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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Classic Macs and Mac OS > Avoid 9.1 Like the Plague

Avoid 9.1 Like the Plague
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Jan 11, 2001, 02:08 AM
 
After countless hours waiting and clicking and waiting and clicking i finally got all 15 pieces to the Mac OS 9.1 upgrade and installed...

...my machine is now completely unbootable off of the primary drive - machine boots into Open Firmware and generates error when attempting to boot out of OF. This is off of a standard 9.0.4 drive and on a typical run-of-the-mill iMac.

This should *not* have caused issues.

Do yourself a favor - save the frustration and avoid Mac OS 9.1 like the plague as (apparently) serious problems can result from its installation.

I'm getting *really* tired of $hitty Apple 1.0 releases...

Speed
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 02:19 AM
 
What are the specs of your machine?
Per Square Mile | A blog about density
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 02:28 AM
 
What machine are you using? I installed 9.1 on an AGP G4 and it rocks.

     
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Jan 11, 2001, 02:55 AM
 
I have also not had any problems with OS9.1 on my B&W G3. It seems really good so far.

Also, what do you mean by 1.0 releases. OS 9.1 is by no means a 1.0 release.
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 03:00 AM
 
I installed it at home this morning after spending 20 Minutes per part between last night and this morning to download it.

That's a total of 5 hrs just FYI

With the exception of two issues relating to my retail ATI Rage card and the DiskWarrior DiskShield extension, I haven't had any problems.

I've also upped three systems at work to 9.1 also no problems.

Must be your Mac

Mike

     
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Jan 11, 2001, 03:08 AM
 
You must have some other issues going on. Can you start up with extensions off? I had a bad problem with my son's iMac, but after I figured out that specific extensions were at fault, it's been a dream. I also installed it on my Wallstreet PB, and had no problem at all because it didn't have the problem extensions installed. I haven't done my G4 yet because that's where I have my OS X partition, but since I really don't use classic all that often on OS X, I might just install it tomorrow, being careful to disable the problem extensions, which the G 4 also has installed. My G3 B&W at work will have to wait until next week.

By the way, I downloaded all 15 files in something like 10 minutes at work. Oh the wonders of a T1 line

[This message has been edited by yoyo52 (edited 01-11-2001).]
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Jan 11, 2001, 03:43 AM
 
Boot from CD. Rebless your System Folder. Run Disk First Aid over your drive.
I'll try and find the open firmware boot command (try the obvious things first though )

Cipher13
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 04:49 AM
 
I'm having the same problem. Luckily I didn't spend as much time on the download but I too get dropped into OF at boot. I can boot normally by holding down the motherboard reset button, pulling the power for 15 sec. then plugging it back in and booting with the shift key down till i get the happy mac. I've played with my extentsions and hardware and it looks like it's a bug in the latest version of the MacOS ROM file. I doubt we'll see a patch for this inside a week but I'm hoping to eat these words.

My specs:
G4 450 DP
192 mb RAM
Stock everything else
MacOS 9.1 (ugh)
All other current Apple software (OpenGL 1.2.1 r0x)
George
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Jan 11, 2001, 04:56 AM
 
SpeedRacer, what comp you got?
A DP as well??

Cipher13
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 06:19 AM
 
I got my hands on 9.1 yesterday, and it works perfectly. My Pismo didn't like it at first, welcomed me with a smile and then a blank black screen. After zapping the PRAM everything worked smoothly.

Big thanks to Cipher13 for the installation instructions for International systems!

All my existing software (including 3rd party extensions) work. I haven't noticed any gain in speed, or statibility. Mac OS 9.0.4 was rock solid, and 9.1 is, too.

Heimir.

     
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Jan 11, 2001, 06:58 AM
 
Is it just me or did Mac OS 9.1 remove the old Notepad application from the Apple Menu? I did a search using Sherlock and it returned the new Notepad Java Archive results. What the?!!?

I don't want to have to run Java just to run Notepad!
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 09:18 AM
 
Works perfectly fine. I have gradually added back 3rd party stuff, avoided MOM 2001, and it rocks - I also have disk cache set as high as it will go. And have put it on my emergency zip and external drive - that's how much I trust it already.

