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plyxrbo · Nov 5, 2003, 07:36 AM

i am interested in this (3iVX d 4.04) product as a way to deliver hi-quality mpeg-4 videos for my website. does this codec require the codec to be installed on the receiving workstation, or will 3iVX encoded videos play normally using quicktime 6.4?

any help or real life testimonies are desired.

thanks!

memento · Nov 5, 2003, 07:41 AM

I use it the opposite way. I encode with apple's mpeg-4 using cleaner, but playback with 3ivx because it's faster. Maybe you could just try a small clip and see if it works your way?

plyxrbo · Nov 5, 2003, 10:45 AM

when you say playback with 3iVX...? is there a separate 3iVX player, or do you mean, just view it inside of quicktime?

also, what exactly do you mean by it's faster? playback is playback right? or am i missing something?

Beewee · Nov 5, 2003, 11:43 AM

I encode using a program called Diva, its a free program and is really sweet for encoding in multiple formats. (So-far I have only used it for VOB files haven't tried it with any other video) Not only that but you can use it specify aspect ratio of the screen and it does a decent job of de-interlacing video. I usually go with D4 4.0.4 at a varied bitrate at 90% quality. Depending on the dimensions you want and quality will increase or decrease the file size. I was able to fit the movie "Phone Booth" on a CD with 192Kbp MP3 audio. It was by no means DVD quality but you gotta mess around with it for a while til you get what you want.

Good luck
Links:
D4 4.0.4 Codec and DiVa encoder

memento · Nov 5, 2003, 12:48 PM

plyxrbo - I mean the 3ivx quicktime component, using quicktime for playback. I usually have a whole slew of programs running at once. With high bitrate mpeg-4, my DP867 will stutter on the playback if quicktime is using Apple's mpeg-4 to decode. If Quicktime is using 3ivx, then there will be little or no stuttering and less CPU usage on the same movie. Also scrubbing through the movie is smoother with 3ivx.

If apple's mpeg-4 worked for me, I'd stick with it. It all depends on how you use your machine.

plyxrbo · Nov 5, 2003, 01:02 PM

i have done a series of tests this afternoon using the 3iVX codec. i must say, i am very impressed. not only do i consistently get better results than those i get with QT's mpeg-4 output, i get even smaller file sizes.

my question is this ... i do not want to burn a lot of files in this format if it is not going to be around for long ... hence, my reluctance to use it and stay with the poorer quality mpeg-4. add to that the hassle of having users download yet another codec and you see the dilemma.

Uncle Skeleton · Nov 5, 2003, 01:28 PM

1. Using the current version of 3ivx, the end user must have 3ivx installed, UNLESS you use OpenShiiva to encode, which puts it in an mp4 file format instead of mov, which for some magic reason Apple's mp4 decoder agrees to decode. Then next version of 3ivx will be playable by Apple's decoder in any file format. This version is code frozen, and only awaits some silly lisencing issues to be worked out.

2. Playback engines differ in quality almost as much as Encoders. Since DivX, 3ivx, Xvid, Sorenson MPEG4 and Apple MPEG4 all adhere to the MPEG-4 specification, they can all (technically) decode each other's output (if the codec agrees to try, based on the file's identifying FourCC code). But 3ivx is the fastest at decoding, so on slower machines it gets fewer dropped frames, and on faster machines it has more time left over to filter the image to make it look better.

3. DiVA does not read non-MPEG-2 source files. I don't know where you got that idea. Since it uses ffmpeg to decode, the idea of adding support for more formats has been discussed, but it hasn't been implemented. The competing product OpenShiiva does support many other formats, but that support is hit-or-miss (I can never seem to get it to decode an MPEG1 file).

4. Regarding the staying power of 3ivx, I fully expect the product to be around for a long time. But even if somehow all the developers are struck by lightening and the code is lost, it is still the most compliant MPEG-4 codec available, and MPEG-4 is an open standard, so there is absolutely no reason that any of your files wouldn't be playable at any time in the future by any MPEG-4 compliant decoder.

