[arteewon]

Okay, okay I confess I am a PC head and have been for many years. I just recently got into DV and the PC world does not offer anything substantial at the prosumer level short of paying $40,000 for Avid Xpress or struggling through Premiere.

The new iMac has got me thinking though of making that cross over into the Mac world. I have used FCP before and absolutely love it, Avid better watch itself. Now is the new iMac suitable for DV editing. It has a 60GB HD which is more then enough for making the short films that I do (plus you can always attach a firewire HD if you needed more), the 800mhz G4 chip is an ample piece of hardware considering the 400mhz G4s handle FCP fine, and it burns DVDs which is perfect for geting your projects quickly outputted to a viable media.

What problems do you think I might run into using this "consumer" computer, as they call it, to put together the next independent film masterpiece? So what do you guys say to this PC user turned Mac lover, to new iMac or not to iMac? That is the question.

[ARENA]

You're right, the iMac is an awesome machine for FCP, and it's 800Mhz G4 can handle it great with RT effects and all. Like you said, the Superdrive is great for saving and burning the projects, and the 32MB Nvidia is a good video chip.
The ONLY "problem" you may have with the iMac is it's 15' screen with 'only' 1024 x 768 res. That maybe a bit smaller for the amount of realstate screen used by Final Cut Pro.

But anyway if you're not a pro and would be using FCP for fun, i don't think the screen resolution would be much of a problem.

[arteewon]

Originally posted by ARENA:
<STRONG>You're right, the iMac is an awesome machine for FCP, and it's 800Mhz G4 can handle it great with RT effects and all. Like you said, the Superdrive is great for saving and burning the projects, and the 32MB Nvidia is a good video chip.
The ONLY "problem" you may have with the iMac is it's 15' screen with 'only' 1024 x 768 res. That maybe a bit smaller for the amount of realstate screen used by Final Cut Pro.

But anyway if you're not a pro and would be using FCP for fun, i don't think the screen resolution would be much of a problem.</STRONG>

But then again I dont want to really use it for "fun" so to speak. I am actually making short features with it and the size of the screen doesnt really affect me as long as the number crunching is there. It is a 15 inch viewable, so it isnt too shabby.

[ARENA]

Originally posted by arteewon:
<STRONG>

But then again I dont want to really use it for "fun" so to speak. I am actually making short features with it and the size of the screen doesnt really affect me as long as the number crunching is there. It is a 15 inch viewable, so it isnt too shabby.</STRONG>

Yes that's my point. A 15 inch 1024x768 screen may not be the best for a DV pro who several hours a day working in Final Cut for a living (If that's the case you need a dual 17 or 19 inches monitor setup) but for 'lighter' DV work and non-profitable home use, the iMac screen might be just alright.

[arteewon]

Originally posted by ARENA:
<STRONG>

Yes that's my point. A 15 inch 1024x768 screen may not be the best for a DV pro who several hours a day working in Final Cut for a living (If that's the case you need a dual 17 or 19 inches monitor setup) but for 'lighter' DV work and non-profitable home use, the iMac screen might be just alright.</STRONG>

The only difference I see between the DP800 G4 and the new iMac is of course the extra processor and the ability to have any monitor size of your choice. I'm sure the extra processor helps in doing 'heavy' DV work, but do you really think the G4 800 processor on the new iMac is only suitable for 'light' work? Like I said Im new to Macs and am trying to iron out my pre-conceived notions.

Just by looking at the iMacs tech specs it looks ideal to be an all in one DV computer. I mean Apple touts the TiBook for DV editing and it uses a 400mhz processor!

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: arteewon ]

[godzappa]

I would go with the iMac its a great machine, and I believe supports video mirroring, so if you decide down the road you want a larger monitor you can get a standard large CRT and plug it on into the mac.

I have friends that make shorts (films not clothing) on their powerbooks all the time, now that the iMac is much faster than the Powerbooks and with a larger screen, I think you'd be fine.

[Cipher13]

No machine limited to 1024*768 and a single hard drive is anywhere near ideal. It's got a nice processor. So?

Get a PowerMac.

