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turtle777 · Dec 22, 2009, 03:18 AM

So, what's the deal, why does 'NN allow more and more blatant spam like this or the "Ask a Magellan Rep!" thread ?

IMO, this is really very borderline.

I don't really see the value and need for any [ANN] threads at all.
If I'm looking for new apps, for sure I won't look in 'NN threads for it.

-t

Simon · Dec 22, 2009, 03:45 AM

To a large extent I agree with you. I too find these latest examples annoying and most definitely borderline.

However, I assume this is precisely what the [ANN] tags are meant for. People like you or I are expected to ignore these tagged threads. I guess the MacNN business hopes to attract more members with these kinds of threads. It's clear to me that threads like the Ask a Magellan Rep thread don't really add value to the board. And by annoying regulars who participate in all areas of this board they obviously risk driving those away who deliver *actual* content. And of course it's that content the defines the real value of this place. I'll give management another while to figure that one out. I hope that in the meantime this place doesn't amass too much marketing crap or any other baloney.

turtle777 · Dec 22, 2009, 03:58 AM

I don't really get how this would even attract anyone.

Clearly, [ANN] threads at 'NN are a very bad representation of what's out there. Anyone seriously looking for new apps would turn to different sources.

So, all that these threads do is to add chatter to the general noise. Not very desirable, especially in forums that are clearly technical in nature.

-t

ghporter · Dec 22, 2009, 06:12 AM

We clearly need much more stringent guidelines for announcements in the iPhone Apps forum, including (IMO) very specific rules for who is allowed to post announcements at all. Size of posts seems to be a problem too-the Magellan post was amazingly large and spammy, and I don't think it would have been nearly as offensive if we'd required the poster to put it into something like "200 words or less, no more than three images that don't have to be sized, no "buy it now/here/click here to buy" links" format.

imitchellg5 · Dec 22, 2009, 09:14 AM

I think the Magellan thread is pretty cool... I mean she answered my question.

But the "SEPCIAL DISCOUNT" thread is very spammish. I agree that it hurts MacNN. Plus "sepcial" sounds like an infection.

Maybe if the apps they advertised actually looked decent...

CharlesS · Dec 22, 2009, 10:53 AM

I think it should be fine, as long as the OP includes the [ANN] tag in the subject header, and as long as he/she didn't sign up specifically to post the thread (i.e., it should be an already-existing member of the forums — creating an account just to post an announcement thread does seem spammy to me).

turtle777 · Dec 22, 2009, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

as long as he/she didn't sign up specifically to post the thread (i.e., it should be an already-existing member of the forums — creating an account just to post an announcement thread does seem spammy to me).

That would be the absolute minimum: active member, i.e. postcount > 50 posts

That aside, can someone tell me what the real value is ?

[ANN] threads are still essentially spam. Why do we need selective announcements of new apps ?

-t

turtle777 · Dec 22, 2009, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

I think the Magellan thread is pretty cool... I mean she answered my question.

Well, why not go to the Magellan website and ask the question in their forums ?

That's the RIGHT place, IMO.

If they can't support their own forums as well as other 3rd party forums, something is wrong.
My hunch is, they just wanted the free advertisement, and will then walk away from it.

But if I'm wrong, why don't they just clearly say in the [ANN] thread that questions should be discussed at the Magellan website / forum.

-t

besson3c · Dec 22, 2009, 12:10 PM

I wish that the MacNN mods would let all of the script bot spam go, and just take out their links. They are funny, I like them.

Person Man · Dec 22, 2009, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

That would be the absolute minimum: active member, i.e. postcount > 50 posts

That aside, can someone tell me what the real value is ?

[ANN] threads are still essentially spam. Why do we need selective announcements of new apps ?

-t

That would be the reason for limiting them to active members. In other words, the [ANN] should be used for active members to be able to tell us about software they wrote. We're going to be much more interested if we already know the person pretty well.

For instance, I wouldn't be bothered by CharlesS posting a thread entitled [ANN] Pacifist 3.0 released! because I'd bet that there are a large number of people already using his software and they would want to know about new versions. But Joe Blow registering for the forum just to [ANN] their great new fart app is spam and should be treated as such.

besson3c · Dec 22, 2009, 02:45 PM

What is wrong with fart apps? I would like to be kept informed about fart apps, thankyouverymuch.

