us.

Greetings,

I've been a regular visitor to your site for a couple of years and think you provide a great service to the Mac community.

Regarding your new look, I don't like it. It won't stop me from visiting though. I thought the older style was cleaner and easier to read, the new style is too cluttered.

There's my two cents worth.

My 2 shiny coins...

While I appreciate the effort that has gone into the redesign, the end result is an ugly, cramped "feel."

I hate it.

Please consider going back to the former clean, elegant interface that made MacNN the first place I'd always visit after firing up Communicator.


Huck

[suhail]

¥ The new background is nice since it distinguishes the topics. But the great thing about MacNN is the speed the page loads up, let's keep it fast loading.
¥ The new design does not slow load time much, so that is great.
¥ The MacNN logo needs to be better positioned.

Sincerely,
Daily Reader

Well, I'd agree that the logo is too small, and I'm not too excited by the jaggy look of the magnifying glass. What really disoriented me when the page loaded (with no significant speed loss or gain, btw) was the ad for Steve Forbes. I really thought I'd typed the wrong URL at first! It looks like this is a Forbes site, not macnn.

Also, the topics at the top and sides aren't clearly explained or organized, but that's a problem the old design had, too. Your "problem" is you want to give us too much information!

I do like the color choices, and the most important part to me--the news--remains the same.

john

Jeeze... think you guys could get any meaner?

Anyways, I love the new design! It feels cleaner and loads faster for me than the previous design.

I would have to agree with one thing though: the logo kinda get's lost with that banner right beside it. I think the best thing to do would get rid of that banner right at the top (or move it somewhere else) and center the logo... I'm not exactly sure how it would look but I think it would look better...

Oh, yeah, and I do like the magnify glass...

-Nick

------------------
I can't go to work today, the voices told me to stay home and clean the guns.

Man, a lot of these people have no class in how they write their criticisms. I also feel that a lot of these "professional designers" are full of it.

As a true professional, who has a 4-year degree in the field, I will agree with only one criticism that's been made--the logo.

However, most of the criticisms failed to point out that the new logo is very clean, well-designed, catchy, and easily identified--as any logo should be.

I would suggest doing the following, and see how it looks: Reverse the blue background of the logo with the white of the MacNN letters. This might help it stand out from the background of the page.

As far as quoting design people, I'd have to say that this design does not take up 1/2 the page with unrelated material. The overwhelming realestate of the page is taken up with the news tables, as it should be. 1024x768 is exactly what I'm running on my G3, and don't have the window expanded to near that width of heighth, and yet don't see what "mytwocents" is complaining about.

As far as "sucks2bu's" comment on the blue borders, I think he's missed many design classes that stress having a main visual jump out at you. If a white table on a dark blue background doesn't jump out, then I don't know what does. "mytwocents" comments on the same subject are just as worthless. The previous white background did not focus the reader's eye on the news, but required "digging" around on the page to find the news.

I don't understand "fugly's" comment on the page being narrower. It is only slightly narrower than before, but is no dramatic change from the previous design.

Links, ads, and identifiers at the top of the page are exactly what any good web designer should focus on. If you have supporting advertisers, do you think they want their ad at the bottom of the page where no one will read it? Also, identification of the page, as well as navigation, are the two most important items of a website. Where am I and how do I get to what I need, if it's not on this page?

Number41 has made some excellent, professional comments, and I commend his/her suggestions.

Hey, "csmoscard", can you post PSD files of all the sites you've designed so the rest of us can destroy your creations? I didn't think so.

I think there are two camps on the new design. Frankly, those who so upset by the new design, that they refuse to visit the site will just be out of luck on getting timely news, resources, and information, that is difficult to find elsewhere.

MacNN, please continue as is. I was genuinely suprised at the redesign and quite pleased on the readability of the page, and ability to focus quickly on the news. Thanks for your dedication, and keep up the good work!

I think that the new design uses too much headspace. Also, the logo is lost on the page and I do not care for the dark blue. The page looks rather murky.

