Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

StiZeven · Nov 23, 2003, 12:47 AM

I have a PowerBook with a SuperDrive on order and want to get into making my own (short) DVDs with footage that I take. I am looking at the following camera (the amazing little Panasonic D-Snap SV-AV100):

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...camcorders.asp

My question is, will this camera work with iDVD? From what I've read, once a video is recorded, you change the extension to .vob and a Windows machine and that will enable you to view (play it) and manipulate it natively. I am wondering if this would be the same on the Mac? What kind of files are imported into iDVD?

If not, can anyone recommend a good (small) Digital Camcorder like this that works great with the Mac and iDVD? My budget is around $1000 (preferably less) and SD technology is preferred (it's tiny and VERY fast).

Thanks for any info!

Hydra · Nov 23, 2003, 06:45 AM

As far as I can tell that camcorder uses MPEG compression to record. MPEG is really a viewing format and is not so good for editing. Compression will almost always add artifacts and be of lower quality. MiniDV camcorders record in what is an essentially an uncompressed format and is going to be superior for editing and final quality. To get anywhere near the quality of MiniDV that SD camcorder will burn through a 512MB card in about 10 minutes and you're gonna need to swap cards.

SONY uses the MicroMV (tape) format on some of it's smaller Handycams but it's a proprietary MPEG format that can't be used as of yet (if ever) on a Mac. Keep in mind also that you will add an extra step, if it is possible to convert in the first place, by having to transfer the video file onto your computer an then convert it to some DV format that iMovie can understand. When you capture video over firewire it's already in the native format for iMovie.

I would be very leery of getting one of these SD camcorders if I was you. The tiny size, albeit nice, is not all that much smaller than some of the tiny MiniDV camcorders available now and the nice thing with tape is that you can keep them for archival purposes , something a flash memory based camcorder sorely lacks, and also tapes can cost as low as $5 each. For a little more that that $1000 SD model I would consider the slightly larger SONY MiniDV. SONY even has a new model (DCR-PC330 MiniDV) that has a 3.3 MegaPixel chips for taking some very good pictures. I was considering one of these jobs to replace my old MiniDV SONY and my 3 MegaPixel still camera.

-Jerry C.

StiZeven · Nov 23, 2003, 08:21 AM

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it! I hear you on the SD issues and even though I have 3 512MB Panasonic (high speed) SD cards, I am sure swapping them would get a bit annoying.

I have to admit, I am a bit confused though!

I thought (and I obviously don't know much about video, yet) that all MiniDV recorded in MPEG format? That's what it says next to each MiniDV camera at Sony's site. Or, is that just an option to record in that format, for optional compressed video, say to email it to a friend? Also, even if iDVD can't import MPEG, can the Mac view it if these MPEG files were simply copied to the Mac?

So, when you record video on a MiniDV (on one of those little tapes), you plug the camera into the PowerBook (via Sony's iLink - FireWire cord) and it's ready to download onto the Mac for iDVD editing? Or do you import it into iMovie, edit it, turn it into a specific file format then import that edited file to iDVD?

So you would recommend a Sony cam for this? I don't mind paying their premium if their image quality is better than the rest. I am looking for rich real colors and sharp outlines (for a small cam) which the Panasonic gets praised for (above).

Basically, I am looking for as little amount of steps as possible! I really want to appreciate the ease of use with the camera, the PowerBook and the editing software (iMovie, iDVD) without having to worry about converting or any lengthy process. Does Apple recommend the camcorders that they have in the accessories section at the Apple Store because they work seamlessly with the Mac?

Also, I have the Canon S400 Digital Elph as my Digital Camera and I could never give that up! It's the best camera I've ever owned and the image quality is insane. So the Camcorder I do get doesn't need to have a great still image feature, but it needs to record video in very high quality.

StiZeven · Nov 23, 2003, 08:24 AM

Hmmm, this one looks tasty...

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...ycamCamcorders

I wonder if this would be compatible as well? I always thought all things Sony were typically proprietary and required the usually conversions and so on?

NYCFarmboy · Nov 23, 2003, 09:16 AM

For a complete listing of digital camcorders that will work on a Mac go here:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/camcorders.html

that is Apple's listing of dv camcorders that will work on a Mac.

Be very careful..I made the mistake of buying a beautiful Panasonic mini DV camera... but when I got it home it would not work on my Mac so I had to take it back! (it came with a USB2 cable so it would not connect to my G4 dual 1.42....who knows..maybe it would have worked with a G5 with USB2?).

scottiB · Nov 23, 2003, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by StiZeven:
Hmmm, this one looks tasty...

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...ycamCamcorders

I wonder if this would be compatible as well? I always thought all things Sony were typically proprietary and required the usually conversions and so on?

This camera won't work with iMovie/iDVD or a Mac. It uses Sony's MicroMV format, and, as Hydra noted, it's a closed format.

If you're partial to Sony, look at the MiniDV line.

