I'm in the market to buy a DV camcorder and digital camera for the family. I could use some recommendations on what to buy, as well as, some tips for when buying these products.

And please, no budget busters.

Ideally, no more than $1200 for both. And they must be able to connect to my Firewire PowerBook.

Which do you recommend?

tnx

I recently bought a JVC GV...80u from cameraworld.com. It was half price, around $800. You should be able to find a DV camcorder that will take still pics, too, for 1200 or less. Research it at cameraworld, circuitcity, cnet, etc. I like the JVC I bought; dv editing is a whole new thing for me, in addition to the photo work I do.

Personally, I'd go with 2 separate cameras. Yes, you have to deal with 2 pieces of equipment, but I've found that combo cameras tend to skimp on one or both features.

As far as DV camcorders go, I really like the Sony and Canon cameras. In the $1200 range, I'd go with either the Canon ZR10 or the Canon Elura2 or, for a little bit more, the Sony DCR-PC5. All 3 are very nice cameras that offer good image quality and are compact in size. The Elura2 and PC5 also support still image captures, but the quality of those images leave a lot to be desired. I'd recommend shopping around online for prices and going to electronics stores to actually try out the cameras.

For digital still cameras, Canon and Nikon are my favorites. Both have a range of cameras at different prices, and the image quality on all of their cameras are some of the best around. While I can recommend a couple of cameras, the best thing for you to do is actually try out a few at your local electronics stores. That way, you can find a camera that looks right, feels right, and costs right for you.

FYI, I have the Sony DCR-PC100 camcorder and Canon S100 Digital Elph camera. I have been extremely happy with both cameras. Excellent image quality, easy to use, both connect to my Powerbook with ease, and both are really small (nice to fit everything in one bag).

Danny

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Danny Ngan
Animator & 3D Artist
http://www.dannyngan.com

Originally posted by dannyn:
Personally, I'd go with 2 separate cameras. Yes, you have to deal with 2 pieces of equipment, but I've found that combo cameras tend to skimp on one or both features.

Danny, was dead on in his observations. DV camcorders that provide still image options are considerably weaker in their still image taking than consumer level digital cameras.

I also agree that Cannon and Sony make the best DV camcorders, I have the TRV320 *which takes still images* but that feature is hardly worth mentioning. I bought the Olympus 360L and it works fine for my needs, but the Camcorder truly rocks when using it with Imovie2, FCP, Premiere who which ever program you decide on.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

I have the Canon Elura2 for DV and the Canon Powershot 100S Digital Elph for stills and I couldn't be happier. However, combined these would cost you at least $1200+500=$1700. I think your next best choice for DV would be a Canon ZR-10, which runs around $800. You could then stretch the budget a bit and get the Digital Elph for $500 for a total of about $1300. I think it would definitely be worth the extra $ - you'll be happy for a long time with both products. If you can't swing that, there are plenty of other good digital still cameras out there for $400.

The nice thing about the Elph is that it literally fits in a shirt or pants pocket, so you can and will carry it everywhere. Rather than get third-rate stills from a DV, you'll be able to get first-rate stills from the Elph without carrying a lot of extra weight or bulk.

I'm a big admirer of Sony but after lengthy comparisons I preferred the Canon products. But you can't really go wrong with the Sonys either - it's largely a matter of personal preference.

Search the web (try mysimon.com) for prices and you might find them cheaper. I would stick with large established retailers like PCMall and Outpost and avoid places like Abe's that advertise the lowest prices but often don't have the units in stock. Those places are mostly hustlers operating on 42nd St. in Manhattan and will tell you anything to make a sale. One place told me they had the Elura in stock, then after I gave them my credit card no. they told me it wouldn't actually ship for another 3 weeks. PCMall's website tells you exactly how many units are in stock.

I disagree to some extent on the not using the DV camera for stills. IMO it depends on where you are looking to use it and what the stills are for.

