[kman42]

My friend is looking to buy a new computer. He mainly wants to do video editing, but is a complete newbie at it (he's also buying his first dv camera). I'm trying to steer him toward a high end iMac or a low-mid range PowerMac. There is some guy in his office who is trying to steer him toward a PC.

The PC guy's main selling point is that he can buy a $1300 PC and spend 700 on software and destroy anything he'll be able to do on a Mac.

I don't know squat about video editing, so I'm looking for some links to articles comparing video editing software on the mac to stuff on the PC. I guess it's basically iMovie (free) vs. free/lowcost stuff on the PC and FCP ($1000) vs comparable software on the PC.

While my friend will probably be well-suited with iMovie initially, he is thinking that he will outgrow it pretty quickly and so would be better served by the PC since he can buy better software without having to spend $1000 on FCP.

What about iDVD? Is there comparable stuff on the PC? He's going to want to burn his movies.

Links? Comments? Advice?

thanks,
kman

[Ken_F2]

kman,

My friend is looking to buy a new computer. He mainly wants to do video editing, but is a complete newbie at it (he's also buying his first dv camera). I'm trying to steer him toward a high end iMac or a low-mid range PowerMac. There is some guy in his office who is trying to steer him toward a PC.

The PC guy's main selling point is that he can buy a $1300 PC and spend 700 on software and destroy anything he'll be able to do on a Mac.

In terms of actual encoding time and effects, the latest PCs are considerably faster than Macs (video editing and encoding is highly intensive, and you need absolutely the fastest Mac you can get). Plus, there are affordable boards for hardware-assisted real time editing on the PC (which can make rendering and effects tasks 10x faster), which you can't get on the Mac. But you should remind him that there is a lot more to video creation than encoding time, time for effects, and even real time editing...After all, what good is speed if you can't figure how what the hell to do, or how to do what you want, or if the app gets you all confused or frustrated...

I would advise you to take him to an Apple store, if you have one. They can demonstrate for him how simple it is to work in iMovie and Final Cut Pro. On the PC, there simply exists no comparable program for the power + ease of use. I mean, hell, I am/was a complete moron when it comes to creative type work, yet **I** still had no trouble with iMovie in the first sitting.

Sure, there are Windows programs that can do many/all of the same things, and do them faster, but they are not intuitive at all in my experience, and working with these apps can be a total nightmare (it's definitely frustrating). And this is coming from someone (me), who prefers Windows for most general tasks. Admittedly, I have not tried video editing on the PC in quite some time (wouldn't want to go through that hell again), and while I understand things have improved somewhat on the PC side, nothing I have heard or seen leads me to believe that Apple has anything to worry about (for now).

I don't know squat about video editing, so I'm looking for some links to articles comparing video editing software on the mac to stuff on the PC. I guess it's basically iMovie (free) vs. free/lowcost stuff on the PC and FCP ($1000) vs comparable software on the PC.

I understand Sonic Foundry's $400 Vegas Video (one review is here) is the main competition to Final Cut Pro...

I don't have any links to iMovie and FCP3 reviews off-hand, but Digital Video Magazine is probably a good place to start. They are a neutral magazine, so you should find some articles about the Macs ease of use, but you'll also find articles about the PCs performance advantage for video effects/encoding. From that site, I also came across links to DVD Creation and Creative Mac, both of which also look like good sites to check out. Both have reviews of Apple's video and DVD apps.

What about iDVD? Is there comparable stuff on the PC? He's going to want to burn his movies.

When iDVD was released, it was pretty much the only software of its kind. However, I understand there are now a number (a dozen?) of iDVD type knockoffs that look similar and claim to do the same things. I doubt they are as easy to use, but I don't really have experience with them. But I haven't seen anything on the PC that is comparable to DVD Studio Pro, which your friend will undoubtedly want eventually, seeing how iDVD is very limited in what it can do.

[tahoe]

I'm not going to steer your friend towards a pc or Mac. he'll have to make that on his own.

But if he wants to try video-editing on the pc, try Ulead's Video Studio 6. Version 6 had been completely revamped from past versions. Most reviews are quite positive and from personal use, quite easy to use considering the feature set which includes direct-mpeg2 capture, smart-rendering, Overlay layer that allows picture-in-picture, scene detection, batch file capture, voice narration directly into the clip, VCD/SVCD/DVD authoring, all within 1 app. It has a structured approach which makes it very easy to use. There's a free downloadable version at Ulead's web site.

http://www.ulead.com/vs/runme.htm

[hmurchison2001]

The PC arguement is ALWAYS based on "you can get cheap hardware".

Apple has the advantage of

1. Best support for Firewire out there. They created it.

2. Quicktime. This is huge. No one knows QT more than Apple.

3. Momentum. Look at Apples recent acquisitions of Shake, Prismo Graphics, Emagic, Zyante and Silicon Grail. Sure your friend won't be buying some of these expensive apps but the purchases signify that Apple is VERY serious about digital video.

4. RTMac is $599 and does realtime transitions and some effects http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/matrox.html

5. OS X. Features like Quartz Extreme should help with compositing and overall video speed.


In summation

Your friend should not listen to his PC friend unless he can break down why he thinks the PC with a $700 app is superior to Apple. I'd like to know why because FCP is growing by leaps and bounds and for a newbie is a great app. I was able to do neat things using it in just a weekend.