When in doubt, reformat and do clean installs - they went over this with a fine toothcomb. There may be lots of 3rd party software and hardware issues - that wouldn't surpise me totally. That's normal. Like 3rd party drivers.

As usual make a couple backups. But this time I didn't refomat and doesn't seem necessary (I did that a couple weeks ago in preparation though).

Sorry to see that only NOW is the 70MB update on Akami servers. Duh, that was poor planning. Or that my CD is gonna be out of date come monday (CarbonLib 1.2 etc - AND 9.1 update downgrades it to 1.1.1 so had to reinstall again - doesn't ask even).

Gregory
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 09:18 AM
 
i've got to add my two pence here...

i've just installed 9.1 on intl english on a g4 450 agp machine. installed perfectly first time, finder performance does seem noticeably 'snappier' - especially swithching between apps. we'll wait and see about stability issues.

i'm looking forward to getting 9.1 on my home mac (dp450); the stability on that has been pants so far - generally when connected to the web via the onboard modem. crashing like senna.

so - 9.1 worked fine for me - sorry to hear about any other people's problems tho'...

chrisford
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 09:50 AM
 
No probelms here, Actually reformatted and did a clean install of 9.0.4 and then Updated to 9.1 no probelms yet but did notice that 9.1 does not update a few things, like the DVD player still stays at 2.2 and the version on 9.1 is 2.3 also noticed that IE 4.5 showed up on my system WTF? Other than that I have not seen any other abnomailities in 9.1. Stability is good and speed is good. in the meantime patiently waiting for OS X.
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Jan 11, 2001, 09:56 AM
 
Okay apparently the Bad-MacOS 9.1Cloud is hanging over my computer alone... great.

The machine is a Rev. A/D iMac mutation w/V2 Gamewizard card installed. I has a 20GB HD split into 2 partitions - one previously running 9.0.4 perfectly, the other running X Beta.

The issue is *not* a third party extension problem as i disabled all of those beforehand.

It is *not* a Disk First Aid issue either - as i have run that multiple times beforehand and afterwards.

And it is *not* an unblessed System Folder issue either - as this was the first thing i checked after booting up from the standard OS 9 CD.

Other things:

After the first failure i did a clean install of 9.0 and tried updating to 9.1 again - exact same issue: computer boots into Open Firmware immediately - no extensions, no happy Mac, nothing except the OF grey screen.

Initiating the OF boot command (mac-boot) generates and "Error 300" or something. Initiating it again = same result.

I have not tried booting with Shift b/c i have not even gotten as far as passing the system startup check.

Reseting the PRAM has no effect.

Has *anyone* had this same issue or am i the only one with the 9.1 Black Cloud overhead?

Speed
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 10:05 AM
 
have you updated your iMac's firmare?
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Jan 11, 2001, 10:13 AM
 
Originally posted by typoon:
have you updated your iMac's firmare?
The only FW update listed in Apple's Software Updates site for the original iMacs is iMac Firmware update v1.2 which (unless it has not been updated for a while) requires OS 8.1, 8.5, or 8.6.

And when i ran 8.6 back in the day i definitely would have updated it's firmware. So unless the OF update updates only the HD (which has since been replaced) the OF should be up to date.

I'll check on this 2nite.

Speed
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 10:41 AM
 
apple say this on the download page:
'Mac OS 9.1 and Mac OS X Public Beta - Important: The Mac OS X Public Beta and Mac OS 9.1 are not compatible. If you install Mac OS 9.1, the Classic environment in the Mac OS X Public Beta will no longer function'.
I imagine you've seen it already and I haven't read all of this thread, but I wondered if it's related to your issue? I realise you've got your os's on different partitions but maybe there's a connection? good luck anyway.
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 10:47 AM
 
Okay i found this *exact* issue listed by several other people on Apple's Discussion Boards.

The issue appears to definitely be effecting Rev. A iMacs, but it is not isolated to this iMacs as users running Dual Processor G4s are reporting similar problems.