FireWire drives don't cut it.

[arn]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>No machine limited to 1024*768 and a single hard drive is anywhere near ideal. It's got a nice processor. So?

Get a PowerMac.

FireWire drives don't cut it.</STRONG>

sigh... a 1024*768 and single hard drive could very well be an ideal machine for certain people. Just because you have a PowerMac does not mean everyone else in the world needs to get a PowerMac.

The LCD iMac is a very good machine for casual video editing. People certainly use FCP on their iBooks/TiBooks with the limit of one screen.

and Firewire drives are more than enough for digital video...

arn
dual 800 G4

[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: arn ]

[arteewon]

By the way would I need to get the MATROX RTmac accessory or doesnt the 800 iMac already provide RT effects?

[opallaser]

The new imac is great little machine for DV work. Cipher makes some good points about HD's though. Ideally you would have your apps on one drive and your captured video on another. I would recommend using a 7200rpm drive (for video)although 5400rpm drives will work (im not sure how the RT effects utilitse disk speed as i don't have my copy of FCP3 yet) I believe that the 60gig drive in the hi-end imac is 7200rpm.

You mentioned that you want to install the Rtmac card which of course would be impossible in an imac. The Rtmac card does have the advantage of letting you see your RT effects on an external(TV) monitor and not just previewed on the computer monitor.

I would recommend waiting until you see what updates the powemac line will receive. They may be signifacnt and the low end model with a cinema display and 21inch CRT for bins would be a nice set-up.

[Joost]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by opallaser:
I believe that the 60gig drive in the hi-end imac is 7200rpm.

I was hoping so, too, but it's only 5400rpm

[JoeG4]

Cipher... do you even like quicksilvers? I thought they resembled the cube too much..
Besides you always bash every mac product Steve Jobbs announces, so I assume you just like those ugly G4's with the green power light.

But I could be wrong?

BTW: RTmac card is.. um.. okay, but you really don't need it, and I still don't see the big thing about looking at a funky little TV to see effects!!!

Now that I can get really low prices on all kinds of editing equipment, I think I might jump into this kinda stuff too

[kertong]

Just to chime in about the 1024x768 issue -

Doesn't the new imac support not only video mirroring, but also an "extended desktop" mode, like the titanium powerbook does? If so, you could hook up a nice 19" monitor, do most of your fcp editing there, and use the 15" as a second monitor, perhaps to have fcp3 output the preview to it.

I just want to let you know that I work at a video production studio, and we use a g3 400. That thing absolutely is awesome. Any smart editor will tell you that you cut between nearly every sceen. No rendering. The new iMac however has enough realtime abilities that you will probably never have to render again. The 5400 RPM hard drive, although not a 7200, is completely adequate for dv editing. I wouldn't dare run any kind of analog editing on a hard drive like that.
At our studio we utilize firewire hard drives, 7200 rpm drives, and they have worked flawlessly for over a year.
The screen size may be an issue for some people, but I find that 1024x768 is fine.
Although we all want a cinema display, I was able to edit a few productions without any problems on an ibook 500. You can tweak the UI in FCP to really make the 1024x768 work really well.
You can't beat 1800 for a digital editing system, with a superdrive.
SPVideoKid

[mitchell_pgh]

Apple must watch this forum. I was at the Apple Store last weekend, and guess what they had on the new iMac. FCP3... It worked rather well... I won't know for sure until next week...

[ph@lmi.net]

to answer the question, it's not "ideal," but it will work pretty darn ok.

add a fat, fast firewire drive (oxford/911 mechanism) and you are definitely good to go.

[zigzag]

It's all a matter of degree. The new iMac should be fine for what you want to do, if not as powerful as a dual G4.

A lot of people prefer Firewire because it allows them to move their work around. By all indications, the new generation of 7200 RPM Firewire drives are just fine for DV.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by JoeG4:
<STRONG>Cipher... do you even like quicksilvers? I thought they resembled the cube too much..
Besides you always bash every mac product Steve Jobbs announces, so I assume you just like those ugly G4's with the green power light.

But I could be wrong?

