[jayshao]

Does anyone know if it would be possible to format video burned to a CDR in such a way that a DVD player would read it just like a DVD? If UFS was used as the filesystem, would it work out of the box? I think that could be a killer app for apple if they could get it working seamlessly, since most people's digital videos aren't necessarily that long, and being able to burn a 5 min clip to a cd and drop it in the mail at the cost of $1 could be a good draw to get the technology out.

[bluehz]

The term being bantered around these days for what you are describing is "miniDVD". Do a search at Google or go to VCDHelp.com and youwill find a lot of info on them. I was mucking about withthis concept last weekend and created such a disk with DVD Studio Pro, saved as disc image, then burned to CDR with Toast. The structure of the disc was perfect. Looked just like a DVD. I popped it into my Apex DVD player and it would not play (the Apex plays DVD/VCD/SVCD/MP3 discs). From the info I gathered there are little to no home DVD players that can play these "miniDVD" formatted disc. It's not that the technology doesn't exist - they just didn't build in the functionality. Supposedly the current crop of DVD players emerging now will have the "miniDVD" capabilities. I removed my internal G4 DVD drive so I was unable to test the "miniDVD" on my computer playback.

[jwardell]

Damn. I was thinking of doing the same thing till I get a DVD burner (this summer?). I haven't tried cuz I have a crappy DVD player (Don't by the new sonys) that won't see CD-R disks.I figured if any can, it's the apex so I'm sorry to see your post.

It should play fine on your computer of course. You can copy the Video_TS directory off your DVD onto your hard drive and open it with DVD player 2.3 and it will work. (HMmm I wonder if this is more energy efficient for longer in-flight movie play time on a PB...argh I need a larger internal drive!)

Guys,

Actually, with the upcoming version of Toast (version 5 Platinum), you'll be able to take any Quicktime movie and convert it to a Video CD. They'll also be including a iMovie plug-in so that you can burn a video CD onto a CDR directly from iMovie. Typically, you can put about 74/80 minutes (on 650MB/700MB CDs respectively) on a single cd. Video CDs are said to offer the same quality as VHS (not great). The actual resolution for VCDs is 352 x 240 pixels (NTSC). For comparison sake, DVD resolution is 720x480.

Video CDs are supposed to be supported by almost ALL dvd players. The only trouble is that not all dvd players supported burned CDRs. Over on http://www.vcdhelper.com/ they recommend the Pioneer DV-333 as being able to support both VCDs AND SVCD (Super Video CDs).

If you're wondering, SVCDs is a format mainly prevalent in Far East. It has a higher quality picture (480x480 vs. 352x240 for VCDs) that almost matches DVD. It also uses mpeg2 compression vs. mpeg1. The catch here is that there really isn't any software yet that supports burning SVCDs on the Mac. In response to a question I posed on Roxio's website, Roxio has said that they are working on the ability to burn SVCDs. I don't know if they plan to include a Quicktime--> mpeg2 encoder. If they don't, you'll have to pick one up somewhere else. Anyway, that's all I know. I hope it helps.
Also, I've heard that the same company that makes the Nero cd burning software for the PC side is coming out with a Mac version soon that'll support burning SVCDs (assuming you have an mpeg2 video stream).

Another note, if you plan on sharing your creations with anyone else, I would recommend that you use the VCD format as the SVCD is supported by VERY few players here in the states. As I said before, VCDs SHOULD play in all recent DVD players assuming they don't have problems with reading CDRs burned with either audio or video.

[clifhirtle]

Originally posted by jayshao:
Does anyone know if it would be possible to format video burned to a CDR in such a way that a DVD player would read it just like a DVD? If UFS was used as the filesystem, would it work out of the box? I think that could be a killer app for apple if they could get it working seamlessly, since most people's digital videos aren't necessarily that long, and being able to burn a 5 min clip to a cd and drop it in the mail at the cost of $1 could be a good draw to get the technology out.

If you don't mind the reduction in picture, i'd definitely throw in another vote for utilizing the VCD format. The fact that Apple has not caught on to the immense potential in the ability to export one's iMovies and burn them onto $.50 CDR/RWs PARTICULARLY CDs that are now capable of being burned in nearly every Mac out there is nothing short of a tragedy. DVD may be of noticeably better quality, but for the average user of iMovie who just wants to create a hard copy of their creations to send Grandma, VCDs are simply awesome.

Fortunately FDFolzano is quite right. Toast Titanium supports the ability to export from iMovie and burn VCDs seamlessly. Using Titanium b6 now you merely select VCD as the format of choice via iMovie and immediately after encoding Titanium opens up with the file already listed. All you need to do is hit "Record." Again, i have absolutely no idea why Apple is not here yet.

Also strictly adhering to the list of DVD player on VCD Helper's website is not entirely necessary. Just burn yourself a trial VCD, swing on by your local electronics store and test it out on your favorite DVD player. I did this at a local Circuit City and ended up blowing away the store salesmen, folks who had never heard or seen of VCD before and were amazed that you could burn a full screen, full motion, full sound movie to a standard CD.

A couple VCD tips:

1) CDRW discs tend to play better in stand-alone DVD players

2) 1X burning is sometimes necessary to create compatible VCDs

3) Many DVD players listed as VCD compatible do not seem to like burned VCDs. Try before you buy.

