[stevlevin]

What is the best way to convert analog video to digital format and then work with it and store it? Here are my choices, as far as I can tell:

- Buy a converter (Sony, Hollywood Dazzle, Formac) for about $300-$400 which converts analog to DV and back. Probably the best quality solution.

- Buy a digital camcorder with analog line in/out. Costs a bit more, but you get a real camcorder in the deal! (But I already have a Hi8 Sony camcorder that I am happy with -- seems redundant -- how much better can mini-DV be?) Iwould never do this unless I want the conversion function.

- Use my old, out-of-date Performa 6400/200 with Avid Cinema ports and software to convert analog to "digital" (but not DV?), then transfer the files to my iMac for editing with iMovie. But will this conversion be as high quality as translating to DV? Or is digital, digital, regardless of Avid antiquity?

All advice welcome! Please email response to me -- thanks!
Steve
steve@leadingchange.net

Go for a DV camcorder is my tip. Quality is noticably better, plus editing is a lot easier.

[Cipher13]

No matter how you get analog video to digital, it'll look crap.

Get a digicam and do all future recording to Digital 8 or MiniDV (my recommendation)... as for the old stuff? Record from the VHS to the MiniDV then to the system. The quality won't rock, but it'll work.

Digicams rock.

[stevlevin]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>No matter how you get analog video to digital, it'll look crap.
Record from the VHS to the MiniDV then to the system. The quality won't rock, but it'll work.
</STRONG>

Do you mean I should actually make a digital recording on DV tape, then transfer it to the system? That would take a long time. How about just using the camcorder as a pass-through to get it directly onto the system, then editing it there? Will that work?

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by stevlevin:
<STRONG>

Do you mean I should actually make a digital recording on DV tape, then transfer it to the system? That would take a long time. How about just using the camcorder as a pass-through to get it directly onto the system, then editing it there? Will that work?</STRONG>

That might work...

You'd have to have the camera in VTR mode, with the data from the VHS playing through the camera - then have the camera plugged into the system, recording everything that played through the camera...

It's sorta iffy, but it could work...

[kidtexas]

I was in the same situation. I have a Sony Hi8 camera, which is of good quality - I think they have similar resolution (400 lines) to DV (500), so the quality is about the same. However, DV is much easier to edit on, especially on the mac. I picked up a Sony DMC-2 for less than 300, you could probably find one for around 250.

Don't buy used unless you get a really good price, cause they dropped the retail price on them to around 300, and everybody who is selling used probably got theirs when the price was around 400, so they are selling used for like 325 (last time i checked). Make sure you get the DMC-2, because it features a LANC port which will allow you to sync your camera to the DV-bridge to the computer, so you will be able to control the camera from the computer (assuming your Sony has a LANC port, which it should).

If you are thinking of getting a new camera, go for it, cause you can always convert with that. If you like your camera, I would say get the Sony unit. It seems silly to use a $600+ camera as a converter, and the DV-bridge is useful as an audio input as well. Its also nice for editing, cause if you hook your TV up to the outputs on the bridge and switch it to Firewire in, you can use your TV as an output monitor. Nice to preview your edits on something other than the computer monitor. (in order to do this, I think you need to "video play through to camera" in iMovie. There is a similar option in final cut pro).

All in all, I am really glad I got this unit instead of a new camera. As stated before, Hi8 is actually pretty high quality video - if you like your camera and don't want to shell out a whole bunch of money, the converter is quite useful.

Using your old computer is not bad, but be forewarned that you might not be able to capture at full speed or resolution with it. I don't know your setup, but the nice thing about the DV converter or the camera is that they automatically encode the video with a DV codec. This means good quality at good resolution with 30 fps. If you old computer doesn't have an appropriate harddrive, etc, it could drop frames or be unable to capture at full resolution.

One downside to not having the DV camera - when you are all done with your video, you are going to have to dump down to analog. Not that big of a deal, but if you ever want to touch up the end product, you have to reconvert, etc. losing quality along the way. Solutions to this: get a DVD burner , if the videos are short, segment them and archive them on CD, or borrow someone's DV camera and archive them on DV tape.

[stevlevin]

Originally posted by kidtexas:
<STRONG>I was in the same situation. I have a Sony Hi8 camera, which is of good quality - I think they have similar resolution (400 lines) to DV (500), so the quality is about the same. However, DV is much easier to edit on, especially on the mac. I picked up a Sony DMC-2 for less than 300, you could probably find one for around 250.</STRONG>

This is a great post, thank you for all the wonderful information. I am surprised that you say that Hi8 is close to mini-DV. I heard that Digital 8 is close, but I wonder what the real specs are for analog Hi8 vs. mini-DV. Do you know, kidtexas? Does anybody else know?