-d

OK, I've seen tons of posts from "I too am a professional web designer." From a personal standpoint, I'm a professional web designer as well, but I'm not here looking for aestheticcs.

I'm looking for the news. So I'm not going to report 'from a web designers standpoint here'.


I'm quite pleased that the news is still Black text on a white background, and I think the blue-ish colored background is OK, I absolutely do NOT like the yellow border around the text area, it draws the eye away from what I want to read. The new logo is really cool compared to the last one, but I can't tell if it's another banner ad hiding up there with the big one on the right, as well, I think the 'condensed soup' version of the information, or newest info in the table at the top, should REALLY go away, it takes up way too much space. everyone who keeps saying 'well this is a news site' apparently hasn't gone to a news site like MSNBC.COM or CNN.COM lately. When comparing MacNN to those REAL NEWS sites, there's almost an INCH MORE of crud at the top of MacNN now than those sites... Ick.

I just think it is too much.

Personally, I'd rather see that Table at the top, running down the left side, or somewhere else. I'd change that semi-neon heinous yellow to something that doesn't contrast so harshly (it really pulls the eye away from what you're trying to read) and make that MacNN logo BIGGER BIGGER BIGGER or do something else (like a different colored border) to make it stand ot more.

My 2 and 1/2 pennies (from a web designer not reporting as a web designer)

Aesthetically, the new look is a huge improvement. The new logo is professional and "mac-like."

From a user interface perspective, though, the site takes a step forward and then a few back. The header element is large and awkward, and subsequent information is not organized any better than before.

In short, the information architecture needs rethought, then the new "look" could be applied to it, and you'd have a great site.

OK, my two cents worth.

I don't like the color combo, I think its too dark. The layout seems fine to me, 'cept for the site logo, its too small. Aside from those two complaints, I'm quite pleased with it, I've no loading problems, I'm on a 56K connection and it's not slow at all. Brighten up the colors, and it'll be close enough to perfect to make me happy.

Seems to me too many people are forgetting their manners.

I personnally like the redesign. I've been hitting macnn for a couple of years now and I think the redesign is helpful for me as a frequent visitor and generally attractive to my eye.

I like the new logo, but I agree that it could be larger. To facilitate that, I wonder if perhaps leaving out the macnn network links at the top of the page would give some extra room for more logo, since they're also duplicated on the left edge.

Sometimes, change is good. I like the new colors and the new look in general. Don't back down in the face of negativity - if you're seriously interested in usability and appeal, do usability studies and focus groups. People on the web have no accountability and are therefore too rude to be useful.

Thanks for your work.

I like it too!

MacNN has just stolen the throne of Ugliest Mac SIte from MacOS Rumors. I come to a news site to see the latest news items as fast as possible. The new look is a pain on the eyes, cluttered, and confused.



I used to read MacNN daily. I won't be back here until I hear from a third party that this site has ceased being hideous.

[Gregory]

There is a lot of empty space on the left and I would move Discussion up with Services, Network that are repeated down in the middle.

the mid break is "out of place' unless it serves to separate today from yesterday.

I've seen much worse, busy pages with all manner of text sizes and noise.

The top section now resizes with rest of the page (didn't this morning) but not sure their need, purpose, function.

ManNN logo is fine but 'read me first' I expected to be a hot spot button to bring up a new windoid about MacNN or something.

Just came from TechWeb CMP and gee, similar type layout? I like article links (Mac-oriented) on the right instead of top.

There is a blank spot between MacDesktops and Advertising on top right - needs... MacPowerBooks? But why have "Mac" prefix?

Put more stuff in the drop down "News Archive" and more general to include Forums and other jump-off points?

Link to other sites like VersionTracker?

Ad for MaxPower seems like name of site and the text under about PaperPort Free http://www.macnn.com/ads/ads.pl?banner=powermax2 is just so dark blue it can't be read. MaxPower needs to know their banner is on a background already dark blue I guess.

I visited MacNN, went to other sites, came back and it was slow. IE stores pages in memory and my cache is way huge so it should have been very fast reloading would think.

