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barang · Feb 12, 2005, 01:17 PM

I'm new to the whole iDVD thing, having just got a Mac with my first Superdrive. I have Toast Titanium as well.

My question is, what is the difference between DVD-R and DVD+R, and any other type of DVD out there. What is compatible with Toast and iDVD and a PM G5 1.6? I need learn more about this.

SVass · Feb 12, 2005, 02:51 PM

If your superdrive is like the one on my powerbook, it will only burn -R media. It MAY be able to read recorded media of both types. Stores sell both kinds so you have to watch what you buy.

barang · Feb 13, 2005, 02:44 PM

I know that my superdrive can read and record DVD+R's and DVD-R's, as I've burned both, but what's the difference between the two? And why won't iDVD allow me to burn DVD+R's when Toast does?

Uncle Skeleton · Feb 13, 2005, 05:13 PM

Apple only supports DVD-R. But Apple doesn't make hardware, they only assemble it, so the particular drive they choose for any specific model of mac might happen to support DVD+R as well (it appears yours is one of them). But Apple does make software, and so their software will not support +R. The difference in the media itself, as I understand it, is that -R will be compatible with a certain selection of players (let's say 90%) and +R will be compatible with a certain other selection of players (let's say 80%). If you or someone you know happens to own one of the set top players that only supports one writable DVD standard and not the other, then you might care which you use. Otherwise, doesn't matter. Although some (probably older) Macs might not support reading +R, but that's a long shot. I think I ran into an HP laptop once that wouldn't mount a video DVD I'd burned with -R from iDVD (for example).

k_munic · Feb 14, 2005, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by barang:
I know that my superdrive can read and record DVD+R's and DVD-R's, as I've burned both, but what's the difference between the two? And why won't iDVD allow me to burn DVD+R's when Toast does?

Hi barang,

there are two consortiums, who invented their own DVD standards, + and - are different ways of writing data on dvd-rs, the raw medias are not compatible, you have to look while byuing them; a few years ago, only "-" medias are used with dvd-standalones (nowadays, you get some dvd standalones, which are able to read both)

"+" was prefered by Microsoft for usage in PCs, as data and of course for writing video-dvds. some years ago, the problem was, these video-dvds could onyl be watched on computers, not on stand-alones (s.a.) some cheaper dvd-standalone-recorders (mostle Philips) use only +media, the better ones (Pioneer) use -.

Apples decided to be as much compatible as possible; you should be able to see your homebrewn dvds also on dvd-stand-alones; so SJ made the wise decision, to choose -dvd as Apple standard.

So Apple software expects -dvds (until now, iLife05 also supports +), the hardware aka superdrive too. BUT Apple supliers used different drives, so sometimes, some older Macs are able to write - and +. To make use of these different files-systems, you need software which ia able to mnake such computations - as Toast.

Finally: as a user, you will not expercience any different (quality, price); -media are ALLWAYS compatible with ANY dvd-standalone.

From my point of view, there's no need for using +dvd�

grovberg · 10:16 AM

Originally posted by k_munic:
Finally: as a user, you will not expercience any different (quality, price); -media are ALLWAYS compatible with ANY dvd-standalone.

From my point of view, there's no need for using +dvd�

This is not actually true. As far as standalone set-top DVD players are concerned, there are definitely players that will not play either +R or -R. I used to own one. And there are definitely players that will play +Rs but not -R. Based on my experience (I work with a large number of random users to create DVDs, so I feel like a get a pretty representative sample) I generally think of it as a Venn diagram where 90% play either, about 4% play only -R, about 4% plays +R and about 2% won't play either. Those numbers are total guesses though and I'm sure there's a slight margin in there for the occasional DVD-RAM deck and such, but it is based on my actual experiences. In general, the newer the deck, the more likely it is to play both so that 90% was around 75% just a year ago.