Registered login on the boards prevents me from posting an exact URL, but check the section of the Apple Discussion Boards below for more info.

This problem is *very* real.

Apple Discussion Boards &gt; Mac OS &gt; Mac OS 9.1 Discussions &gt; Serious Startup Error in 9.1!!

Speed
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 11:03 AM
 
Ok, I have a G4DP 500. I just installed the 9.1 update last night.

The problem: Whenever I copy anything to anywhere, an mp3 to a DVD RAM disc or a file to a networked drive the computer locks up completely.

Go figure? Am reinstalling 9.1 now. Hope that solves the problem.

Everything else works fine. Any suggestions email me please.
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 11:09 AM
 
i had the same problem on my imac, i have a 60gig drive, and i honestly believe that there is some stupid limitation on where the system folder 'needs' to be on the drive, i would guess the first 8 gigs of the drive
but anyways i fixed it, you need to run tech tool and optomize the disk, that way the system folder is in the first portion of your disk again
hopefully that works...it did for me, it was funny cause i could boot into osx but i couldnt boot into 9.1
dont lose hope
it has nothing to do with extensions or anything
w3rd..
surrey represent
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 11:44 AM
 
All these threads about OS9.1 problems are scarring me. I think I'll wait for 9.1x just to be safe!
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Yonkers can have better TV reception.
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 12:15 PM
 
Installed the 9.1 update over 9.0.4 on my work G4/400 AGP, 256m RAM, DVD-RAM & internal Zip 100. No problems so far, although the DVD-RAM is still too slow to be useful..

For a system update, *ALWAYS* install with extensions disabled, and I'd add that you zap the PRAM a few times after the install has finished.

Control Strip prefs still get corrupted way too quickly-- the CS just disappears and the control panel then indicates it's been set to 'Hide.' The new Window menu should have a hotkey for cycling through windows, a la IE 5-- otherwise it's pretty worthless...

And if anyone wants to b!tch about bad system updates, let's talk about System 7.5 through 7.5.5.

-p
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 12:21 PM
 
My Pismo's been freezing like System 7 since I updated to 9.1... i.e. random, complete lock ups. I'll be typing in Explorer and it will just freeze for no reason. I'll leave my PowerBook alone for 10 minutes, return, and it will have hung.

I'm not the only one with this... lots of Pismo owners at Macworld have been complaining about it.

As soon as I return home 9.0.4 goes back on...
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 12:31 PM
 
I agree. Avoid 9.1 like the Plague. It has really given my G4 400 a series of problems. It has moved files and displayed false error messages. You would think that Apple would test their software before they ship it.
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 12:38 PM
 
works fine. haven't noticed any speed changes. doesn't crash but neither did 9.0.4.

I left my computer on all night this morning I went to check out the new system disk control panel (cool!) and that it. Then half an hour after I last touched the computer it beeps at me an tells me the finder quit and I should restart my computer. now usually when I get "the finder quit" error the finder clearly reloads itself refreshing the desktop. That didn't happen this time.

OSX PB / 9.1 (classic broken)
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Jan 11, 2001, 12:40 PM
 
So far many of the problems in 9.1 I have found there is nothing a good utilites progrma like Techtool Pro 3 or Norton seem to fix it. I've been running 9.1 since I obtained by other means and have not encountered any problems . when Apple released it in SF I downloaded the update and did a clean install. After dong the Clean install I ran my utilites program and it fixed some stuff. 9.1 seems to be running fine on my Pismo but I have found a little flakyness on my G4/450 when booting up. It starts up with a Big Smilely Mac and then a Gray screen the after it say welcome to Mac OS 9.1 it switches back to it's normal screen resolution. Other than that the machine has not encountered any other Flakiness. Other than noticeing some of the things that it didn't update and the Internet Explorer incident where IE 4.5 showed up on my G4 after the update i have not encountered any problems
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Jan 11, 2001, 01:08 PM
 