Can I jump to day's headlines? I still end up rereading same stuff if I visit (as I do) multiple times a day.

After first day, I doubt I'll ever read or notice the stuff on the top. Doesn't grab attention or show what is new. I come here for news section and if I see a truly hot buy (deal-mac covers that quite well).

I like MacInTouch sidebar with Reports which I do use. Putting your Reports listed in that News Archive drop down would be nice. Also to jump to past news if I missed (Yesterday, or week's highlights or something).

I like the blue with gold border (school colors from h.s.) and going to an old page with pure stark white, it is easier on the eyes with the new design, softer on eyes.

You're on the right track.

Greg

[Misha]

As far as the content and header/links go, that will be fixed once the back end of our new design goes up... users will be able to customize the appearance of the page, whether top stories should be seperated or included with regular updates (i.e. morning, afternoon, etc. depending on when they're posted), the top links area will be able to be toggled on or off... we're just trying to come up with a generally pleasing look. We're obviously working to improve the current one, thanks to your feedback.

[billybob]

I find it hard to believe that half the people who posted here are actually "professional web designers." I get paid to make web pages for my university, but I wouldn't call myself a pro, and neither should you.

As for all the criticism... I'd have to disagree with most of it. The most common complaint I've seen has to do with logo.. But I'd have to say back to you, so what? Oh no, the logo doesnt stand out as much anymore! Dear christ what will we ever do?!?! I dont know about you, but I come here to read about news and software releases, not stare at the logo.

Change scares too many people. This site has been around for what, 4 years, so you're used to the old look. If it had the new look for the past 4 years, and then suddenly they switched to what we now call the old look, you'd probably all crap your pants. That was my one complaint with this site, is that the design wasn't good, and the news didn't stand out from all the ads and side tables, etc. Now it does.

The blue backround is there to create contrast. Take some design classes. You'll learn all about it. It's a neat thing. Really. Blue and yellow create nice contrast, and the news really sticks out from the rest of the page now. The table at the top, with "apple highlights," "feature stories," etc is nice. It's links to mac-related news on other web sites, something that has never been on this site before, unless I've been smoking serios crack rock for the past 2 years and have never noticed it.

As for saying the news is skinnier now... Think about it. Look at the page. How much have we really lost? 50, 75 pixels? Is that really something to complain about? No.

And to all the people who said they're never coming to this site again cuz of the new layout, well, I'd have to say good riddance. You're here to get news, and the new look is trying to facilitate this through some new link sections at the top and contrast for easier direction towards the news items. If you really honest to god felt the old design was better, and you're willing to give up going to one of the best mac sites on the web because of it, then you have problems. Even if I personally hated the new design, that wouldn't stop me from visiting.

Also, in regards to the page loading slower. I have a cable modem and I notice no differences, plus other people have poster here saying theyre on freakin 56k modems and they didn't notice any difference.

Anyways, pipe down. I'm sure the site will go thru some more changes in the following weeks in response to criticism. If it doesn't, deal. Thats life, and life sucks. Lates.

[maceye]

I love the new design it still loads really fast (and I only have a 56K modem), and looks way more professional. I don't think that there is too much at the top of the screen, but then again I run my screen at 1280 x 1024.

First off: I'm not a professional web designer. In fact, I downright suck when it comes to web design.

I really like the new design, though. It was a pleasant surprise when I loaded the page for the daily read, and it's obvious that a lot of work and consideration has gone into it.

The logo is nice, and so is the layout. At this point, I'm of the opinion that there are a few hypersensitive individuals that will raise a ruckus anytime the dust gets disturbed.

It doesn't, for me, load any slower now than in the past.

I hope the MacNN staff will take everyone's statements into consideration, but I also hope they don't decide to shrink back due to the crass criticisms of a few. Good work, folks. =}

Notes to posters: I'm not sure what some of you hope to say by stating, "I come here for the news"; in case you got confused somewhere along the way, this is, primarily, a news site, and presumably, anyone who comes here does so for the news (or the forums). For some of you who called yourselves "professionals" in one form or another, I'll believe it when you behave professionally. =} (I'm _not_ a professional.)

