[aotic]

I've noticed that a major "interest" on this forum is new beta builds, where to get them (in general terms of course). Whereas on other mac website forums the whole issue of new beta builds, how someone got them, where to get them, Apple's NDA, etc.. isn't even brought up, there posting about really support issues and problems with X. So It seems this forum is the meca for those seeking illegal copies of X.


-)X(-

[keston]

I think any one who wants to get it, can figure out what software/service/protocol to use. But they dont find out here exactly where to get whatever is in question. So mentioning the software does nothing, becuase they certainly wont FIND instructions on exactly where to get it here.... So i dont see how it it meca for anyone seeking illegal software here.

[anonymouse]

The problem is that the public might find access to the builds, however they don't have access to problem workarounds and private info from Apple regarding the builds. It's like finding a car and driving it without realizing that the brakes might not work right or the steering is kinda weird.

[Millennium]

You are correct that we often discuss new beta builds. And every once in a while, we even discuss how people got them. I did that once with the Cheetah build, because I didn't understand that ADC Students didn't get that build and I needed some clarification.

Yeah, there are those who actually do talk about methods of getting the pirated betas; I don't usually participate in those. All I can say is that if the subject really hasn't come up on other boards, I'm surprised.

But as Keston says, a line is drawn here. Never has exactly how to get a new build been discussed.

[Scott_H]

Of course we cannot control why people come here and what they wish to find here. The member's here are registered. Any one who continuously uses the forum for aiding people in the obtaining OS X illegally will have their account disabled and their IP address banned. So far I haven't seen that here.

I disagree that this forum is a "meca" for illegal activity. There have been very few posts where people actually hook up to pirate copies of OS X. People always want to know where people got the build. Often it's from ADC members that are pissed they they can't get it after paying for high priced membership.

The NDA issue is one I will have to look into. As moderator I have not been given any instructions wrt posts that may or may not violate Apple's NDA with their developers.

I think this thread is a good starting point to an open discussion on these issues. I'm going to move this over to Suggestions and Comments where it can continue. Please click trough and find the topic.

[aotic]

After reading your replies, I might have too strongly worded my earlier post. I agree that most people who post are not looking for "illegal" software, but I was stroke by the number of posts concerning new builds and the like. and the number of times I've seen the moderator restate the line between aiding people in getting "ilegal" software and legal questions and anwers.

[Misha]

Compare our X fourms with that of others out there, and you'll see that they're generally 3-5x more popular... so it goes without saying that there would be 3-5x more posts regarding questionable matters than there are elsewhere.

Yes, there are some such threads... but for every such thread I'd hazard to guess there are 50 other, legit, interesting threads.

There's always a few bad apples (no pun intended)...

[Cipher13]

Its simply interest in the status of the new builds and the status of OSX, nothing more.
I've only seen one thread locked lately that might have been because of that - wrongly locked, I might add, by Scott_H.
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum3/HTML/002390.html

But anyway...

Cipher13

[Scott_H]

That thread you linked to is not locked. Maybe you meant another one?

Most often a thread gets locked because someone asks for pirated software.

This thread http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum3/HTML/001484.html
Was locked because of the member that posted,
"so...are you gonna, like send me one?"
Which I considered a request for pirated software. It may be an innocent comment, a joke, but it has to be taken at face value.

The other, http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum3/HTML/002453.html
was locked because anyone with a ligit' copy of OS X build 4k17 does not need to burn it into a boot disk. Therefore this person was asking for help with pirated software.

Also some threads are moved and not locked. They get moved to a new forum and the old thread in the old forum is closed.

[Gametes]

You should stop allowing unregisturds to post. They have no investment in the truthfullness or climate (manners, readability, appropriateness) of their posts, so most often these people just offer annoying one-liners that threaten or demean others, without adding anything to the thread.

I do see two possible gains from anonymity:
1) MacNN gets more "word flow" - more visitors can post so more gets said.
2) Someone offering discrete info can do so "safely" - the "Deep Throat" of Apple, as it were.

As for the first, I argue against this being more important than quality as not only does MacNN have many registered users already, but a measure to make people register will ensure that posts are not made in (as much) haste and brainless, pithy spite. It would also make people more likely to return one they have posted, since they have taken the time to register in the first place. A person tends to their investments.

As for the second argument, while I think anonymity is important, MacNN has made clear its policy of full compliance with The Man in the event something comes up, so you have decided already to dismiss this as a reason for preserving anonymity.

Please, stop unregistered posting!

[Cipher13]

Sorry, I meant the second thread you posted.
Just saw "4K17" in its name and copied it. Oops...
There was nothing TECHNICALLY wrong in there. Was there?
It didn't say how to obtain it or anything.
Perhaps the person was wondering how to make a backup of their perfectly legitimate copy?

Cipher13

[Scott_H]

You should stop allowing unregisturds to post.

I haven't seen too much trouble with unregistered posters. They don't cause as much trouble as the regulars do Plus all IP addresses are logged. So the unregistereds do leave a trail.

[crayz]

Scott: ever hear of proxy servers? You won't have people's IP address if they don't want you to.

[Cipher13]

Or IP spoofers, or anonymisers, or even just falsifying ones actual IP address...
Haha, although the only reason someone should want to do something like that is if they're violating an NDA...
I'd want everyone to know if I'd done something no matter what it was... lol.

Cipher13

[Scott_H]

No I've never heard of any of those things. What are they?

[Cipher13]

Oh ok

Proxy server: your computer dials into the proxy server, and gets webpage data from it. This is faster - proxy servers keep a huge cache of every page visited by people from that ISP, using that proxy server - and refresh data every few minutes or so, depending on the setup. These are generally connected to large pipelines, and being seperate computers, have their own IP, which is what MacNN would pick up if requested.
I don't use a proxy server, but its as simple as changing one setting... very easy.

IP spoofers: simple programs that run in the background (usually)... may be a part of a firewall or something similar. When an IP address is requested, they send back false data.

Anonymisers: web pages, where you enter the URL you want to see, and you see it from within that webpage. Like the Jesus webpage posted in the Lounge I think (that could be one).

Falsifying IP's: Easy as (usually for cable users...DHCP) - get your IP addy, ping scan everything in its 255 address range, and find an empty one - change your IP to its IP

There are even ways to stop your computer from replying to pings at all... such as NetBarrier allows you to do that. very cool.

Anyway, thats just some of the stuff in that area... HTH

Cipher13

[Misha]

I think Scott was being very sarcastic when he said he had never heard of those things... hence the

[Cipher13]

I considered that but thought I may as well post anyway for anyone else that wanted the information.

Cipher13