[Anthony the PC lover]

If you may have noticed, this forum is used by a VERY diverse group of people. MacNNers come from all around the world to post in these here forums.

Why not make a teeny little flag icon right next to the user name that indicates the country of origin?

For example:

[wlonh]

you mean your PC doesn't show our flags? heck, we implemented that flag bit months ago! jeez, Anthony... guess you better get yourself a Mac, huh?

good idea, A the PCL! but the idea that we are all from one place is even better if you think about it... aren't there enough things to set us apart? nation, state, province, religion, political parties... divisions, divisions, divisions... what about what we all have in common? i guess i am just a Lennonist... yeah, idealistic to a fault perhaps... imagine that! (and a 'Rodney Dangerfield on wheels' to boot)

[Misha]

Actually, what *is* possible is for that left sidebar to display where a person is from (as per what they typed in their member info.).

This was turned on for a while but it seems like many Mac users are paranoid and weren't disclosing their location (just like no one would post their own picture... you remember that, Anthony.)

However, you can stick an image tag in your location which will then be displayed as you would like... not the easiest solution, but it does work....

If there's enough interest I'll turn that on.

[reader50]

Someone turned the From tag in left column back on. Since I had a sentence-length entry, I promply cleared my field. It was making one-line posts much longer than they should be.

And aren't one-liner posts among the best ones?

[bizzare]

DO IT!!!!!!! Have the flag in the left corner, it looks cool. I am a strong supporter of flags in forums

[Cipher13]

Now that we have a from thing, and text can be put in there, can we insert UBB code or HTML that will link to an image of our flag?
Or better yet, how about MacNN gets a bunch of things like the smilies, but flags, and people can use them, get what i mean?

Cipher13

[The Godfather]

I am trying to put a UBB pic...

It didn't work

[This message has been edited by The Godfather (edited 08-07-2000).]

[slboett]

...Just don't use the Confederate flag!

Scott

[slboett]

Um, Anthony, aren't you posting from NY or somewhere back East? That Italian flag may be your ancestor's origin, but not that of your posts! Isn't that your intent?

Scott

Yeah! Good idea! We want flags! We want flags!

The Net turns the ideas of closed countries on its head. The community rules, not the country. That's one of the charms of the online world is that it really doesn't matter where you are from, or what your skin color is, or gender, or any other distinguishing factor other than a shared interest.

Have flags if you want to, but in my opinion that's just too 20th-century divisive for my taste.

Personally, I firmly believe that within the next hundred years countries as we know them will disappear. People participating in fora in the future will be asking, "Hey, how can I get my clan picture next to my name?" or "How can I get my corporate entity logo next to my name?"

Shared interests rule. Borders are passe.

[Anthony the PC lover]

Originally posted by PrivateCitizen:
Shared interests rule. Borders are passe.

C'mon man, that's ridiculous! Your pushing this idea way into the extreme. Of course shared interests are great, thats why we are all here in a Mac Forum, correct? And who said anything about "borders"? I intended for flags to simply distingush the user's location on the planet Earth. I dont think anyone here feels confined to any borders whatsoever, considering we all use the internet equally.

Lighten up, sheeesh!

[wlonh]

Signore Antonio, i hear ya and also agree heartily with Private Citizen

Anthony,

As I said, if ya wanna have a flag, go right ahead. I'm not upset or anything, so I don't need to lighten up.

Nevertheless, my opinion is that, small a gesture as it may seem, it can lead to larger issues. I've seen too many fora descend into childish 'my country rules, yours sux!' threads. Such thinking, in my opinion, is irrational. We are all humans, and the sooner we start thinking that way, instead of thinking who's better than whom, the sooner we can put differences behind us and move into the future.

Yes, I know, here I go again making a mountain out a molehill, eh? Well, it is my opinion that large problems often begin with small beginnings. If flags appear here, some of the charm of this site will disappear for me.

But since this is just my opinion, I'll gladly defer to the majority.

[Anthony the PC lover]

I know what you mean, but racists will be racists regardless of what we do. I just wanted to add a touch of individuality to these fora to lighten up the dark, grey, communistic "we are one" feeling.

And also make notice that no one has to put up a flag if they dont want to. Again, its simply meant to distinguish a user's location on Earth.

[This message has been edited by Anthony the PC lover (edited 08-07-2000).]

