[Lebodde]

I am sure this has been discussed ad nauseum but my search did not produce anything so I would very much appreciate any help (or redirection to a previous thread) on this subject.

I have a few analog things (cassette, vinyl records, etc...) that I want to convert to music CD. Should be straight forward, right?

Hardware wise, I have an iMac SE networked to a PowerComputing 604 which has a SCSI CD burner. Because the burner is SCSI I have had to this strictly on the PowerComputing in the following painful way:

- Hook up the audio out of the cassette to the mic input on back of the PPC.
- Use Simple Sound to record 11 minutes at a time (because that's all the room I have open on my internal and I can't direct SS to use the external).
- Copy those 11 minutes to an external.
- Open that file in Final Cut Pro.
- Clean up the intros and outros and cut each song into a separate file so that Toast will number them sequentially.
- Export each file in a format that Toast can see it (AIFF if I remember correctly).
- Burn the CD w/Toast.

Real convoluted, real time and disk space consuming. There just HAS to be a simpler way (without spending tons of money). Help fellow Mac fans ?!?!

Thank you very much for any help.

[jeffrone]

Hey

You pretty much have it down. Sony makes a media converter the Sony DVMC-DA2 that converts anolog to digital, but it uses a firewire interface. FCP works great for what you want but you may want to look at Soundforge or Cubase VST, and Digi Pro Tools if you really want to get your feet wet.

Jeff

[elrond]

lebodde:

You're making it much to hard. Since you have your iMac and PPC networked together, why not just do your recording with the iMac (with it's larger disc you can record an album or more at a time and then burn the files with the PPC box (assuming you mount the iMac disk on your PPC).

Also, you mention that you have Toast. The Toast 5 Platinum software package has included Spin Doctor. Spin Doctor will record your audio off your cassette/LP. It will try to eliminate noise, hiss, static, and it'll automatically split the audio into separate tracks (it looks for the silent passages between songs to do the cuts). This should eliminate most of the steps you have below.

1.) Hook up the audio out of the cassette to the mic input on back of the iMac.
2.) Use Spin Doctor to record your audio (this will do the cleanup and tracksplitting for you)
3.) Burn songs onto CD via toast via the PPC

I hope this helps!

[Lebodde]

Thanks guys!

Elrond, this sounds great! This reason I have not recorded on the iMac and burn on the PPC so far is because 600 megs accross 10T ethernet is a pretty slow proposition. But then again, I suppose that I could do all the work on the iMac, then send the finished Toast file to the PPC overnight and burn the next morning... I only have Toast 3.x so I will have to enquire about upgrades...

[Felix]

How do you handle the weaker LP-audio-signal? Do you use a pre-amplifier between the record player and the computer input or do you increase the level with software?

[Lebodde]

I realize this is probably discussed elsewhere but I thought I'd ask here anyway... If I have to buy Toast 5, it might be smarter to get a USB or Firewire CD burner that comes with Toast5, wouldn't it?

What is the current hot choice as far as getting a new CD burner? If I remember correctly getting a Firewire one is better than usb as far as speed. What would be an affordable suggestion that includes Toast 5?

MacZone has the Que 16x10x40 for $300 but I don't know which version of Toast they include. Is there a better deal?

Thanks a lot

[zigzag]

As I understand it, the drives that come with Toast only come with a limited edition version - everyone seems to think that it's worth it to buy the deluxe Platinum version. Also, it comes with analog sound editing software, although I don't know if it's more effective or easier to use than FCP for that purpose. I would expect that it is.

Yeah, Firewire is definitely preferable to USB for burning. If you don't have the budget for a 16x drive, there are plenty of good ones that run at 12x or 8x. With Toast Platinum, you can burn in the background, so you may not notice the time difference much.

There seem to be plenty of good Firewire drives out there - everyone has a different opinion on them. If you do a search of this forum, there are many, many threads on the topic.

Sounds like you'd still have to burn from an external drive in order to burn more than 11 minutes at a time. I don't know if a Firewire burner can burn from an external drive or not - hopefully someone else can answer this question. You may want to install a bigger hard drive in your iMac.

[ddiokno]

Hi Lebodde,
Check out Toast 5 Titanium, I believe it will do exactly what you want to do (convert analog to CD), it even comes with a cable to plug into your mac (the PowerComputing). I believe it comes with a program called CD Spin Doctor.
Anyway, check it out, and let us know how it goes!
best of luck,
dave

[ddiokno]

There are some strange things happening here....
When I posted my above post, the only thing in this thread was the original post? I guess I was in the Twiligh Zone
dave

[Euphrates]

I got the que! fire 16x10x40x about a month ago and it came with a full version of toast 4.1.2 , ah well. You might have to wait for a new drive comes out for it to include a new version of toast. I think that they have packaged most of the current drives already. Once a new case/speed comes out, I'm sure they will include 5.0 if the drive is expensive enough (i.e. they wouldn't include it on a $200 drive).

[booboo]

Originally posted by Felix:
<STRONG>How do you handle the weaker LP-audio-signal? Do you use a pre-amplifier between the record player and the computer input or do you increase the level with software?</STRONG>

On the assumption that you're looking for an acceptable solution, rather than audiophile solution, here's what to do.

The output from a (magnetic) cartridge is not only very low level, but also in need of (RIAA) equalisation. You should use the tape outputs (those that feed a tape machine) on your amplifier to connect to your Mac's line input. These should be approximately the right (line) level.