I have a Sony PC100 which takes 1152x834 stills to the memory stick. Whilst these are not as good a resolution as good digital cameras they are good enough for snaps. The real let down for using it as a digital camera is it's ability in poor light conditions. Unless you are using it in good bright light forget it. For these circumstances a digital camera is needed.

One thing to look at for the digital camera is the type of media it uses and how easy it is to transfer the pictures to the computer. The cameras generally come with the minimum media size they can get away with so you should look at factoring in the cost of additional media and what ever device you need to transfer the images to the Mac (unless the camera has a USB port and the necessary software to drive it).

On the camcorder, go to a store and try it hooked up to a bigscreen TV.
We were looking at a Sony TRV11 with a pixel count of 680,000.
The next model up TRV-20 is 1,070,000 pixels.
BUT- Usable pixels is 340,000 for the 11and
690,000 for the 20. (dug out of the manual).
The 11 would be fine on a smaller screen but need the 20 on a large screen. Your eyes will be the judge.

If at all possible try before you buy. Take whatever you read and hear with a grain of salt.

Have an Elura (the original, pre MC 2 model). Love it. Only drawback is I edit some pretty large video files and have an external firewire Maxtor hard drive to hold my footage. My iMac DV SE (only) holds 30GB. Found out the hard way that Sony DV cameras will download directly to the external HD where Canons have to go to the iMac HD first and then have those files copied to the external HD. I found that out from experience and by then reading the fine print on Apple's iMovie sight. Wish the guy at Samy's Camera would have pointed that out. On the bright side, I can do deskwork and mow the lawn while my files are copying!

I am focusing on looking for a camcorder. If you plan on using imovies2 the apple website doesn't recommend jvc. Proug (excuse spelling)wrote a wonderful book on imovies2 that goes over equipment. I am leaning toward the cannon zr-10 (offer stills) which you can get mail order for the low $600 with tripod. The panasonic 100 is going for under $600 and I have seen a $100 rebate on top of that.

For DV cameras see:
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum9/HTML/000692.html
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum9/HTML/000567.html

For a digital still camera: Canon S-20 (3 megapixels)--small, USB, and can use an <A HREF="http://www.steves-digicams.com/microdrive.html" TARGET=_blank>IBM Micro
Drive</A>. To get the best results, I always shoot at the highest resolution which really eats space. A 340 MB MicroDrive can hold about 800 highest res. pix.

That might sound ridiculous, but I've found by using a digital cam for the past year that it allows a different mindset: I can shoot indiscriminatley--not worrying about "wasting film"--just shoot and shoot and shoot some more (as my hard drive full of pet pix can attest). It's really liberating.

IBM also sells a travel kit that comes with a PCMCIA adapter, allowing fast transfers to your HD (340 MB via USB could get a little long.).

Factor into you budget: extra batteries (preferably long life) and buy your DV tapes from Costco/Sam's Club--4 for $25--much cheaper than Best Buy, etc.

Oh, and DV clips eat HD space like nothing else (roughly 1GB=5 minutes).

Hey all -

As with NeoMac, I am looking into purchasing a digital camcorder and wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with the Sony TRV320 or 520. It's received excellent reviews about its picture quality, though has also been denounced for its use of digital 8 recording compared to the more-expensive miniDV. This camera is down in price to about $650, so it looks like a pretty good buy (special emphasis here on the word "looks"!).

Any comments or suggestions about this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Anyone have experience with the Cannon ZR 20, ZR25MC, or ZR30MC?

I'm in the process of buying a digital camcorder. I've decided on DV format and don't want to spend more than $800. I'm not too interested in stills because I plan on buying a digital camera as well.