[slboett]

Sorry, dude. Once flags are here it will only be a matter of time before you start seeing "...those damn Limey..." threads - trust me, it may start as fun, but will end up not.

Scott

Yeah, Scott, it's precisely those "...damn Limey" threads I was thinking of.

Anthony, I know you meant nothing by it, and I don't care as much as my bare words may make it seem, but I expressed my opinion is all. I did find one thing you said curious, though:

"I know what you mean, but racists will be racists regardless of what we do. I just wanted to add a touch of individuality to these fora to lighten up the dark, grey, communistic "we are one" feeling."

The first sentence is true, but if you add the flags it just encourages nationalistic behavior. It would be like saying let's put our skin color next to our names -- sounds kinda odd.

As for your second sentence, I don't understand why you think viewing humans as equals means a "dark" feeling. Considering some of the darkest periods of human history were precipitated by feelings of superiority of one group over another, I would think feelings of equality would be a refreshing beam of light in our world.

[wlonh]

Imagine there's no country, it's easy if you try... no hell below us, above us only sky...

(thanks John! you were the man, i guess you still are!)

yeah, i know, i paraphrased... did not correctly quote Mr. Lennon...

if you have a copy of that song, 'Imagine', get it out now and give a listen, and know that anyone who believes even a bit of the momentous truth in that song could not be duped into voting for a villain the likes of Dubya... no, rather you'd have to realize that the only good and decent man running for office is Ralph Nader... *sigh*

that is a suggestion and a comment... and i realize it to be somewhat improper in this place, but the real power will forgive me, always has and always will... oh how my heart aches sometimes i am such a dreamer...

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-07-2000).]

[Evangellydonut]

Do not try to define country. There is no country.

(Matrix quote rip-off ^_^)

Oh yeah, if there's a flag, do we get to choose which one? or would we be stuck with the info from the profile? Personally, I live in America 'n all, but still consider myself a Chinese, and much prefer to have a Chinese flag under my name than an American flag...just my random thought...

[This message has been edited by Evangellydonut (edited 08-07-2000).]

[Anthony the PC lover]

To say that racism would exist of we put flags up; I suppose it would. There's always a ******** or two who has to make a nasty comment. I apologize for them, you are quite right.

However, the rest of your argument is completely WRONG. How the heck is putting a flag next to your name the same as putting your skin color beside your name? A flag will symbolize your location; but a skin will symbolize your race! How many diverse cultures live in different countries other than their own? The U.S. sure has lots of yellow, red, black, white, and brown skinned people. Evangellydonut said himself he was a Chinese guy in the Unites States...

And you are wrong about equality among humans. We are all already naturally equal, but the equality you speak of scares the hell out of me. Imagine your world of people who all wear the same clothes, have the same haircut, listen to the same music, have the same jobs, live the same lives.....THATS COMPLETEY INSANE! Individuality and Diversity are things to be celebrated over and over again! People should be proud of their heritage and cherish it, not dispose of it and become a drone in an assembly line of identical mass-produced robots all walking, chewing, breathing and blinking at the same time! Haven't you ever read the book "1984" by George Orwell? Gimme a break!

Ooh, let's all become a desginated user name in plain black font in a plain grey forum! Woopeee! Forget colors, rainbows, self-expression, diversity, culture, and personalities, lets all live in YOUR plain lifeless world!

[Cipher13]

A communist world is an ideal world. Unfortunately the human race is to corrupt for it to work. I don't believe anything as extreme as 'blinking in unison' or most of what you are said was suggested... YOU are making a mountain out of a molehill.
I agree with PrivateCitizen. And as such, will be removing my place of residence from my profile...
I am not saying its a bad idea (I think its a great idea, for people that want to do it), but I don't want peoples images of me being clouded by the fact that I am Australian... not that I care, but if I can avoid it why not...
Please feel free to tear this post to shreds... I'll be back tomorrow to argue it if need be, and I will be thinking much more clearly then than I am now...

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 08-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 08-08-2000).]

[wlonh]

so, Cipher13... predication on the perfectibility of man negates the possibility of communism? could not agree more...

btw, thanks for all your help around here

Anthony,

Let me answer your post step by step:

"How the heck is putting a flag next to your name the same as putting your skin color beside your name?"