[kidtexas]

Yeah, Hi8 is 400 lines of resolution (horizontal), DV is 500, I believe Digital8 is also 500. This is all compared to VHS which is around 250, if I am not mistaken. There is a difference between Hi8 and DV, but not huge. You would notice, but you also might notice the extra $400 dollars out of your pocket if you got a DV camera I would probably stay away from Digital8 for no other reason than its not the standard like DV is. Sure it plays old 8 and Hi8 tapes, but who wants to be stuck with a camera that plays 3 outdated formats?

Another hidden cost to consider - DV tapes are expensive! But, so are Hi8...

Hi-8 is not a great choice. Check out this link.

If you have a lot of old analogue stuff then a analogue to DV converter will work. The quality will not be as good as DV, but will be acceptable.

Alternatively there are some capture cards that will allow you to bring in s-vhs. I think the rtmac card has this feature. It will also allow you to do realtime effects within Final Cut Pro.

More info here.

[stevlevin]

Okay, so Hi8 is acceptable though not as good as DV. Let's look at it another way:

Given that I will be using an iMac 600 with iMovie...

Will a reasonably-priced DV camera give me all the functionality that I need to easily transfer, edit, etc. my 8mm and Hi8 tapes (using analog input/output ports and my Hi8mm Sony camcorder) on the iMac, compared to one of the converters?

In other words: What functionality does a converter have that a new DV camcorder doesn't? And what are the key features on a DV camcorder to look for in order to ensure good functionality for editing from a 8mm camcorder camcorder?

Example: I like Hollywood Dazzle's and Sony's converters ability to control the 8mm camera from the computer using Lanc. Would I lose this?

[scottiB]

Sony digital camcorders (digi8 and miniDV) allow "on-the-fly" analog to digital pass through, I believe (check the specs to be sure).

Canon camcorders don't allow this. For example, with my Canon ZR-10 (miniDV), I would need to record the analog to miniDV, then use that with iMovie: a two-step process.

I guess the question you need to ask is "Are you ready to go completely digital?" IMHO, making a clean break to digital is the way to go. I've seen the difference comparing my father's Hi-8 to my DV at family gatherings, and the clarity is really noticeable.

A quick Sherlock search and I've found Canon ZR-20 prices for less than $500 US. I paid over $800 for my ZR-10 16 months ago. I'm not pushing for Canon; perhaps a Sony Digi8 would fit your needs.

Plus, what's cool is that you'll have two video cameras that can be used with iMovie (one after converting it to digital). My girlfriend and I each take a camera to an event (or whatever) and we can edit together the footage.

Another opinion.

[ 10-22-2001: Message edited by: scottiB ]

[mortis999]

Here are some Hi8 samples. They were captured from a BT848 and edited with Media Cleaner.
http://24.14.70.201/Vacation/

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>No matter how you get analog video to digital, it'll look crap.

Get a digicam and do all future recording to Digital 8 or MiniDV (my recommendation)... as for the old stuff? Record from the VHS to the MiniDV then to the system. The quality won't rock, but it'll work.

Digicams rock.</STRONG>

[kidtexas]

As stated before, if you are willing to spend the cash, get a new DV cam. There are ones out there that let you convert on the fly as mentioned above. You won't be able to control your old Hi8 camera through the DV one (99% sure on this), but you won't need to; you'll have a new camera that your computer can control, and once you convert your video to DV, you will probably never use the old one again.

Yes, no body is arguing that Hi8 is better than DV. It is pretty good though. And since most people dump the final down to VHS so they can share it, it is a moot point. VHS is poorer than Hi8 and DV. If you are happy with the quality of Hi8 and don't want to get a second camera, then don't.

I wouldn't get a Digital8 camera, just because it looks like DV has won out in the digital format war for now. Not saying that Digi8 won't be around for awhile, but it might not be. And if you have an old camera, you can always play your tapes through that -&gt; new camera -&gt; mac, so what is the big deal that Digi8 plays old 8 and Hi8 tapes?

The biggest consideration - do you want to spend around $600 for a camera that will let you convert your video to DV on the fly, or would a $250 unit do the job and stick with the old camera. Personally, I got the $250 unit, because I don't have $600 to buy a camera. And if I was going to buy a camera, I'd probably be much happier with the $1000 model. So I will wait for awhile until the old camera is dead. Cause right now it is more than usable.

[scottiB]

kidtexas brought up a good point about VHS. I hadn't thought of that. Usually everything I do goes to QuickTime.

[kidtexas]

Just think it through. Think how much money you want to spend, and what format you are dumping down to. If you go to quicktime at anything below ??? X 400 resolution, you are not only well below DV's resolution, but passing below Hi8. I'm sure there are some complex theories as to why you would still be better off with DV in this case, but the simple fact of the matter is that you are going to be losing more quality.

If you plan on going to DVD, and you got the cash, get the DV camera.

Ultimately, I really think it comes down to how much you have to spend on this upgrade, and how much you could use a new camera.