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corp miler · Jun 23, 2003, 05:10 PM

I'm looking for a little digital camera buying advice. I have been using a traditional 35mm for vacation and family photos which takes great photos. But, it's becoming cumbersome and I just had a bit of a film incident where 5 of 6 roles of vacations photos were ruined -- zapped in the airport I guess. I have a miniDV which I love and edit everything I shoot in iMovie. So I'm thinking its about time to go digital on the photos as well. I have NO idea where to start (I have searched several sites but usually the posts are specific). I would like something to shoot simple vacation and family photos, use with iPhoto and order prints. 5 x 7 print size would be as large as I'd use. I'm not interest in many features other than point, zoom, and shoot. Simple is best. Most of my trips are the semi-adventurous outside type so I don't want something too fragile. The weather proof Olympus sounds great especially if you can get dirt on it or drop in the water while kaiaking, but I read somewhere that it isn't the best for true color. Any suggestions in the under $400 range or is that asking for too much?

Also, does the print service from Apple? Is the print quality similar to film? Do you need to be a .Mac subscriber? Thanks.

zigzag · Jun 23, 2003, 06:29 PM

corp, you should be able to do what you want for under $400. A 2 megapixel camera will do but 3 megapixels will give you more breathing room if you do any editing or cropping. Bear in mind that you'll need to budget extra $$ for a larger memory card (you can get a 256 MB Compact Flash card for only $50 if you shop around - check dealmac.com every day).

Two things to consider - do you want proprietary batteries, or do you want to be able to use regular AA batteries? With the latter, you can always find replacements if you run out of power, and there are lots of rechargeable varieties available. But proprietary batteries tend to be more compact and sophisticated. If you get a camera with a proprietary battery, you'll probably want to budget $$ for an extra one - digicams tend to eat a lot of battery power.

Also, do the batteries charge inside the camera, or on a separate charger? IMO the latter is preferable - you can keep using your camera while your replacement batteries charge.

I always recommend that people go to a store and handle different models - I think it's important that a camera feel right in your hands so you'll enjoy using it. For example, do you like the way the zoom control works? Can you look through the viewfinder without bumping your nose?

I would steer you towards a Canon, perhaps the A70, but that's because I'm partial to Canons generally for their quality and user-friendliness. Another one I like is the Nikon 4300. I'm not familiar with the Olympus, but they also make good cameras. I'm sure there are other good ones out there.

I don't think you have to subscribe to .mac to use Apple prints - I think you can get them direct from iPhoto. You can also go to almost any processor and get prints straight from your memory card. Compact Flash cards are the cheapest and most common memory cards.

iStudent 2003 · Jun 24, 2003, 01:14 AM

Corp, since your looking for a point and shoot camera, and $400 is your budget, I would personally go with the Canon A70. Because it h delivers:

Great picture quality (3.2 megapixel)
Uses standard AA batteries (get some good rechargeable ones)
Has the ability to add close-up, wide angle and telephoto lenses
Support for underwater case
Great Mac OS X software bundle

You can find it on Yahoo Shopping for about $230; and you can find a SanDisk 256 MB Compact Flash card for about $55 there too.

I agree with zigzag, go to a store like BestBuy and play around with it.

Some other cameras that you might want to look into are the Canon S400 and the Nikon 4300.

The Canon S400, is smaller than the A70 and is a 4 megapixel (which means more money, than the A70), but it use a proprietary battery and does not have the ability to add lenses.

The Nikon 4300, is bigger than the Canon A70, is a 4 megapixel (again more money then the A70), but it use a proprietary battery and you can not add lenses. Plus Nikon�s software boundle isn�t as good as Canon�s.

One Canon that I would stay far away from is the S45, the four-way switch on the back is extremely poorly designed. Does not have the ability to add lenses, uses a proprietary battery, and to turn it on you have to move the lenses cover back.