I have now installed OS 9.1 on 15 machines, from old beige PPC boxes to new DPG4s. I hit a few problems on the first couple, but now have none. First I run a disk utility (I prefer NDD, use what you have) then boot off the OS 9 CD as recommended in the readme and install the update to the HD. Reboot to check for problems, and if neccessary run a defrag. Some extension conflicts, but updating to current revisions fixed them, except for the two who use M$ Office - manager won't work but everything else does (so far).
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 01:16 PM
 
Originally posted by smic:
i had the same problem on my imac, i have a 60gig drive, and i honestly believe that there is some stupid limitation on where the system folder 'needs' to be on the drive, i would guess the first 8 gigs of the drive... it was funny cause i could boot into osx but i couldnt boot into 9.1
Thanks for the tip... could this "first 8GB" limit be the underlying reason behind the fact that X and 9.1 are incompatible? ie: Mac OS X has to be installed on the first partition and 9.1 demands the first 8GB?

Very, very interesting.

Outside of this, the consensus seems to be that 9.1 works fine on stock Macs... but all these "success stories" are not addressing the very real issues plaguing those of us with older and/or upgraded machinery. Particularly those of us who took every possible precaution before installing.

Speed

[This message has been edited by SpeedRacer (edited 01-11-2001).]
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 01:28 PM
 
well, like the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" my imac with 9.0.4 is working great, thank god i wasnt able to update to 9.1. when all the bugs are out, (say in about a year??) MAYBE i'll update. i've read all the reports about the bugs and about 9.1 being faster, but maybe someone in here could tell me, what exactly will 9.1 do for someone like me that does not use the computer for work , and it is just primarily for internet and enjoyment? i will say one thing about updates however, i know that this imac came with OS9 when i bought it and it was always freezing and so forth, and OS9.0.4 made it faster and stable as a rock

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Jan 11, 2001, 02:44 PM
 
Any other models having problems with the 8Gb problem? I've got a 7500 with a G3/250 brain and a 30Gb drive on an ATA/66 PCI card. Had a non-working Linux install on the orig. drive (1 Gb) and reformatted it, installed 9, and upgraded to 9.1. Seems to be fine, but I'd like it to be on the (much faster) 30Gb drive. 7500s are obviously not new world ROM, so I don't know if I'm gonna hose it up. The first 8Gb got used up LOOOOOOOOOOOONG ago, and I don't have a Norton-type drive utility. If I don't find some confirmation, at least I'll be able to post the results afterwords. I'd prefer to NOT rebuild my system from scratch though. It would take entirely too many hours on Hotline... ;-)
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 03:08 PM
 
Oi, Speedracer!! The exact same thing happened to me when I UPDATED OS 8.5 to 8.6. Even had Apple techs puzzled. For some reason, updating the system components (instead of a clean install) puts some of the resources in strange areas of the hard drive. Running Speed Disk is the answer (TT Pro 2 didn't work for me). Puts everything in the right place and you'll see the smiling Mac again.

Rock

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Jan 11, 2001, 07:11 PM
 
Gino*,

To answer your question Mac OS 9.1 moves your Note Pad from wherever you had it and moves it to Apple Extras, one of the many things that has been moved in prep for OS X.

Apple Extras is now in Applications BTW. Hope that helps you out.

As for others with stability problems, after removing the Microsoft Office Manager (MOM) for Office 2001 my 500mhz DP G4 is working like a dream. No crashes, no freezes, no problems, nada.


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Jan 11, 2001, 08:16 PM
 
hey --helen--@excite.com,

file copy problems on a dual G4? sounds like my life before the CPU plugin update [2.7], [which fried my ppp connections but let me copy files].

i'm using 2.8 from the ASIP for 9.0.4 update [grabbed via tomeviewer]. i can copy at will.