In both cases, you are identifying yourself as a member of a particular group.

"A flag will symbolize your location; but a skin will symbolize your race!"

As Evangellydonut points out, a flag symbolizes not so much a location but an identifying affiliation with a country. Skin color, then, symbolizes identifying affiliation with others of that color.

"And you are wrong about equality among humans. We are all already naturally equal, but the equality you speak of scares the hell out of me."

That's because the equality I speak of is not the one you are thinking of. The scenario you outline below exists only in your imagination, not in anything I said.

" Imagine your world of people who all wear the same clothes, have the same haircut, listen to the same music, have the same jobs, live the same lives.....THATS COMPLETEY INSANE! Individuality and Diversity are things to be celebrated over and over again! People should be proud of their heritage and cherish it, not dispose of it and become a drone in an assembly line of identical mass-produced robots all walking, chewing, breathing and blinking at the same time!"

I agree completely. People should be proud of their heritage (or at least, where such heritage elicits pride). I enjoy seeing variation in humanity. Where did you get the idea that I want 'identical mass-produced robots'? That is what you get when you exhibit prejudice towards those who are different -- those who break the mold. I specifically said that I felt those periods of human history were dark. So how could you think I wanted to see that?

"Haven't you ever read the book "1984" by George Orwell?"

Indeed, I have. If you'll recall, one of the points of the book is how the government whipped up feelings of patriotism in the masses, making their country seem better than others. This is the direction I was trying to avoid.

"Ooh, let's all become a desginated user name in plain black font in a plain grey forum! Woopeee! Forget colors, rainbows, self-expression, diversity, culture, and personalities, lets all live in YOUR plain lifeless world!"

Nothing I said gave you this idea, and it is the antithesis of what I believe and enjoy. I love diversity.

However, there is good diversity and bad diversity. Good diversity is such where the 'div'isions occur on matters that do not engender hatred or prejudice -- matters such as 'fonts, colors, rainbows, self-expression, culture, and personalities.'

Bad diversity is such where the 'div'isions occur on matters that DO engender hatred or prejudice -- matters such as which skin color is best, or which country is best, or which gender is best.

Diversity in such matter is delightful, but if it becomes a weapon used against a group it turns into evil.

Now that's getting very serious, but you used very strong language about me, loudly stating how wrong I was, and then mischaracterizing my arguments and making untrue statements about me. The above is my attempt to defend myself and explain in more detail why sometimes I feel diversity is noticed in a good way, and sometimes it is noticed in a bad way.

I do not think you intended anything in a bad way. Nevertheless, my original opinion was stated because of where good-intentioned ideas can sometimes lead. So I expressed my desire not to see flags. Everything else I've said has been in defense of your statements about me.

[disectamac]

That's pretty cool Anthony, I didn't even realize you had put a little American flag under mine in that picture above


[This message has been edited by disectamac (edited 08-08-2000).]

[disectamac]

Misha, How do you insert an image tag in your location?
Will it display on the left side bar?

[wlonh]

it has been tried and no it won't work

and disectamac, why must you post another one-line post instead of editing the one that exists and add to THAT existing one?

trying to pad your post count?

it sure looks like it, you do this all the time... edit, man... edit!

in reply to the post beneath this one:

Misha is far too busy, far too often, it is obvious that i would be more likely to see and respond in a timely fashion and you know this...

you do know the K.I.S.S. principle? edit, man, edit!

K.I.S.S. means: keep it simple, stupid!

apologies for that, disectamac

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-08-2000).]

[disectamac]

No particular reason at all Wlonh, only that one post was for Anthony, one was for Misha, and this one is for you. I figure if I put them all under one post it might take away from the clarity of each post and its intent.

==============================
Me pad my post count?....I hadn't even thought of it till you mentioned it.....

==============================
What's the K.I.S.S. principle?

[This message has been edited by disectamac (edited 08-08-2000).]

[DBursey]

So in getting back to Anthony's suggestion; if we opt out of the flag tag, can we get our favourite sports logo?? How about a Toronto Maple Leafs pendant next to mine? How about you , Wlonh? Rangers, Yankees or Mets?

[This message has been edited by DBursey (edited 08-08-2000).]

[wlonh]

METS, the only team!!! well, ok i like the Knicks bigtime too

[Bockie]

No way are the mets the only team! GO BRAVES!!! Defending National League Champions.

