[dedalus]

It looks like you’re not allowed criticise any moderator around here. ghporter (somebody who should never ever have been made an admin on any board whatsoever, as far as I’m concerned) had the nerve to post this:



blatantly anti-Russian biased war-mongering propaganda on a board outside of the political lounge, something any ordinary member would have received an infraction for, but what happens as soon as I report it? Cold Warrior (who just so happens to be another person I had on my ignore list before somebody made him a mod) gave me this infraction:



All for reporting that somebody was using a board outside of the Political Lounge for spreading, well, political propaganda.

And I get an infraction for that? Shame on you. This is disgusting.

[imitchellg5]

I don't understand why you reported it. There is nothing "anti-Russian" about what Glenn wrote. At all. From your angle, you should have probably reported yourself for calling "AV members" part of the mob.

[Big Mac]

There was nothing explicitly anti-Russian and certainly no war-mongering in that post, dedalus. You're barking up the wrong tree.

[Oisín]

So a post that fairly neutrally describes parts of the spamming/virus/Trojan situation should be reported, but calling another member a “condescending prat” and an “arsehole” is fine and dandy?

I see your logic, here.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by dedalus 

ghporter (somebody who should never ever have been made an admin on any board whatsoever, as far as I’m concerned)

Proves that you don't know what you're talking about.
And really, you as a n00b here, that's quite a tall judgment to make.

Glenn is a very respected admin and mod around here.

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Indeed.

My mirror tells me every morning that Glenn is the fairest of them all.

And he is.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Proves that you don't know what you're talking about.
And really, you as a n00b here, that's quite a tall judgment to make.

Glenn is a very respected admin and mod around here.

-t

Glenn is the best. No doubt about it.

I'm pretty sure that dedalus has been around the 'NN before, under a very similar username.

[besson3c]

Dedalus could be Abe... Just saying.

[Simon]

IMHO the OP's complaint is without merit. I believe Glenn is an excellent mod.

However, I fail to see why an infraction should be handed out to somebody for issuing a simple report, regardless of its merit. If moderation thinks the report is unfounded, why not just disregard it? Is handing out an infraction worth five points for something no regular user will ever get to see really necessary? I would have preferred the five points had been issued for the 'condescending prat/arsehole' comment of course along with the one that provoked it.

[Railroader]

Another long time member standing behind Glen. He may be a bit verbose, but he's the fairest of them all.

[hyteckit]

I think Glenn is the one of the fairest mods on the forum.

The only infraction happy mod I know is vmarks. He hands them out like candy on Halloween.

As for Cold Warrior, hasn't he been a moderator for ages? Like when ColdWarrior replace Symantec C++ as the premier IDE for the Mac.

[CharlesS]

No, that was CodeWarrior, and it came out years before MacNN existed.

[Big Mac]

All the admins and mods are almost uniformly fair in my experience.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

All the admins and mods are almost uniformly fair in my experience.

Yup, same here. Notice how the threads about moderator injustice never quite pan out the way the OP must've thought they would?

It's always the chronically tardy who have some personal issue with the attendance policy.

[Big Mac]

Remember that faction that split off from MacNN and created their own forum because they thought they were oppressed around here? Haha, wonder what happened to it.

[dedalus]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I don't understand why you reported it. There is nothing "anti-Russian" about what Glenn wrote. At all. From your angle, you should have probably reported yourself for calling "AV members" part of the mob.

He claimed that ‘the Russians used a cyber attack on Georgia in the late summer of 2008, nearly paralyzing Georgia's armed forces for a time and allowing Russian forces to cake-walk into South Ossetia.’

That most certainly is anti‑Russian propaganda. If one informs oneself about the situation, it becomes immediately apparent that things did not happen that way. The company that claims it did, Greylogic, regularly consults with agencies of the U.S. Intelligence Community on Russian and Chinese cyber warfare strategy and tactics, they’re not exactly neutral or objective on the issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberat...th_Ossetia_war
http://greylogic.us/?page_id=123

Here are screenshots of the two pages, in case they get edited or deleted:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=e1f9ya&s=6
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=tanbc0&s=6

[dedalus]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

So a post that fairly neutrally describes parts of the spamming/virus/Trojan situation should be reported, but calling another member a “condescending prat” and an “arsehole” is fine and dandy?