Person Man · Dec 22, 2009, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

What is wrong with fart apps? I would like to be kept informed about fart apps, thankyouverymuch.

You would, but most people notsomuchthankyouverymuch.

Oisín · Dec 22, 2009, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

What is wrong with fart apps? I would like to be kept informed about fart apps, thankyouverymuch.

You just answered your own question.

Demonhood · Dec 22, 2009, 05:01 PM

this is not a lounge thread.

the guidelines around what kind of [ANN] threads will likely be tweaked in the near future. i've already closed the thread that caused this topic to be started.

imitchellg5 · Dec 22, 2009, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Well, why not go to the Magellan website and ask the question in their forums ?

That's the RIGHT place, IMO.

If they can't support their own forums as well as other 3rd party forums, something is wrong.
My hunch is, they just wanted the free advertisement, and will then walk away from it.

But if I'm wrong, why don't they just clearly say in the [ANN] thread that questions should be discussed at the Magellan website / forum.

-t

Well, because I'm here, and not on Magellan's site.

turtle777 · Dec 22, 2009, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Well, because I'm here, and not on Magellan's site.

So you think it's a smart move on behalf of a software company to start support threads in all kinds of Mac centric places, rather than creating a superior customer service experience in their own forums ?

-t

Demonhood · Dec 23, 2009, 12:05 AM

they're trying to reach out to a very specific segment of the market. give em a break.

AKcrab · Dec 23, 2009, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

That aside, can someone tell me what the real value is ?

[ANN] threads are still essentially spam. Why do we need selective announcements of new apps ?

Why not have [ANN] threads? You don't have to read them. What is the real value of the iPhone Apps section as it is anyway?

Simon · 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by Demonhood

they're trying to reach out to a very specific segment of the market. give em a break.

Excuse me for being so blunt, but IMHO that's nonsense. Which specific segment were they reaching with their huge marketing-rich post composed of large colorful images, lots of fine print, and the BUY HERE links? It was spam and they could have dumped that lousy pitch anywhere. The difference is that here they played it smart enough so their spam was left up (though modified) and their account wasn't baninated. And I still fail to see how management could buy into such a transparent stunt.

But what I really don't get is why a longtime regular is now being told to cut the newcomer spammer some slack. You do realize that it's the regulars that deliver the content that define the value of this site, right? Shouldn't management be thinking about how to best serve the regulars rather than trying to suck up to every potential newbie in the faint hope of increasing page views? Chase out the regulars and you're going to need a lot more than Maggie Magellan to keep this place afloat.

Simon · Dec 23, 2009, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I think it should be fine, as long as the OP includes the [ANN] tag in the subject header, and as long as he/she didn't sign up specifically to post the thread (i.e., it should be an already-existing member of the forums — creating an account just to post an announcement thread does seem spammy to me).

QFT. If a regular posts an [ANN] thread nobody will complain. It's the post and run behavior that's a problem.

From what I can tell they just started implementing such a policy. At least partially. The thread has been locked but not deleted. The OP still has his account. I suppose he's been given a chance to become an active forum member before posting any more announcements.

turtle777 · Dec 23, 2009, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Demonhood

they're trying to reach out to a very specific segment of the market. give em a break.

Let's be honest: it doesn't work.
We have done that experiment with the Delicious Monster forum. They even got they own forum, for crying out loud.

What's the result ?

* half-assed support from DM, sometime the "support staff" came back only after inquires from 'NN
* nobody seriously uses that forum - 1 new thread and post in the last 100 days ?

The 3rd party support thread/forum concept is a FAIL.

-t

reader50 · Dec 23, 2009, 01:31 PM

The DM people left because of a conflict of interest - modding their own customers was bad for business. Unfortunately, they didn't tell us about the problem until after they'd set up shop elsewhere - and removed our support link from their website.

I'm convinced it would have worked fine if the regular staff had handled moderation all along.

turtle777 · Dec 23, 2009, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by reader50

The DM people left because of a conflict of interest - modding their own customers was bad for business.

I guess we'll let Magellan figure it our on their own ?

-t

imitchellg5 · Dec 23, 2009, 06:44 PM

Well, there isn't much activity in the iPhone app forum anyway.