[bizzare]

After reading all of these posts, I realize that there is absolutly no reason to not have the flags. Isn't true if you don't enter you country it will not show up as a flag? So whats the big deal? Let us have our little flags, and the people who think it's racist to show your country's flag, won't.

Thats my 2¢

------------------
-Bizzare

[This message has been edited by bizzare (edited 08-09-2000).]

[wlonh]

racist? please! migawd people, knowledge of semantics and semasiology is sorely lacking around here...

TRY "NATIONALISTIC"!! that is the PROPER term in this instance... you could look it up... and following on the heels of nationalism is the disgraceful practice of jingoism... get out your dictionaries, folks!!

[bizzare]

I never said it was racist. Others have:

Anthony the PC lover, "...racists will be racists regardless of what we do...", "To say that racism would exist of we put flags up; I suppose it would..."
------------------
-Bizzare

[This message has been edited by bizzare (edited 08-09-2000).]

[wlonh]

AND IF you had carefully read my post i never ONCE mentioned YOUR name nor anyone else's, n'est-ce pas?!?

guilty conscience, perhaps?

[Anthony the PC lover]

SO GIVE US THE DAMN FLAGS ALREADY!!!!

[reader50]

Only three flags have been posted in this thread so far.

Based on the amount of argueing, I sincerely hope we don't start branding the rest of the Fora with little flags.

Lets save the argueing for the PeeCee`ers.

[garrettnelson]

well enough bickering go ahead and do the thing already!!

http://mycomp.virtualave.net/image.txt

[MacNZ]

I doubt they'd even be able to get a NZ flag.........darn I hate living in unknown places!

[micha schraven]

As you can see, i am not completely anonymous. My nationality is visible ( though I on second thought it shouldn't be there) but I wouldn't like a flag either.

This might mean people from our own nationality could approach us for every dumb thing (illegal software, the mac they sell) and I do not want that. If I want any of that, I check out the local newspaper.

Any email I didn't ask for is regarded as SPAM.

[disectamac]

well how about this:

a page kind of like the smilies page where members can pick an image from a selection of images chosen by MacNN.

The images could be a variety of images ranging from little character faces to little flags to little icon like computers etc....

A member could choose a smilie or a powerbook icon or a newton icon or a canadian flag icon or whatever is available.


I'm not sure how everyone might feel about flags even though MacNN atracts readers internationally, but character faces, fun images etc might be more contributing than harmful. It would give members more character than just words posted and attract more readers of the fora which means more clickers....


I think I've seen something similar in the Appleinsider realtime chat area where those who sign in to the chat room have a selection of pics to choose from.....no harm there...kinda fun actually.

[Cipher13]

Sounds good to me. Or perhaps make it so people could post a link to their own image, but, have a size limit... eg, limited to 16*16 pixels or whatever...

Cipher13

[garrettnelson]

ok, I posted a perfectly good, legal hack to UBB! why don't you use it? it puts the flag there!! hello?

[MacOS761]

Please explain, garret... I followed the link, but what does one do? Where are instructions, etc?

------------------
We're supposed to sing about piraty things!

[This message has been edited by MacOS761 (edited 08-17-2000).]

[Anthony the PC lover]

WE WANT TEENY IMAGES, WE WANT TEENY IMAGES, WE WANT TEENY IMAGES, WE WANT TEENY IMAGES!!!!

wooooooohooooo!!!!

[elzinat]

like, can like we like have like teeny images, like of like, cartoon like characters and like, stuff, like? and like, then we like can like, identify like which cartoon like networks certain like, people like favor, like and like, then have like wars, like over which like is the like best cartoon network-- like?

aHee!aHee!

[Anthony the PC lover]

I'll smush you good if you keep up with that like-ness

[elzinat]

you mean you don't Like the Likes of me?

[Anthony the PC lover]

like, i like like you. Like, do you like, like me?

[Misha]

Garrett, do you have further information about that hack? We will try to implement it in the near future...

[elzinat]

thank you, antonio! and yes to your question. I might take the "yes" so far as to say "like, duh! the like feelings are like, mutual, like, yeah, you know what I mean?"
but then I'd be being obnoxious.

ps. I will stop now, with apologies to everyone who read this painful plethora of "likes".