Thanks for running a nifty site.

[genevish]

Yes, a lot of people are unhappy simply because they are not used to the new site, including myself.

I'm sure I'll figure out what the "Apple Highlights", "Feature Stories" and other links are for. As a long time reader, I already know what the "AppleInsider" and other site links are. Those links on the left seem pretty familiar as well. But if I were a new user to this site, I'd be overwhelmed with info.

I was taught that the starting point for designing a web site is writing down a single sentence that describes the purpose of the site. Then, as you design the site, make sure every element fits that sentence.

(And yes, I too am a professional web designer. I design web sites, I get paid for it, thus I am a professional, whether I am good at it or not.)

You can have a site with a wealth of information that is simply laid out. One of my favorite examples is <A HREF="http://www.fool.com" TARGET="_blank">The Motley Fool.</a>

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

-Scott

P.S. After re-reading this, I wanted to note that I do like the new look overall (and still am a loyal reader), I just feel it could be a bit more user friendly.

[This message has been edited by genevish (edited 02-01-2000).]

I love the new green perimeter! What is it about green thats so reassuring and familiar? Maybe its the fungus on my shower curtain...

It exudes a pleasant, warm atmosphere. It doesn't mess up the clean page layout - news is still easy to read and page navigation is still great!

-peter

I just read some of the other posts and was creeped out to discover that everyone is referring to your BLUE border.....

Either I've got to stop cooking in aluminum pots or theres a lot of drunk surfers out there.....

Aren't your links within news items blue? Thought so. Like any other browser. So what the sugardoodles is wrong with people that they can't distinguish between the new border color and the text links?

Is it blue or is it green? Oh, i see. Someones going to post that its bluish-green and im gonna have to come over and pop them one.

I STILL dig the revised design. Most people hate change - remember that as you think about those people criticising the layout which you've NOT changed.

-peter

[Jokton]

It's Blue-green...

I like the new design. I think it could use a little polish. I dont like all the sharp corners, though. Keep the width of the yellow line, but add a quartered-circle to add round edges to all the tables. Then you could get that refined OS-X look (I like the aqua interface!).

And to all those so-called designers above who say they are going elswhere BOO HOO! what babies...

An Art Director says: looks good. Easier on the eyes. I'm also amused by angry viewers who pick at pieces without looking at the whole picture. However, I'm used to people without experience in art believing they can design better than those trained for it. It certainly is different, but in a positive way.

[JimWall]

A lot of people have been bashing this site for a while now, if you want some really bad sites visit

http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com

There is a list of some real stinkers. You'll find that this one isn't that bad. Right now we're trying to design out own web page and it isn't easy. If you want a really nice web page try Tom Dowdy's page (Tom is the Author of Darkside of the Mac, a very nice and stable screen saver, a little plug for a favored product)
http://www.poubelle.com/Tom.html

I'm sure that a lot of people will find things wrong with Tom's page, but I like it.

You can also try Simon Fraser's page (Simon wrote MT-NW or Multi-threaded NewsWatcher, perhaps the best news client on the Mac, a cool page to and check out MT-NW, it's free!)
http://www.best.com/~smfr/

Neither of these are commercial sites, but I think they show good design that allows for clear communication and shows something of the personality behind the site. If you want a real stinker of a site try BIAS' site
http://www.bias-inc.com

Bias makes audio software for the mac, great software, Peak and Peak LE are really good, but a lousy site. They say that the manuals are online, but it took me almost 1/2 hour to find it.

Thanks to MacNN for a nice site, and timely news, keep up the good work

------------------
James Wall
rtb.ink@mindspring.com

I check MacNN half a dozen times daily and your new design is not only attractive but useful. It loads in just a few seconds using IE 5.0b and a 56K connection, is easy to read and follow. I would suggest emphasizing the logo a bit more, although the logo per se is quite attractive. Now this looks like a news site, and frankly, a lot better than most "news" pages.