Price concerns are very valid...so are speed concerns but the fact is Digital Video requires more "thought" in the creation process. You'll need more "inspiration" than "perspiration" so to speak.

I would suggest your friend purchase a Mac with a DVDR built in. Learn iMovie and perhaps look for a used copy of Premiere 6 or FCP. As always the PC options will be cheaper in initial cost but you really have to ask yourself why someone like Steven Soderberg can capture and edit large portions of his upcoming movie Full Frontal with a Canon XL1s and Final Cut Pro. I find that absolutely amazing that I can purchase app that a PRO has used to edit parts of his movie.

Good luck to him whatever choice he makes. In the end it's going to be his overriding talent that make the difference.

[machiavel]

I've never done any actual video editing, but I've worked in the industry and shot dozens of videos. The professional video editors I know overwhelmingly favor the Mac. Yes, you can get a very fast PC for not a lot of money, but speed is over-rated, especially for someone just learning. I know of people that edit video on an iMac G3 with FCP who have no problems speed-wise. They just do all the intensive stuff, the rendering, at night. What is important is not that it fast, but that its dependable, that it doesn't, for example, drop frames. Maybe PCs are better now, but a few years ago, even the expensive PC systems had problems with dropping frames. Video editing can be extremely frustrating when it doesn't work right. I think your friend is asking for a lot of gratuitous frustration if he decides to go with a PC.

[flatcatch]

Originally posted by kman42:
While my friend will probably be well-suited with iMovie initially, he is thinking that he will outgrow it pretty quickly and so would be better served by the PC since he can buy better software without having to spend $1000 on FCP.

Has your friend taken any college courses recently? The student price for FCP is only $300. A friend of mine just finished a short FCP media course (I think just 1 or 2 weeks) and she qualified for the student discount (at least at the Stanford book store).

[tr]

read my rant


http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...threadid=42833


tr

[tahoe]

tr, I read your rant. Pinnacle's entry-level stuff is over-rated. I have no such problems with Ulead's Video Studio 6. I've used Maxtor's FW card for 2 1/2 years now w/o dropping a single frame. My main beef with using iMovie2 is having to convert anything not DV with QT Pro.I'd be much nicer to be just able to drop a clip in, be it QT, mpeg1, mpeg2, homemade .vob, .dat files without any worries.

With VS6, it's easy to use, combines QTPro, iMovie2, and iDVD2 into one app, and has infinitely better format support. It does VCD, SVCD, MiniDVD, and DVD. It has advanced features such as direct-mpeg2 capture, smart-rendering, an overlay layer which makes picture-in-picture easy, direct voice narration, and other things. True, it's $90-100. Considering what it does, it's more than worth the price.

The only negatives I can give VS6 is that the menu creation functions for VCD/SVCD/MiniDVD/DVD is limited compared to iDVD2's. VS 6's menu creation is mostly template driven with presets to choose, the variables being able to pick which thumbnail to use, changing the titles, music, and background image. There's no motion menus, no selectable/relocatable buttons. Ulead saved those for its higher end DVD Workshop. But it does scene selection which makes a big difference in how I make a movie.

With QTPro/iMovie2/iDVD2, I capture/import clips, apply effects/transitions/titles, render. Repeat as many times as needed, then I author the DVD.

with VS6, it's capture/load all clips, apply effects/transitions/titles, render titles/transition/effects (no need to render the clips themselves because they're already in mpeg2 format), and author as VCD/SVCD/MiniDVD/DVD, make an image, or an mpeg2 file. To get the points for scene selection, just run the slider along the length of the movie and choose. If I want different thumbnails for that point, it's similar to iMovie2's move the slider and pick. I definitely find the workflow much better with VS6.

Add: it also supports DVDR/DVDRW/DVD+R/DVD+RW drives and discs. And those without DVD burners don't miss out on the DVD-authoring experience because VS6 supports MiniDVD's using regular cdr/cdrw's. True, they only hold about 20 minutes of DVD footage. But, it's more than enough to view a vacation or something, and they play on most, if not all, DVDROM drives and a few regular DVD players.

For an entry-level app, VS6 is about as complete as it gets. Too bad Ulead has to live down the fact that the previous versions of VS were dogs. VS6 has been completely revamped and for now my current entry-level favorite until I see what iMovie 3 and iDVD3 have to offer.

[dlefebvre]

FCP is a very solid application with lots of possibilities. I've work on many editing systems. Discreet Edit, Avid Express, Avid Media Composer and Avid DS. For the price, nothing beats Final Cut (especially not Avid DV express). It's efficient and it includes some bulit-in compositing features that are not even available on a Media Composer. There's cheaper editing software out there, but to get the same result as Final Cut you sometimes need extra software like After Effects or some other compositing package. As for real time effects you can get a Matrox RT Mac card. If you can get a student price on FCP go for it, $300 is a real bargain.

[stefls]

Originally posted by flatcatch:


Has your friend taken any college courses recently? The student price for FCP is only $300. A friend of mine just finished a short FCP media course (I think just 1 or 2 weeks) and she qualified for the student discount (at least at the Stanford book store).

Incredible: only $299,- indeed. Guess what: EUR 570,- over here (also edu-price)...