Please write back =)

wallinbl · Jun 24, 2003, 01:12 PM

I find the proprietary battery comments peculiar. I have the Canon S230, which uses a proprietary battery. Doesn't make any difference to me. I have two batteries for it and a charger. They charge very quickly, and have good usable life. It's better than my APS camera that uses a standard battery that I have to replace every few rolls for $8.

I highly recommend the S230. It takes great pictures, it has a metal frame (very sturdy), and it fits easily into your pocket. I never though much about the size, but it is great to be able to put the camera in my pocket.

memento · Jun 24, 2003, 03:20 PM

I like Canons. I've had 2 now and my father has one. The picture quality is great. Maybe consider the Elph? Looks nice and simple. Proprietary battery has never been an issue with me. My Canon G2 has the same battery that they use in the DV cameras. It lasts hundreds of pictures with LCD and some flash before needing a charge.

zigzag · Jun 24, 2003, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by wallinbl:
I find the proprietary battery comments peculiar. I have the Canon S230, which uses a proprietary battery. Doesn't make any difference to me. I have two batteries for it and a charger. They charge very quickly, and have good usable life. It's better than my APS camera that uses a standard battery that I have to replace every few rolls for $8.

I have a Canon S100 Elph, with two proprietary batteries, just like you. The reason it can make a difference is that if you travel to places where charging is inconvenient or unavailable and your batteries die, you're done. If you can use AA batteries, which are available virtually anywhere, you have more options. Also, unlike the battery on your APS camera, AA batteries are rechargeable.

I've gotten along well with my proprietary batteries, but some people prefer AAs.

wallinbl · Jun 24, 2003, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by zigzag:
I have a Canon S100 Elph, with two proprietary batteries, just like you. The reason it can make a difference is that if you travel to places where charging is inconvenient or unavailable and your batteries die, you're done. If you can use AA batteries, which are available virtually anywhere, you have more options. Also, unlike the battery on your APS camera, AA batteries are rechargeable.

I've gotten along well with my proprietary batteries, but some people prefer AAs.

Yes, but the battery life using AA batteries is horrible in my experience.

DeathMan · Jun 25, 2003, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by wallinbl:
Yes, but the battery life using AA batteries is horrible in my experience.

I concur. I don't like AA batteries. The rechargable AA batteries are flat in like 2 seconds.

spiky_dog · Jun 25, 2003, 03:54 PM

i have a canon s30, and don't find the rocker switch all that annoying. the s45 would make a fine $400 camera, but unless you need one of the features it has over the s400, i'd go for the s400 instead. or the pentax optio s even, if small is your thing.

www.dpreview.com has more reviews than you can shake a stick at. models that are "highly recommended" in the conclusions page of the reviews are good bets.

scottiB · Jun 25, 2003, 05:19 PM

I've had a camera that used AAs (Ricoh RDC-5000) and proprietary (Canon S230 Elph), and it really depends on how much you'll be traveling with it (or anticipate being away from electricity).

I prefer proprietary, but I don't travel much and always have the batteries charged (you get into a habit). Since you travel with a camcorder, I'm sure you can't be that far from electricity for too long. There are car cigarette-lighter adapters that can be purchased, too.

Look for any camera that has 3x optical zoom and 3 megapixels for what you want to do (the S230 has a 2x zoom and 3MP and will work well for medium range snaps).

The Canon Elph batteries are smaller in weight and volume than two AAs. Three would last 300-400 shots, at least--enough to fill a 512MB CF card (for an S230).

d0ubled0wn · Jun 25, 2003, 05:43 PM

Canon's are great. I have an older PowerShot S20, excellent quality pics. My scanner is also a Canon, and I plan on replacing my crappy Lexmark inkjet with a Canon i850 very soon.

bluejam · Jun 27, 2003, 08:13 AM

Hot tip for digital camera info...www.dpreview.com

I also reccomend the Canon A70.

palmberg · Jun 27, 2003, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by wallinbl:
I highly recommend the S230. It takes great pictures, it has a metal frame (very sturdy), and it fits easily into your pocket. I never though much about the size, but it is great to be able to put the camera in my pocket.