-----

I thought... that all MiniDV recorded in MPEG format? That's what it says next to each MiniDV camera at Sony's site. Or, is that just an option to record in that format, for optional compressed video, say to email it to a friend?

Sony uses MPEG-1 to write to its Memory Stick media, ancillary to MiniDV capture.

So, when you record video on a MiniDV (on one of those little tapes), you plug the camera into the PowerBook (via Sony's iLink - FireWire cord) and it's ready to download onto the Mac for iDVD editing? Or do you import it into iMovie, edit it, turn it into a specific file format then import that edited file to iDVD?

The second one you wrote. Once video is captured, the camera is connected to the Mac, where iMovie imports what you want (it need not be all of it). From there, you can slice/dice, add transitions, music, titles, effects, etc. When finished, you can export the movie as a QuickTime file (for web or other purposes), export it back to the camera to create VHS dubs, or export it to iDVD (where you can create menus and author the DVD).

So you would recommend a Sony cam for this? I don't mind paying their premium if their image quality is better than the rest. I am looking for rich real colors and sharp outlines (for a small cam) which the Panasonic gets praised for (above).

For some reason, I prefer Canons. The Elura 50 or Optura 300may fit your requirements.

Check out the reviews at www.dvspot.com.

Good luck!

StiZeven · Nov 23, 2003, 12:34 PM

Wow, thanks for all this info! I checked those two cameras out (I too am a huge fan of Canon cameras) and it looks like neither one are on Apple's official compatibility list

In fact, none of the current Sony MiniDV cams are on that list either! Maybe Apple hasn't updated the list, or we are to assume that a slightly higher model within the same model family will work if its similar model is listed?

What MiniDV cams do all of you use?

dlefebvre · Nov 23, 2003, 01:34 PM

Canon GL-2. It's great, the 3 CCDs make a huge difference compare to 1 CCD cameras, especialy in low light conditions. It's a lot cheaper than the XL-1 and it's basically the same camera (same CCDs, same electronic, same controls). The only difference is that the XL-1 can have different lenses and unless you're willing to spend as much as the camera for a lens it's not worth it. The basic lens that comes with the XL-1 is not that great and also the fact it doesn't have an LCD flap is too bad for a cemera that pricey.

I admit the GL-2 is a little pricey, but it's the best quality/price ratio out there.

scottiB · Nov 23, 2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by StiZeven:
Wow, thanks for all this info! I checked those two cameras out (I too am a huge fan of Canon cameras) and it looks like neither one are on Apple's official compatibility list In fact, none of the current Sony MiniDV cams are on that list either! Maybe Apple hasn't updated the list, or we are to assume that a slightly higher model within the same model family will work if its similar model is listed?

What MiniDV cams do all of you use?

Apple's list has not been updated for some time.

Jeff Keller's review at dvspot.com shows that both Canons work with iMovie just fine.

buddhabelly · Nov 23, 2003, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by StiZeven:
Wow, thanks for all this info! I checked those two cameras out (I too am a huge fan of Canon cameras) and it looks like neither one are on Apple's official compatibility list In fact, none of the current Sony MiniDV cams are on that list either! Maybe Apple hasn't updated the list, or we are to assume that a slightly higher model within the same model family will work if its similar model is listed?

What MiniDV cams do all of you use?

Bullocks to that list. It hasn't been updated. If it records in DV, has a firewire connection, 99.99999999999% of the time it will work.

Hydra · Nov 23, 2003, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by buddhabelly:
Bullocks to that list. It hasn't been updated. If it records in DV, has a firewire connection, 99.99999999999% of the time it will work.

I agree, more often than not a DV firewire camcorder will work. It's the rare case that you find one that will not work. The one caveat is that some cameras may not implement firewire control 100% and you may not have smooth sailing in control of the camera once you have it working.

-Jerry C.

buddhabelly · Nov 23, 2003, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by Hydra:
I agree, more often than not a DV firewire camcorder will work. It's the rare case that you find one that will not work. The one caveat is that some cameras may not implement firewire control 100% and you may not have smooth sailing in control of the camera once you have it working.

-Jerry C.

I'm not sure about other apps, but FCP 4 lets you choose basic Firewire NTSC control over the camera. This covers the most important basics, ie Play, pause, rr, and ff. But yeah most often it'll work.

I've had more problems with broken timecode than with no camera control.

Hydra · Nov 24, 2003, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by buddhabelly:
I'm not sure about other apps, but FCP 4 lets you choose basic Firewire NTSC control over the camera. This covers the most important basics, ie Play, pause, rr, and ff. But yeah most often it'll work.

Correct but I don't know how iMovie (which the original poster is probably going to be using) would deal with a similar situation.

-Jerry C.

tr · Nov 24, 2003, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Hydra:
Correct but I don't know how iMovie (which the original poster is probably going to be using) would deal with a similar situation.

-Jerry C.

in iMovie, you can also control camera functions via the interface, just like buddhabelly described with FCP4

tr