9.1 includes the same crapulent 2.6 version that shipped on the 500MP, even though the update was written in november.
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 08:35 PM
 
What is with IE?
I'm not installing something that puts IE on my comp.
Apple knows that many Mac users hate MS, why would they make it auto intall?
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Jan 11, 2001, 09:28 PM
 
I tried tuesday to D/L 9.1 and was getting 36kbps xfer rate. Took forever to get #14,15. Trying again. I thought somebody said they found it as a single file, all I can find is the segmented version. Server is better now, have one stream at 320kbps and one at 240kbps. Hope it works OK on my OC'd DP500
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 09:50 PM
 
My machine (G4 Dual 450) also boots into Open Firmware and generates error. I've noticed that when this happens I have no keyboard or mouse control. If I shut down and wait a couple of minutes it then boots normally. If I try to do a restart I end up in the Open Firmware.
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 10:58 PM
 
I was stupid enough to install 9.1 on my Lombard. The damn piece of junk now completely locks up the Lombard when I quit many apps and forces a reboot. It's damn annoying to have to restart three or four times a day when I used to restart less than once a week.

Lucky I have a complete copy of my old system folder.
     
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Jan 11, 2001, 11:51 PM
 
Originally posted by ginoledesma:
Is it just me or did Mac OS 9.1 remove the old Notepad application from the Apple Menu? I did a search using Sherlock and it returned the new Notepad Java Archive results. What the?!!?

I don't want to have to run Java just to run Notepad!
Yes, it was removed from the Apple Menu on my box too,,, but its in the Applications (Mac OS 9) folder&gt;&gt;Apple Extras folder.
     
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Jan 12, 2001, 01:01 AM
 
Got 9.1 installed on a backup partition and it is running fine.

BIG thanks to ph@lmi for the info about the CPU updater. So I did a comparison of extensions, 9.0.4 to 9.1 and pulled over the three extensions from, hmm CPU Plugins 2.6. Anyway, current or not, it's working smooth. A little slower than 9.0.4 on this Mac. I ran Norton 5.0.2 System Info and it came out a tiny bit slower all around than 9.0.4.
CPU 9.0.4: 1492 CPU 9.1: 1483
FPU 9.0.4: 1416 FPU 9.1: 1407
Video 9.0.4: 865 Video 9.1: 834
Disk 9.0.4: 2015 Disk 9.1: 1991

Gonna re-start and go back to 9.0.4 for now, but 9.1 looks OK.

OK, it bugged me when I saw CPU 2.6, so I re-ran the updater and re-ran System Info and 9.1 w/ CPU 2.7, got exactly the same as 9.0.4 for CPU and FPU.

Nothing negative, so far, is positive.

[This message has been edited by zac4mac (edited 01-12-2001).]
     
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Jan 12, 2001, 01:49 AM
 
Just installed OS 9.1 updater today, on my Pismo, over 9.0.4, smooth as silk. It's been running like a champ. I can say I feel for all of those that are having problems, it's a pain in the @ss when stuff doesn't work right.
     
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Jan 12, 2001, 02:24 AM
 
Whats the problem with these guys?
always in a rush to get the early jump on new apps and features and then whining becuase they either did not install per instructions or oblivious to the inevitability of extension conflicts.
I downloaded 9.1 on my iBook while watching JAZZ on PBS, using one finger. my trackpad and not even paying attention, Each segment took 5 minutes over iDSL(160kb), installe dwith )OS9.0.4 All extesnions set and away I went.
Was easy except for the lengthy download

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Jan 12, 2001, 03:10 AM
 
I am having the same problem (booting into Open Firmware) I have a PowerMac G4 Dual 450 with an extra 128 mb of ram. And I followed ALL the instructions to intall it...even booting from my PowerMac CD and installing when booted from there. Yet I still have the problem...there's gotta be something wrong with the BootROM file....what irks me is Apple hasn't said anythign abou it at all (I've posted a couple of times on the Apple Support page...nobody from Apple has replied), obviously there is a problem in the OS, they could at least recognize. I'd call apple tech support, but it costs freakin $50...I don't think so! I'm really getting frustrated...this is the first time I've been this frustrated with Apple, and I very much don't like it!
     
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Jan 12, 2001, 03:18 AM
 
OK, clearly you have to do a clean install. And deactivating third-party extensions is also a good idea.

But what about the extensions manager. Does it matter is I have deactivated any standard OS 9.0.4 extensions (like openGL) with the extensions manager? Let's say Apple upgraded those with 9.1. Would the updater find the deactivated extensions and upgrade them? If it does, would it leave them deactivated?

