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masmas · May 11, 2005, 07:37 AM

Hey

I found that the drum loops in garage band are absolutely useless when it comes to writing your own song with real instruments. All a want to do is make a normal rock tune with normal drums but there is no such thing in garageband.

So was wondering if anyone knows where i can find propper drum fills, intros and breaks that i can import to garageband. I'm a guitarist and i don't have much experience with writing drum loops.

Thanks's
MasMas

loki74 · May 14, 2005, 08:45 PM

MIDI as about as far from a real sounding thing as you'll ever get. I would stick with GarageBand. If you want real sounding drums, just drag in one of the green presets or loops or whatever theyre called, double click it, and at the bottom you can edit it all you want. The most important thing to making the thing sound real is that you have random velocity. GarageBand lets you do this, MIDI doesnt.

My favorite for drums is FruityLoops, which can actually randomize from a set of different sounds, but its unfortunately not available on Mac. I use that and GuitarRig to record.

If you want some good kits, I like the Scott Rockenfield set (although Queensryche sucks...) or better yet, Drumkit From Hell.

analogika · May 15, 2005, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by loki74

MIDI as about as far from a real sounding thing as you'll ever get. I would stick with GarageBand. If you want real sounding drums, just drag in one of the green presets or loops or whatever theyre called, double click it, and at the bottom you can edit it all you want. The most important thing to making the thing sound real is that you have random velocity. GarageBand lets you do this, MIDI doesnt.

Um...those green presets ARE MIDI.

MIDI is just a standard used for storing and transmitting information ABOUT music, without transporting actual sound - the electronic equivalent of sheet music (which is also why it's so easy to have it display notes on a music staff at the click of a button).

GarageBand just happens to have a better drumkit synthesizer playing from that sheet music than your crappy mobile phone, or the standard QuickTime MIDI synth engine.

masmas · May 15, 2005, 07:39 AM

yeah thats the thing, i got the sounds of the actual drums, just need some pre made patterns (fills, intros, and breaks) in midi format that i can import into garage band. I can't seem to find any of these midi paterns on the web.

loki74 · May 15, 2005, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Um...those green presets ARE MIDI.

ha ha I feel like quite the dumbass now. Oh well. Ive never actually used GB except for once exploring the UI to see some of the stuff it could do.

If I were to record actually I would either get a PC emulator and FruityLoops or I'd program an equivalent...

So like using SoundFonts could actually be considered MIDI? because the music is separate from the sound file...

analogika · May 15, 2005, 04:24 PM

Yep, if you can program something and just switch out the sounds, then it's MIDI (or the application-specific equivalent of MIDI, since the MIDI standard only defines how information is *transmitted between* devices/applications; either way, it's not the sound itself that's recorded, but merely information on how to create it).

masmas · May 16, 2005, 01:20 PM

so anyone know wehre i can mind these midi files?

PacHead · May 16, 2005, 03:46 PM

If you just wanna make a normal rock tune with normal drums and you're not a drummer, then don't waste your time programming midi loops, because it's not going to sound normal, it's going to sound like amateurish crap. Programming real sounding drum patterns takes a bit of skill, and besides the best way to get real drums (without recording a live drummer) is just to use an audio loop of a drum pattern and use that in your song.

If you don't like the audio drum loops that come with garageband, pick up one of the expansion packs or buy a drum sampling cd, and use those loops in garageband, then you won't have to program anything at all.

loki74 · May 16, 2005, 07:18 PM

hrm... I would disagree with PacHead. I think it is very possible to make fairly decent sounding drum loops as a beginner, as long as you have good samples. I mean, you've gotta start somewhere, right? Just pay attention to a couple of things: randomize velocity and make it possible for a real drummer to duplicate what youre doing... like dont make something someone would need 3 arms to play. Also, pay attention to how each of the types of drums (hi hat [open,closed,mid] tom, snare, kick, etc) are used in real songs. Gook luck

PacHead · May 16, 2005, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by loki74

hrm... I would disagree with PacHead. I think it is very possible to make fairly decent sounding drum loops as a beginner, as long as you have good samples. I mean, you've gotta start somewhere, right? Just pay attention to a couple of things: randomize velocity and make it possible for a real drummer to duplicate what youre doing... like dont make something someone would need 3 arms to play. Also, pay attention to how each of the types of drums (hi hat [open,closed,mid] tom, snare, kick, etc) are used in real songs. Gook luck

You are free to disagree of course, but I disagree with a few things you are saying also.

A real drummer does not randomize velocity, each hit they strike is with a certain velocity on purpose. Just taking a bunch of midi notes and randomizing them is not how a real drummer operates. And the same drum sample at a lower velocity is still the exact same drum sample just lower in volume, unless somebody is using a multi-velocity sampled drum library of course. A drum's pitch increases the harder it is struck.

The biggest giveaway would be that the beginner would most likely hard quantize their drum tracks, making them feel static, lifeless, machinelike and boring. But then again, many real drummers on major albums have their real drums quantized later on, so crappy sounding, lifeless drums is the trend nowadays for certain people and bands.

analogika · May 17, 2005, 01:52 PM

Actually, there's a couple of pretty decent basic midi rock drum loops in GarageBand.

Can you not use those as a basis and then edit them slightly to fit your needs (i.e. remove that one annoying crash cymbal or whatever)?

masmas · May 17, 2005, 03:56 PM

yes there are some drum loops its just that there are only about 10 for each drum kit.

I have a Zoom PS-04 recording studio if anyone knows what that is, and it has the perfect preset drum loops as well as u can make ur own and edit the current loops. If anyone's ever used the PS-04 they would know which loops i was talking about and its those im trying to find or similar but as midi files.

I just wanted to try using garage band as it has a much easier UI than the tiny display and also, the zoom box doesn't support midi which is kind of anoying if i want to add additionial instruments.

PacHead · May 17, 2005, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by masmas

yes there are some drum loops its just that there are only about 10 for each drum kit.

I have a Zoom PS-04 recording studio if anyone knows what that is, and it has the perfect preset drum loops as well as u can make ur own and edit the current loops. If anyone's ever used the PS-04 they would know which loops i was talking about and its those im trying to find or similar but as midi files.

I just wanted to try using garage band as it has a much easier UI than the tiny display and also, the zoom box doesn't support midi which is kind of anoying if i want to add additionial instruments.

If the zoom loops are just the kind of loops you're looking for, then why not import/record them into garageband and use them ?

masmas · 05:48 PM

yeah but they are not in midi so i can't just copy and then import i would have to record each one using the line in on my PB. It would reduce quality and take up an enormous amount of time.