This is, indeed, a great digital camera. If you're interested in what kind of pictures it takes (with a newbie behind the lens), check out this site:

http://homepage.mac.com/palmberg/tier2003/bike.htm

My mom took the S230 on her X-country bike ride and took probably a dozen pictures every day of the week for a couple months.

corp miler · Jul 2, 2003, 03:51 PM

Thanks for all the responses. It looks like a 2-3x zoom and 3 meg Canon is the way to go. Are these cameras safe to take the beach or say hiking in humid rain forest or is this a bad idea? I bought a brand new Sony miniDV and on the first trip someone dropped it in the sand! Fortunately it still works fine, but it was a tense few moments as I acted as though I didn't mind seeing my new $1500 camera covered in sand. Has anyone heard anything about the new Olympus all-weather camera?

Rhino99 · Jul 4, 2003, 11:30 AM

Hey Corp,
I find the digital camera decision quite a chore to obssess over. It sounds like you have some definite idea of priorities. I recommend a site called Digital Camera Resource Page (DCRP). There are friendly discussion groups arranged by brand and other topics, and lots of practical reviews that I have found to be the most helpful of any site. (One note: Jeff the proprietor has a definite bias in favor of AA batteries, but he does understand the need for proprietary types sometimes).

http://www.dcresource.com/

Another useful site is Steve's Digicams:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/

For the money, I have preferred the Nikons and Canons, with the Canons getting a slight nod for image quality. The Nikons have a lot of nice presets for taking particular types of pics. I've seen the Olympus cameras do some nice work and some pretty mediocre shots. They generally do a poor job in lower light situations. Unfortunately (?) I have no experience with the moisture factor in any cmaeras and can't address that for you but hopefully someone at the forums can.

Good luck, have fun.

Rhino99 · Jul 4, 2003, 11:35 AM

I see the DP Review has a huge forum section. I never knew. Curious there seems to be no site review of the Canon A70, tho, one of the most popular cams of the last few months.

iStudent 2003 · Jul 4, 2003, 12:27 PM

Here are some Canon A70 reviews:

Digital Camera Resource:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ca...ew/index.shtml

Steves Digicams:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/a70.html

tooki · Jul 5, 2003, 02:47 PM

Check the price for the Nikon Coolpix 4500... for a while, Nikon was offering a $200 mail-in rebate on it, bringing it down to under $400!!! It's a fantastic camera, so if that deal is still around, it's worth looking into.

I happen to prefer rechargeable Lithium-Ion over AA... I have a Coolpix 4500, and can get a whole evening's worth of pix out of one charge, using lots of flash. (The battery is empty LONG before I can fill the 256MB memory card I have.) But it can also use a disposable Lithium photo battery in a pinch.

I plan on getting extra batteries and chargers (it's under $50 for both), you may want to consider the same.

The other accessory I highly recommend is a USB memory card reader, which will not only save wear and tear on the camera's USB port (cameras usually have tiny, fragile USB ports), but it saves battery, since the camera uses power if it's being used to read the card. I recommend the SanDisk 6-in-1 reader... it's USB 2.0 high-speed, if you ever get a G5, and it has both a cradle with a long cable (for desktops) and a cord that connects directly to the reader (for laptops). Works beautifully with iPhoto.

tooki

corp miler · Jul 11, 2003, 09:34 AM

So I think I'm down to three: Canon A70, Sony something 72, or the Olympus Stylus 300 (I can't find a Nikon deal locally). I was reading the reviews about the Canon A70 ($299). It looked like the red eye wasn't as good as the Stylus 300 ($399) and there can be a funky purple hallow thing? I've been liking the Stylus' "all weather" feature even though it's a bit more money, but Apple site doesn't say it is supported in iPhoto. That seems odd to me. Does that mean I can't use it with iPhoto? That was my objective here. I'm leaning towards the Canon or the Olympus because I can pick either up at Costco. Costco has an awesome return policy (goes bad in 2 years? exchange it!) so no need for an extended warranty!