Just wondering.

scl
     
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Jan 12, 2001, 03:59 AM
 
Just found a solution to my Open Firmware problem and it works for me.

Found at MacFixIt
http://www.macfixit.com/ultimate/For...ML/006071.html
     
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Jan 12, 2001, 04:34 AM
 
It seems that I mistyped my search. I searched for Notepad instead of Note Pad. Interestingly though, it seems that I can run Notepad.jar on non-Mac OS computers. I tried running it via MRJ's JBindery and Apple MRJ App Builder but both don't seem to work.
     
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Location: Wauwatosa, WI.
Status: Offline
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Jan 12, 2001, 06:24 AM
 
Okay ideas?

The machine is a G4 500 MP, 448 MB RAM, VM is on, 2 X 20GB Maxtor drives, DVD-RAM drive, the Rage Pro card that came with the machine and an old IMS Twin Turbo card driving a second monitor and there's an Apple OEM SCSI card installed, (the Adaptec 2930 that Apple uses.)

The machine has several USB devices attached,: the keyboard on one USB port, with an IntelliMouse Explorer attached and a Lexmark M410 printer, Kritter Camera, Artec scanner, Microtech card reader and MacAlly iShock attached to a Belkin hub on the other.

There's a Zip 250 drive and a Philips OMNIwriter CD-RW on the SCSI card. The only thing attached to the FireWire ports is a Sony DCR-TRV 820 camcorder.

Ethernet is connected to a LinkSys EtherFast 4 port router, which is connected to a Toshiba PCX1100 cable modem.

OS 9.1 WAS installed on both drives (after booting from the machine's original OS CD.)

When I boot from the SECOND drive, which I installed, the machine boots and runs fine. When 9.1 was installed on the factory original drive (still the master position) the machine hangs as soon as that drive appears on the desktop.

The first drive, the one that hangs, is the normal boot drive and loads a much larger set of extensions and control panels.

Could any of these be a problem:

Moon Menu, Conflict Catcher, Microsoft Office Manager (Office 2001), Palm Desktop (2.6.1) or SETI (3.0.3)? (Those appear between the clock and the Finder on the menu bar.)

If not? Anyone having a problem with 9.1 and FontReserve (2.5.2)? TechTool Pro (3.0.2) or Norton SystemWorks? (Those all launch during the boot for me.)

Otherwise, I am back to 9.0.4 (back-up, back-up, back-up) and running just fine?

TIA. (And sorry about the windy post.)

[This message has been edited by roleary (edited 01-12-2001).]

[This message has been edited by roleary (edited 01-12-2001).]
     
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Aiken, SC, USA
Status: Offline
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Jan 12, 2001, 05:54 PM
 
I installed the 9.1 update with no probs on my iMac DV SE 500mhz. I am sure you read the Read Me attached with the update, but you needed to boot up from CD before installing. This may be the cause of some issues some are having.

With 9.1 my system is much snappier and seems more stable. The only issue that I have found so far is that Sherlock 2 doesn't work through IE 5. The Sherlock icon in the toolbar says that "Sherlock may not be properly installed", but it works perfectly through the Finder. Anyone have any ideas what the problem may be? Any help is appreciated.
     
spi
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jan 2001
Status: Offline
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Jan 12, 2001, 06:45 PM
 
I have had no problems with 9.1 on my 350mhz G4. I have 9.1 on the second hard drive on my computer.

Multiple Users is a lot more stable in 9.1

I haven't had one crash yet with 9.1 :-)

steve
     
paxan
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Jan 13, 2001, 07:30 AM
 
Hi, just to say I installed OS9.1 over 9.04
on a PM 7500/ G3 400 scanner (umax) printer (epson) 2 monitors
didnt pay much atention while doing this and without putting all extensions off, didnt read the "read me"
Well , it works great , no problem found yet(day3) feels a little faster and stable no forced restarts yet ) i've scanned, used netscape,photoshop,itunes,......
so, go for it and thanx APPLE
     
 
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