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-Toyin
Dual 500mhz G4 768MB Ram. ATI Radeon.
OS 9.1 and OS X pb.
&
PPC 6500/225. SonnetG3 300Mhz/512K 128MB RAM. Voodoo3 2000PCI
OS 8.6

ToyinFayemi.com

Toyin

just outside of your budget but bearing consideration is the canon elura2 (the non-media card version - you're right about the stills, they dont come close to printable considering most megapixel still cam quality) i just picked one up by searching pricegrabber.com

the lowest price as of yesterday was $834 + $24s/h

i too thought about the zr series but after reading reviews and actually holding it in my hand (and pocket!) i chose the elura2

Thanks Antonio. After actually taking a look at all of them, I'm going to get the Canon Elura 2 or the Canon Oputra pi (so much for my budget )

i still get a kick as to how small and powerful the elura2 is. the negative comments about it's low light capabilities i think were overblown - i've been using it for indoor family shots under normal house lighting and i don't see any difference from my shots with the sony trv11 when i had it. the pi is suppose to be excellent for low light shooting, something like 1 lux

what i can't figure out is what seems like a countdown in the camera screen once i hit record (10 seconds). if anyone has any idea, please let me know

just to share my buying experience. i used pricegrabber to find the best price but then phoned the company to make sure they had it in stock and could get it to me asap (i was leaving town on a trip and wanted the camera with me). they had it and the price was what was advertised, but then they started trying to sell me the accessories - not in a pushy or nasty way, but i had to say no repeatedly and explain really how i could get better deals at b+h. anyway, just as a caution, practice the word "no" prior to placing your ad (apparently some of these internet companies will call you to confirm your order, or at least that's what my salesperson told me when i asked him if it was faster for me to just place my order online or let him take the order - i imagine you will get those accessories suggestions as well during the "confirmation" call). to be honest, it wasn't an ordeal considering i got an excellent price and i knew a little something about the market value of the accessories they were selling.

anyway, best of luck with your new camera - i now need a bigger hard drive from all the imovies i'm working on! the future is in accessories!

Toyin,

The extra $$ are worth it. I purchased a ZR-10, and while I do love it, I wish I would've paid more and chose an Optura Pi or Elura 2: optical stabilization's where it's at, IMHO (though I did, spend the money saved on external FW drives).

Have fun.... .

Originally posted by NeoMac:
...And they must be able to connect to my Firewire PowerBook.

I would agree with the folks recommending separate cameras for video & still. I am also partial to the Sonny cameras (DV & Digital8). Most also include analog input so you can import archival VHS stuff into iMovie or FCPro.

I would also get a PC card adapter for your camera. These are a slick & FAST (way faster than USB) way to get your images from the camera to your PowerBook.

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I'm cookoo for Cocoa Apps!

Thanks for the responses. I bought the Canon Optura Pi for $899 (found it through CNET). After reading a number of reviews I decided on this over the Elura 2, mostly because of the size. Believe it or not I think the Elura 2 is too small for me (I'd lose it or drop it ). Also the Optura has optical stabilization (making the 525lines of resolution more attainable) and better low light capabilities.

Personally I think the lower ZR series would have served me well now, but I have a feeling I'm going to want to do more than home movies in the future.

Thanks again, and when I have the camera in hand I'll let you know what I think.

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-Toyin

ToyinFayemi.com

Originally posted by sailor41:

(dug out of the manual).
The 11 would be fine on a smaller screen but need the 20 on a large screen. Your eyes will be the judge.

If at all possible try before you buy. Take whatever you read and hear with a grain of salt.

--Often we overlook simple advice like yours; thanks for these bits of wisdom ie "read the manual / try before you buy" . . . great thoughts.

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'Simplify. Simplify.' --Thoreau

[Wardy]

Originally posted by antonio
:
<STRONG>what i can't figure out is what seems like a countdown in the camera screen once i hit record (10 seconds). if anyone has any idea, please let me know</STRONG>

Antonio

You may well have figured it out by now but the 10 second counter is a guide to stop you taking too short clips or zooming too quickly etc.

They suggest 10 seconds is the minimum time to record a clip and also the longest time to look at something boring, eg, a cat.

[XPBlows]

go to www.dv.com and check the forums there for more advice if you'd like.
I have a number of canon ZR 10 25 30 that I mount in race cars at events. I also have one of the little digital elfs.... One of the ZR's and that is about $1200.

regards...