Ishan Bhattacharya, MD

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I think the color is too dark-bleak. As one reader pointed out, the darkness makes the space feel claustrophobic (sp?). Also, is it just me or does it seem harder to discern was is latebreaking news-just added news- from earlier reported news (for those of us the check in several times a day). Just my two cents.

I like the new design. Still easy to read, actually easier as there is more definition between ad areas and story areas. Nice work.

[Keda]

Im not a web designer, but I play one on TV. So, as an actor, I can give you my thoughts on the page. (Just kidding-I make sites)

The Header section looks busy. I would suggest moving the 'Links' table to the top (I know people dont like this-but I have to admit, it was very hard to find anything when it ran down the side). possibly, you could include the Macnn logo inline w/this. Try centering the ad, and place it between the header& the content.

I had originally clicked here to suggest that you not spread the left hand links (especially the forums) across the legnth of the page.

Keep up the good. Do you feel ¢2 richer?

Last night I had the flu. It took me quite a long time to make it to the computer at 6 o'clock (which I do every night) to make my last (or in this case, first) review of MacNN. The browser window came up, was blue, and I for a second thought my computer had crashed.

During my illness, I had many a pleasant dream (none of which are appropriate for this forum) but all of which, sadly, ended up being just hallucinations. So when I saw the new MacNN logo come up with the blue, yellow and white colours, I was actually fully prepared to write it off as another great dream that would ultimately end with little dwarves tossing marshmallows at me.

When I'm not severely doped up on Tylenol, I am also a professional web designer. Being that I am doped up on Tylenol now, my comments should not be taken to have any bearing on reality. That said, here is my take on the new look:

- The blue background with the content in white boxes works wonderfully. It really does help you focus on the news (and right now I need all the help I can get)
- The Logo is somewhat overpowered in the top left corner, but it is partly because the links to the other sites sit right above it, which denies it the right to sit in the top left corner. I think those links might be best moved.
- The table of other links is wonderful. I'm vaguely aware that something like that used to exist on MacNN (though possibly it did not), but at any rate, it's great. I can see that being a great resource if it ends up being a bit more dynamic or rapidly-updating. But still, great.
- the stock update and search form being cleanly blocked out is also a great choice.
- If, as you say, you can choose to re-arrange the stories to suit your needs, that would be great. Though it's not always that bad to re-read a section, because that way you never miss anything.

Generally, the other comments in this forum are all valid and true, but just as there is no "one way" to paint a painting, there's no "one way" to make a website. This is a lot snazzier than the old site, but still a good solid piece of work. Just like Aqua, you're going to have to live with it to love it, but I have a feeling it's going to be great.

Now if you'll excuse me, the dwarves are getting restless.

[chadmacd]

Actually, I love this site!
I think it is gorgeous, dont listen to the "old fogeys" who feel cluttered or caged in. It is very well laid-out and everything looks great. Keep up the good work. Keep that mac news coming.

Chad

[Outrigger]

Wow.... new site design. That suprised the hell out of me this morning.
I would just like to say that I think the new desing rocks and that Macnn has always been THE number 1 choice for mac news.

Keep up the good work.

Outrigger

I hate to say it but I wish it was just all white, or just lighter. I don't want to sound like one of those people that is always complaining about new site design, but I was disappointed when I first saw the new front page. I find it hard to read with the dark blue clashing around it. If you could make it more white like this message board I think I would like it more. I'll still read the site though even if you don't change it.

After having a day to digest the new look
I have to say I do like the color scheme
and the packing isn't so bad, but i definitely agree that the top is too busy.

And why not "blueberry" and "strawberry" colors? :-)

The new design is nice, apart from one thing - the page will not appear on WebNote machines at all, presumably because it's overloading the poor little HTML renderer it uses.

I wouldn't care, except there is a WebNote machine in College, and when I'm standing around waiting for a lecture I occasionally like to catch up with the news. Any chance of having a news only page, /news.html or something, with none of the fancy stuff?