I see your logic, here.

1. The complaint is about the political element of the post.
2. I did receive an infraction for that other post, I’m not complaining about that. Whilst I didn’t like the way turtle was making fun of jeff’s typos, I could have used less confrontational language.

The one really has nothing to do with the other.

[dedalus]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Dedalus could be Abe... Just saying.

So could you.

[Railroader]

Your funny.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by dedalus 

1. The complaint is about the political element of the post.

Political elements are not against the rules, not even in a thread outside the Pol/War Lounge.

Originally Posted by Simon

However, I fail to see why an infraction should be handed out to somebody for issuing a simple report, regardless of its merit. If moderation thinks the report is unfounded, why not just disregard it? Is handing out an infraction worth five points for something no regular user will ever get to see really necessary?

Reading Cold Warrior’s description, it appeared to me that the post was first reported and not given an infraction by the moderators; then it was reported again, presumably with the “get[ting] nasty” comments attached, which is when the infraction was given. At least, that’s how the infraction text looks to me.

[dedalus]

Well, the thing is, I did not report it twice. I might have been really drunk and could have forgotten it, but I don’t think so.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by dedalus 

Well, the thing is, I did not report it twice. I might have been really drunk and could have forgotten it, but I don’t think so.

Maybe you shouldn't post when you are really drunk ?

-t

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by dedalus 

Well, the thing is, I did not report it twice. I might have been really drunk and could have forgotten it, but I don’t think so.

You reported it once while in Mac Pro and again after a mod moved the thread to OS X. Members should report whatever they believe they need to, but we're not here to take your verbal abuse.

[sek929]

I might have slightly begun to think about becoming interested in this thread had it not been about one of the nicest and well-mannered patrons of this board. It's honestly like starting a thread about how much you hate nice old ladies.

No offense to Glenn or any old ladies ')

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by dedalus 

He claimed that ‘the Russians used a cyber attack on Georgia in the late summer of 2008, nearly paralyzing Georgia's armed forces for a time and allowing Russian forces to cake-walk into South Ossetia.’

That most certainly is anti‑Russian propaganda. If one informs oneself about the situation, it becomes immediately apparent that things did not happen that way. The company that claims it did, Greylogic, regularly consults with agencies of the U.S. Intelligence Community on Russian and Chinese cyber warfare strategy and tactics, they’re not exactly neutral or objective on the issue.

Cyberattacks during the 2008 South Ossetia war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
GreyLogic

Here are screenshots of the two pages, in case they get edited or deleted:

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

Dude. That's not propaganda. It made the evening news here in America. There isn't any reason to make molehills out of mountains.

[besson3c]

dedalus: how do you differentiate between an active campaign of propaganda and simply expressing an opinion?

This place has absolutely no shortage of opinions, informed or not. If you *really* wanted to make the case for propaganda as opposed to a simple opinion you would have to explain how Glenn is affiliated with some form of government that is benefiting from quelling dissent.

Last I checked Glenn does not work for the government, nor is he a political activist. Therefore, he is simply sharing his opinion putting him on the same level as anybody else here.

Look around, there are all sorts of opinions here about pretty much everything.

[tightsocks]

Glenn is a decent mod. Although he does have a tendency to state opinions as if they were fact.
Cold Warrior is just out of control as a moderator...

[SpaceMonkey]

More like it's become fashionable lately to think of facts as merely opinions.

[The Final Dakar]

That's a fact.

[SpaceMonkey]

You're an opinion.

[besson3c]

If I were a moderator, I would infract each and every one of you sons of bitches!

[Railroader]

Can the Smack Down award presenter please take the podium.

[Doofy]

Nowt wrong with Glenn. Other than he needs to grow his hair, obviously.

[besson3c]

Other than the fact that I couldn't coerce Glenn into renaming this place "besson3c world" over private message, he's awesome!