Hope this helps.

- C

[lucylawless]

Originally posted by jwardell:
Damn. I was thinking of doing the same thing till I get a DVD burner (this summer?). I haven't tried cuz I have a crappy DVD player (Don't by the new sonys) that won't see CD-R disks.

My roommate just got a new sony dvd player, and it cannot read CD-R discs, but it CAN read CD-RW discs, a fact not advertised by sony.

[Cipher13]

Yeah, its up to the individual DVD player.
They could make them to read any type of the discs, but choose not to
Use Toast 5 to burn to CDRW (as Lucy pointed out).

Cipher13

[as2]

There is a plug-in for iMovie that comes with Toast 5 isn't there, that will let you export the file and write as a VCD.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Adam

[jwardell]

> Many DVD players listed as VCD compatible do not seem to like burned VCDs.

"VCD Compatible" has nothing to do with reading CD-Rs. It just means it can read production VCDs (very common in Asia, I even have a few).

More and more DVD players can read CD-R, but major brands such as sony still don't. If you get one of the "cheap" players that are DVD-ROM based (APEX, etc), you'll find it reads all types of media, and possibly MP3 ISO disks.

-Josh, still regretting the purchase of his Sony DVP-C660.

[jac]

Toast 4 Deluxe also burns VCDs, if you can't wait for version 5 to come out. Toast 4 doesn't include an MPEG encoder, though, so you'll need an encoder (Quicktime 5 does it, if I'm not mistaken).
BTW, isn't it strange that Apple is promoting the "Burn!" capacity of their machines, but totally neglecting VCDs? Since basically all the technology already exists in all of their new computers, I think people should be made aware of the fact that there is an alternative to selling their house and buying a 733MHz G4 if you want to make a video disc.
This would be a strong selling point for Apple IMO, and it would be in line with their whole "digital hub" concept.

[osiris]

I use an old copy of Toast 3.5.7 to make VCDs. It took me a while to figure out that most CDRs don't work in stand alone DVD players. However, using CDRW (rewritable) media allows me to use my VCD in almost any DVD player.

I use Premiere to edit and export to DV, then I use Astarte M.pack to make mpeg1's for vcd.
or:
With quicktime pro you can copy and paste raw captured footage and do a "save as" to keep the new edited clip as a reference to the original master. Then you can drag the new edit into your mpeg1 creator and export a VCD file.

Finally, I run Toast, select VCD, and drag all my VCD files into the window and burn to a CDRW.

[Kosmo]

I am using the GM of Toast 5 and have produced some VCD's. But the quality is poor, I'm hoping I'm doing something wrong...

Here what I did. I captured the sitcom "the Job" onto TiVo (pure digital from a digital Cable signal) then copied that onto my Sony TRV-20 Camcorder.
I used iMovie to capture the show from the camcorder then exported to VCD.
Lousy pixelated result....Then I took the iMovie and exported it to a full frame, 29.97 fps no compression, etc. and got a 4GIG QT movie as a result.

then I opened Media Cleaner pro, chose VCD MPEG1 as the setting and after 12 hours got a 220MB VCD file. Burned it again on CD-RW and still the quality sucks...too much pixelation, very blocky...

Any thoughts here, I am excited at the prospect of saving my favorite shows to VCD but so far the results are lousy>

John Manzione
john@manzione.com

[GORDYmac]

Kosmo, every time you transfer your file you will lose quality.

Here what I did. I captured the sitcom "the Job" onto TiVo (pure digital from a digital Cable signal) then copied that onto my Sony TRV-20 Camcorder.

TiVo at it's longest recording time has awful MPEG compression, so make sure you are using the highest setting. From there--if possible--I would record directly to your computer.

I used iMovie to capture the show from the camcorder then exported to VCD. Lousy pixelated result...

Instead of relying on iMovie to work with Toast, I'd open the DV Stream (in the Media folder of your iMovie project) in QuickTime Player, enable "High Quality". Then save the DV stream as a QT movie, allowing dependencies. Then, use this file in Toast. This should yield the highest quality.

Good luck.

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[Mr F]

bluehz has the right answer, forget about VCD

i did one miniDVD, but with old tool like the old astarte suite, that is not available anymore, the difference between him(her) and me is that I don't own a brand new G4, but a B&W G3
my point is and I write it everywhere I can so maybe an apple engineer will see it, is why don't iDVD give the possibility to burn on simple CD-ROM, we could then just do DVD movies as easy as two clics with the quality of a real DVD, only 5-8 minutes, but who cares !!!

it won't play on home DVD player, but it will be playable on most computer based DVD player (I tested it on macos and windows, not on linux)

[Mr F]

bluehz has the right answer, forget about VCD

i did one miniDVD, but with old tool like the old astarte suite, that is not available anymore, the difference between him(her) and me is that I don't own a brand new G4, but a B&W G3
my point is and I write it everywhere I can so maybe an apple engineer will see it, is why don't iDVD give the possibility to burn on simple CD-ROM, we could then just do DVD movies as easy as two clics with the quality of a real DVD, only 5-8 minutes, but who cares !!!

it won't play on home DVD player, but it will be playable on most computer based DVD player (I tested it on macos and windows, not on linux)