5. it's "3ivx", not "3ivX" or "3iVX" or "3IVX"

plyxrbo · Nov 5, 2003, 01:36 PM

ooops ... 3ivx it is!

thanks for that thorough analysis.

now for another question. why is apple's qt mpeg-4 output so crappy?

i mean, it is nowhere near the same quality of 3ivx.

Uncle Skeleton · Nov 5, 2003, 02:13 PM

Jack of all trades, master of none. Apple's business is hardware. they also make a kick-ass operating system. A spin-off of that is QuickTime, and an acquisition of that was (probably) Sorenson's MPEG-4 encoder, which was several years old and halfway abandonned.

3ivx on the other hand is dedicated solely to making a great MPEG-4 codec, and it's their primary interest. They use cutting-edge technology and they don't get distracted by other projects. They're specialists

plyxrbo · Nov 5, 2003, 06:04 PM

gotcha. well ... i am very impressed with their product. all the more because it is free and really does a great job ...

again, my only concerns are saddling users with yet another download and install. but i guess there is no way around that, huh?

Uncle Skeleton · Nov 5, 2003, 06:29 PM

like I mentioned before, the one way to currently avoid that is to do the encode with OpenShiiva. The output of that will be recognized by QuickTime as its own mpeg-4 codec, even after saving as a mov file. And if 3ivx is installed on the end machine, the video will look even better there (just like decoding Apple's codec with 3ivx makes it look better).

krisneph · Nov 5, 2003, 08:32 PM

Can these movies be played back from Windows Media Player with the plugin. How will they play on older PS's. I make movies that need to be played on projector though a old PC. Orignaly I wanted to use mp4 but Media Player won't play it but if I can put the 3ivx component it's worth it It looks great.

Uncle Skeleton · Nov 5, 2003, 11:28 PM

yes, install 3ivx and mp4 (and mov) will work in nearly every app

plyxrbo · Nov 7, 2003, 10:08 AM

okay, i downloaded and installed openShiiva. i want to burn a cross-platform mpeg-4 video based on 3iivx codec, but that will play in ANY quicktime user's player.

do i just export to the 'qt' format as opposed to the others? i guess i am looking for a step-by-step instruction if there is such a beast.

Uncle Skeleton · Nov 7, 2003, 11:40 AM

do i just export to the 'qt' format as opposed to the others?

yes

do i just export to the 'qt' format as opposed to the others?

if you have specific questions I can probably answer them, though I rarely use this program. If you want someone to hold your hand the whole way through, try the program's forums:

http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=260097

also read that ginormous document that opens the first time you run the program (or found in the Help menu)

plyxrbo · Nov 7, 2003, 03:46 PM

gotcha ... thanka

plyxrbo · Dec 13, 2003, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by plyxrbo:
i am interested in this (3iVX d 4.04) product as a way to deliver hi-quality mpeg-4 videos for my website. does this codec require the codec to be installed on the receiving workstation, or will 3iVX encoded videos play normally using quicktime 6.4?

any help or real life testimonies are desired.

thanks!

the new 3ivx codec (version 4.5) does not require 3ivx on the receiving computer. nice!

Nap · Dec 13, 2003, 01:10 PM

It works with any version of QT6, not just 6.4. I have 6.03 installed and when I temporarily removed the 4.5 codec QT still played a 4.5 video.
It has to be the fastest encoder I have ever used. On my 700 mhz eMac it encodes 43 minutes of 320x240 15FPS video in 24 minutes. Even 30FPS of the same resolution took slightly less than 1x to encode, namely about 37 minutes for 43 minutes of video at 320x240. My USB digitizer doesn't capture 640x480 but I would imagine it would still tear through that size if I had it. How's this for a testimonial?

plyxrbo · Dec 13, 2003, 01:32 PM

i've also been experimenting the with 3ivx 4.5 dual pass option. seems to be pretty clever. the only problem i have encountered is that it is not a seemless process.

you first have to encode the first pass and then manually switch to the 2nd pass.

i was a little frustrated at first because this is not clear in the documentation.

oh well, what do you expect for free? it works beautifully and produces rich, sharp video that rivals cleaner.

i'll state again ... apple should license this version of mpeg-4 and include it with their quicktime pro versions. it is a much better codec than the one they include.