As everyone has implied but not explicitly stated, technically there really isn't a whole lot of difference between the two. It's all about money. +R represents a group of companies who wanted to own the DVD recordable market and -R represents an similar group. So group A wants you to use only +R discs and therefore doesn't support -R in any drives they make. Same for the reverse. Those not in either group snatch up some market share by supporting both. Of course it doesn't really work very well for either group, and eventually either one bows out or both groups end up supporting each other (i.e. Pioneer is releasing drives that support +R).

Any broad claims that one is better than the other is largely marketing hokum. Suffice to say that with an Apple SuperDrive, you need to use -R because Apple's DVD Drive supplier is in the -R group.

barang · Feb 14, 2005, 01:34 PM

Thanks, this thread has been most helpful.

So it's sorta like what'll probably happen with the Blueray/HDDVD thing?

grovberg · Feb 14, 2005, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by barang:
Thanks, this thread has been most helpful.

So it's sorta like what'll probably happen with the Blueray/HDDVD thing?

It's exactly the same kind of thing. What's really interesting to me is that I think we all assumed that eventually there would be a clear winner to DVD-R vs. DVD+R just as there was in VHS vs. BetaMax. But clearly, both formats have strong enough backing and are coexisting well enough that I don't think that either will be a clear victor.

I wonder if it's just the fact that dual purpose drives can be so easily created or the fact that both groups have such strong backing that won't back down as long as there's money to be made. It will be interesting to see how things shape up indeed.

barang · Feb 14, 2005, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by grovberg:

I wonder if it's just the fact that dual purpose drives can be so easily created or the fact that both groups have such strong backing that won't back down as long as there's money to be made.

That analysis seems right.

BTW, what do you think will happen in Blueray/HDDVD? The same as Beta/VHS?

grovberg · Feb 14, 2005, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by barang:
That analysis seems right.

BTW, what do you think will happen in Blueray/HDDVD? The same as Beta/VHS?

No, I think it's probably going to be the same as -R/+R personally. Time will tell, but Sony (the famous loser in Beta/VHS) is desperate to win and even went as far as to purchase MGM to make sure they don't loose this fight. But HD-DVD is the official ISO standard and therefore has a bit of a head start (though not much) and a lot of backing. I don't think either will definitely win unless one of them comes up with a killer feature (which doesn't look good since both specs are pretty much finalized) or one gets a massive head start (which also seems pretty unlikely) and brings out an affordable deck immediately. Especially since there are already dual (or triple if you count current DVD) format decks already in prototype.

Just my $0.02 anyway.

k_munic · Feb 15, 2005, 02:51 AM

Hi grovberg,

"�90% play either, about 4% play only -R, about 4% plays +R and about 2% won't play either�"

I think, we both argue from our own point of views, I live in Germany, the market for dvd players is exploding, but still vhs is in the shelfs (not as in the UK, where dvd recorders overwhelmed that segment).
And, over here, -dvd is still No.1; playing both standards is a little exotic (funny: the cheaper ones are more compatible), dvd-standalones playing JUST +dvd I've never seen here!�

and, btw: "2% dvd players won't play any dvds"�??? they are broken

? you meant, they won't play the homebrewn ones? that's the same here, some are little divas!!

another btw: you're giving very profund answers!!

grovberg · Feb 15, 2005, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by k_munic:
Hi grovberg,

I think, we both argue from our own point of views, I live in Germany, the market for dvd players is exploding, but still vhs is in the shelfs (not as in the UK, where dvd recorders overwhelmed that segment).
And, over here, -dvd is still No.1; playing both standards is a little exotic (funny: the cheaper ones are more compatible), dvd-standalones playing JUST +dvd I've never seen here!�

Excellent point. Everything I said is definitely from a US point of view. Things usually are very different especially in europe.

There are several brands of settop DVD Recorders that only accept +R discs, even for playback. I'm sure this is a branding decision done on purpose but nonetheless exists. Like I said before though, it's getting pretty rare.