[SpaceMonkey]

I would only note that Glenn has worked for the U.S. government, so the OP's paranoia is not completely misplaced.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Other than the fact that I couldn't coerce Glenn into renaming this place "besson3c world" over private message, he's awesome!

Revisionist historian. You tried to talk me into that.

[ghporter]

I must render an apology for stating something rumored to be perpetrated by the Russians as actually being so. Many, myself included, concluded that the timing of what was seen as a cyber attack on Georgia, plus the way that the Russian military seized the opportunities presented by that event, pointed damning fingers at Russia. This made news here in the US for quite some time in late Summer, 2008. That some other entity took credit/blame for the event did not get such publicity, and is completely new information to me.

[turtle777]

Glenn, you're setting a bad precedence.

If we start to apologize for our (factless) opinions, the Lounge will go nowhere

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Revisionist historian. You tried to talk me into that.

That was after I wrote to Glenn and didn't get a response. You guys are welcome to reconsider your decision at any time. Until then, this place is lesser.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I would only note that Glenn has worked for the U.S. government, so the OP's paranoia is not completely misplaced.

My opinion is that he never worked for the government.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

My opinion is that he never worked for the government.

since this opinion is factless, you need to apologize ASAP.

-t

[Railroader]

It is my opinion that my opinions are indeed important facts and that your opinion of that fact is unimportant. Any attempt at arguing with me will be admittance of your wrongness.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

My opinion is that he never worked for the government.

I was in the US Air Force. Many would strenuously argue that this has absolutely nothing to do with
"working" in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I was in the US Air Force. Many would strenuously argue that this has absolutely nothing to do with
"working" in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

The Air Force is certainly the best thing that the US government has going for it.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

You're an opinion.

Your mother is an opinion.


(This will end in tears.) Except for Glen, who rocks.

[dedalus]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

You reported it once while in Mac Pro and again after a mod moved the thread to OS X. Members should report whatever they believe they need to, but we're not here to take your verbal abuse.

Ah yes, now I remember. I can see why Cold Warrior would object to the report where I called Glenn an idiot, but his claim that the one where I provided two links that clearly demonstrate the propagandistic nature of the post in question is ‘totally without merit’ still does not hold any water.



Might I also point out the irony of somebody with the following signature and stated interest issuing infractions against political opponents:

[dedalus]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

dedalus: how do you differentiate between an active campaign of propaganda and simply expressing an opinion?

This place has absolutely no shortage of opinions, informed or not. If you *really* wanted to make the case for propaganda as opposed to a simple opinion you would have to explain how Glenn is affiliated with some form of government that is benefiting from quelling dissent.

Last I checked Glenn does not work for the government, nor is he a political activist. Therefore, he is simply sharing his opinion putting him on the same level as anybody else here.

Look around, there are all sorts of opinions here about pretty much everything.

Glenn introduced misinformation about alleged Russian cyberattacks against Georgia into a thread about AV software, continued to suggest I buy a tin foil hat because I suggested that there is an arms lobby, and has in the past consistently advocated the idea that the United States military consists of ‘good guys’ and heroes who deserve respect, and told off members who disagree with him. He has consistently advertised his status as a veteran. Whether he is actually in the paid employ of the US military propaganda complex or whether he is doing it for free, I would certainly call it an affiliation.

[dedalus]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I must render an apology for stating something rumored to be perpetrated by the Russians as actually being so. Many, myself included, concluded that the timing of what was seen as a cyber attack on Georgia, plus the way that the Russian military seized the opportunities presented by that event, pointed damning fingers at Russia. This made news here in the US for quite some time in late Summer, 2008.

Accepted. I do realise that the American media system discourages fact‑checking.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Your mother is an opinion.


(This will end in tears.) Except for Glen, who rocks.

Damn you for beating me to the mandatory "your mom" joke. Now I'm going to have to keep watching this thread for a "that's what she said" opportunity.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

The Air Force is certainly the best thing that the US government has going for it.

That's what she said.



-t