I'ver even stooped to using my cassette machine's headphone out on occasion and, whilst not technically the best way of doing it, the results are acceptable, plus you get level control via the headphone level control (assuming your cassette machine has one...)

Peak LE (www.bias.com) I think gives you a couple of weeks evaluation period, and is a decent 2 track (stereo) editing/recording package, but maybe recording directly into Toast is the best low-hassle solution, but I'd definitely recommend going easy with the de-hissing/equalisation options.

[booboo]

Originally posted by Lebodde:
<STRONG>Thanks guys!

Elrond, this sounds great! This reason I have not recorded on the iMac and burn on the PPC so far is because 600 megs accross 10T ethernet is a pretty slow proposition. ...</STRONG>

Consider a 100BaseT card for your PPC - surely less than $20...

[zigzag]

Originally posted by Felix:
<STRONG>How do you handle the weaker LP-audio-signal? Do you use a pre-amplifier between the record player and the computer input or do you increase the level with software?</STRONG>

Yes, use a pre-amp. You can buy a phono pre-amp for $25 from Radio Shack or similar electronics supplier. This would be far easier and better-sounding than trying to fix the sound with software.

[Believe it or not, there are audiophile phono pre-amps that cost thousands of dollars, but for this purpose I would go with the cheapest one you can find]

Alternatively, hook your phonograph up to a receiver or integrated amplifier that already has a built-in phono pre-amp, then hook the receiver/amp up to the Mac via the "tape out" connections.

[Lebodde]

Wow! What excellent feedback!

Thank you zigzag, ddiokno, Euphrates, booboo, and all!

I will try and get a copy of Toast 5 asap. I could not find upgrade info on it, btw... (I have v4.1 right now) only the full purchase for $89.

As far as audio level, right now I am converting from a Sony minidisc so I am going out of the headphones port. (I don't have a way of getting the digital signal out of the minidisc unfortunately)

[GreenMnM]

Originally posted by Lebodde:
<STRONG>I will try and get a copy of Toast 5 asap. I could not find upgrade info on it, btw... (I have v4.1 right now) only the full purchase for $89.
</STRONG>

You can only get an upgrade directy from Roxio. It is $59 plus tax and shipping. You may not even be able to get it online, I had to call.

-Doug

[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: GreenMnM ]

[Lebodde]

When you think about all that is involved in making a CD version of analog music, you wonder if it is not quite a bit easier and faster to get an audio CD writer... (one that hooks up directly into the stereo)...

Besides not being able to use for the usual computer CD burning, are there any disadvantages to going that route? Anyone using this method instead?

Thanks for any feedback.

[booboo]

Originally posted by Lebodde:
<STRONG>When you think about all that is involved in making a CD version of analog music, you wonder if it is not quite a bit easier and faster to get an audio CD writer... (one that hooks up directly into the stereo)...

Besides not being able to use for the usual computer CD burning, are there any disadvantages to going that route? Anyone using this method instead?

Thanks for any feedback.</STRONG>

Well in some ways it might be easier. Beware though, some of the domestic CD recorders won't write to cheapo standard data CD-R's, requiring (once significantly, now I'm not sure how much) more expensive 'music' CD-R's.

The pro stand-alone CD Writers that will write to standard data CD's were again considerably more expensive. I'm not sure if this situation remains, I'm only offering this information as a caveat so you don't buy something that disappoints.

But for me the main reason to go the computer route is for the opportunity to clean up (eq and de-click) some of my irreplaceable LP's and cassettes - but then I do have a quality soundcard (Korg 1212) and I do also quite enjoy the process...

[zigzag]

I just read a review of a new Harmon-Kardon audio CD-burner that seems to be able to do just about everything a Mac/CD-R can do - store MP3's, record from analog or CD, even burn one tune at a time. Of course, it can't burn data, and you can't procees/edit the sound like you can with a Mac. Also, with a Mac you can drag/drop and let the burner work in the background, whereas with the audio burner, you sorta have to attend to the machine, unless you're just copying entire CDs.

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: zigzag ]

[Lebodde]

I just found out that there is a free version of Protools 5.1

Would this be a good way to digitize and clean up analog audio? Would it be better/not as good as CD Spin Doctor?

Is anyone out there using it?

Thanks

[booboo]

Originally posted by Lebodde:
<STRONG>I just found out that there is a free version of Protools 5.1

Would this be a good way to digitize and clean up analog audio? Would it be better/not as good as CD Spin Doctor?

Thanks</STRONG>

ProTools is really a high end multi-track recording, editing and mastering package. It is possible to clean up audio recordings (with the help of plug-ins) but I think ProTools 5.1 FREE serves better as an introduction to Pro digital audio multi-track recording on the Mac, rather than anything else.

In other words the basic package doesn't offer any advantages for your particular task, but nevertheless it might capture your imagination, and at its current price it's got to be worth checking out.

What you really want IMHO is to get the cleanest signal you can to your Mac, with no eq at this stage apart from maybe a little high freq. boost if the source really needs it.

Record this signal into your Mac. If you're using the Mac's analogue inputs - which are of decent quality - there won't be any difference between the recording quality of any software.

I'd recommend you steer clrear of de-clickers and (particularly) de-essers. They seem to get results technically, but what you end up with often contains side-effects of this processing that are far less musical and more disturbing that the problem they set out to solve.

However, this is just my perspective, and others will disagree.