BTW: RTmac card is.. um.. okay, but you really don't need it, and I still don't see the big thing about looking at a funky little TV to see effects!!!

Now that I can get really low prices on all kinds of editing equipment, I think I might jump into this kinda stuff too</STRONG>

No, I don't. I like Sawtooths the most, followed by Mystics.
I don't care what they look like; the point is the V'Ger and QS machines are just... shittier.

The "big deal" is that you can see what your production will look like ON TELEVISION, not on a monitor. Monitors are much better than televisions; resolution, colour, etc. You wanna see if your fancy effects still look good at 320*240...

Remember we're talking the *ideal* machine here... the iMac is merely "I suppose it'll do...".

Heh.

[Hydra]

I don't think the word 'ideal" is the right one for describing the new iMac and FCP. The ideal FCP machine it the biggest baddest Mac that you can get your hands on, especially now that the real-time effects are determined by how much processing power you have on hand. I know people have hacked the scripts to enable more real-time effects but that ultimately will not enable the computer too get more powerful. As far as running FCP on a new iMac (which I think are a fantastic deal with a super drive and all) I think it should be fine. You have to remember that you have about the same power of the top of the line Powermac had only one year ago when the 733 came out. One thing to consider is your hard drive needs and display needs. The iMac is only 1024x768 which isn't ideal but it is usable. As far as HD space the more drives you have the better and if you have to start buying firewire drives you may start to consider a Powermac at that point anyway. FCP is a truly great app and it runs really well on my Dual 800 but I wouldn't even say my dual is ideal for it (whatever is released soon will be . I think the new iMAc would run FCP fine though, heck I know people that used to run it on old G3 iMacs, so if you're an aspiring film maker on a budget it may be an ideal FCP platform.

-Jerry C.

[opallaser]

The "big deal" is that you can see what your production will look like ON TELEVISION, not on a monitor. Monitors are much better than televisions; resolution, colour, etc. You wanna see if your fancy effects still look good at 320*240...

Im not sure what the 320*240 reference is but seeing your effects and titling on a TV/refernce montior rather than the comp monitor is very important. Especially for colour.

Doesn't the new imac support not only video mirroring, but also an "extended desktop" mode

I don't believe so. It's the one feature that IMO would make the iMac great. (ok i think it's great i just really want this feature)

BTW: RTmac card is.. um.. okay, but you really don't need it

Well it gives you analogue in and out and preview on a TV monitor which are two pretty nice features. Obvisouly you can't use this card with an imac.

My ideal FCP system would be : (alot more attractive after a lottery win)

Dual ghz Powermac
1.5gig of Ram
Dual Cinema Displays (using the DrBott adapter and a radeon PCI card with DVI)
Digital Voodoo 10bit uncompressed capture card
Rorke Galaxy Raid Array (450gb at least)
Sony Reference Monitor
FCP 3.0
After Effects 5.5 Production Bundle
Commotion
Maya

The hard drive is immaterial. External firewire drives will be just fine. The real question is whether the iMac can add a second monitor - not just to mirror. I was surprise to learn that somebody is doing pro work on a g3/400 (I may not have that exact). The iMac will be ok...not ideal...but ok, if you can add a second monitor. Unless your FCP work is pretty simple you will want a second monitor for sure. Can the imac work? Yeah, sure. It's got the speed, but the lack of screen real estate will quickly become an issue. People that have not use a dual monitor (or maybe a 22" LCD ) may not realize what they are missing but once you use FCP on a machine with dual monitors or a huge flat screen you realize very quickly what a big impact it has. It's like people on a modem who pooh-pooh a cable modem or other fast access. Useable, yeah. Ideal? far from it. Just one man's opinion.

[kidtexas]

2 cents... (should be able to do this with a DV Cam as well, though depending on the camera, you might be limited to the built in display)... With some of the DV capture units (Sony, Dazzle, etc.), you can plug an external monitor into them and preview your video on TV (while editing). This can be done in both iMovie and FCP. Just mentioning it, cause if you want this ability, for around $250-300, you can have it. It's firewire too, so no need for PCI slots, etc.