Cheers,
Richard
My Home Page

I think the new page design lacks a good bit of the simplicity and clarity of the old page. I'm a large proponent of white page backgrounds, and I've read MacNN for quite a while because it has always been easy for me to find information.

I think the new design is far too dark, and the borders take away far too much from the readable area of the screen. I would suggest removing the left-hand border and making the overall color scheme lighter. The page is far too confining as it is. To read all the news requires more scrolling than ever, because the text is now displayed in a thinner part of the page.

The other suggestion I have would be to do what www.deal-mac.com did when it did a redesign last year: offer both view options.
www.deal-mac.com currently links to their newly redesigned (And I think, horribly unuseful) web page
www.deal-mac.com/classic.html links to their old layout, which presents the same information in a much friendlier, easy to read format. Since I use bookmarks to get to most of my sites, I rarely have to see the interface that I don't like.

If you use some form of database to run your front page, it shouldn't be too hard to have it interpret the data into two different layouts to give people a choice in the matter.

Comments and criticism are welcome. Serious comments only, please.

- John Conner
arcanis@ethereal.net

Please don't sign me up for mailing lists or whatnot. That is definately unappreciated.

I want to go on record as saying that I love MacNN's content, but as far as the new layout goes, I have to say that IMHO you have simply changed from a mirror of Ric Ford's site to a mirror of the Go2Mac.com site. Can't you come up with something original? Keep up the great content work!

the new layout simply crashes my netscape 4.6, and netscape in turn crashes my system. just happened 3 times. there´s a lot of buggy html code, like missing close tags and tables in

tags and a lot more senseless things. i would not consider this in any way well done. i think the person who made this crap (technically, the new look is ok) has really no clue of html and browsers. simply too stupid to use a syntax checker, or understand what it complains about... i cannot return to the pages anymore now, because it would probably crash my netscape again, and i really HATE to use this microsoft browser thing.

I took the liberty of doing my own little re-design on your home page. I've posted it to my Web site (see below). I've been reading through the posts on the Forum about the new layout/colour scheme, etc, and I think that most of the concerns are are valid, and fortunately thay are also really easily fixed.

The top of the page really does need to be "cleaned up" - the logo should be centered, with an ad directly below it. (You may want to try out the reversed-colour logo, black on white, that someone suggested... I think it would stand out better). The Yellow and grey navbar should be moved down and to the left-hand side. I also think the top line of links (to AppleInsider, etc..) should be set off in a different colour - black.

I re-worked the page in Photoshop - take a look at the way I would do it:

This picture- http://www.mezzaninereader.com/macnn1.jpg - shows version one, where the yellow and blue navbar would assume the same colouring as the links on the left now have (just imagine the links continuing on down the left margin, in the same colours).

Version two- http://www.mezzaninereader.com/macnn2.jpg - shows the navbar with the same colouring as it has now. (Sorry about the scale effect, but it's just a quick mock-up and you'll get my point.) I think the first way looks cleaner and distracts the eye less from the main text block.


I hope you'll find this feedback constructive and useful. MacNN is my homepage, and I think you're all doing great work - keep it up!

(This message has been posted as well as e-mailed)


Chris Stearns
chris@mezzaninereader.com

[This message has been edited by chris stearns (edited 02-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by chris stearns (edited 02-03-2000).]

[billybob]

Hmm.. interesting trend going on right now with the mac sites...Apple insider had a new look to it like... 2 months ago probably? As did maccentral, although they partially went back to the old look (but i thought the "new" one they had up for a while looked better).
Now I read a few days ago on MOSR that they're going to slowly be redoing the look of their site (thank god), and then yesterday macnn has a new look to it, and versiontracker.com is also undergoing some redesign (the only difference that I've noticed so far is the logo at the top, although they're saying there's going to be lots of new "services" available).

I just thought this was interesting that all this has happened within 2 months basically.

I forgot to mention nobeige.com also.

[This message has been edited by billybob (edited 02-02-2000).]