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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Classic Macs and Mac OS > It's NOT a Mac issue

It's NOT a Mac issue
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Jan 15, 2002, 09:28 AM
 
I realize dialup problems aren't in vogue right now, but I need some help dealing with a troublesome ISP.
The Problem:
After my modem dials, I establish a solid connection according to Remote Access. But then am unable to connect with any mail server, web site or ftp directory. Disconnecting and reconnecting will usually solve the problem, but many times it takes two to three attempts.

Tech support says it's a Mac issue, but I'm not convinced. Any words of wisdom here?

The Setup:
  • 9600 with Sonnet 400 G3 card.
    OS 9.04
    U.S. Robotics 56K external Modem

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Jan 15, 2002, 09:58 AM
 
ensure that you have the right server addresses entered in the TCP/IP control panel.

if that doesn't work, give it a good hard smack.

-r.
     
Mac-Guy  (op)
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Jan 15, 2002, 10:45 AM
 
Originally posted by rjenkinson:
<STRONG>ensure that you have the right server addresses entered in the TCP/IP control panel.

if that doesn't work, give it a good hard smack.

-r.</STRONG>
I've checked that. I've tried it with name server addresses in and out. My ISP suggests putting nothing in the name server address box. Hmmm...
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Jan 15, 2002, 10:46 AM
 
This would seem to be a DNS problem. Do you have the IP addresses of your primary and secondary DNS servers entered into the TCP/IP control panel, or are your DNS servers assigned through DHCP?


&gt;Tech support says it's a Mac issue

Who is your ISP? They sound like Windows oriented ass-clowns.


Agent69
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Jan 15, 2002, 10:48 AM
 
Originally posted by Mac-Guy:
<STRONG>

I've checked that. I've tried it with name server addresses in and out. My ISP suggests putting nothing in the name server address box. Hmmm...</STRONG>
That could work. DHCP has the ability to tell your computer what DNS servers to use, which allows for the ISP to set their DHCP servers where ever they want. My cable modem does this.


Agent69
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Jan 15, 2002, 11:18 AM
 
Remember, this is a dialup connection. DHCP is only used for servers connected to your computer via Ethernet. That is, if you are connected to an Internet SErvice provider and/or you are on a network.
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Jan 15, 2002, 11:31 AM
 
Originally posted by Agent69:
<STRONG>

&gt;Tech support says it's a Mac issue

Who is your ISP? They sound like Windows oriented ass-clowns.


Agent69 </STRONG>
Probably are.

When an ISP employee tries to hand me the "it's a Mac problem" B.S., I tend to question his/her general competence.
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." (Kierkegaard)
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Jan 15, 2002, 12:47 PM
 
Originally posted by Jansar:
<STRONG>Remember, this is a dialup connection. DHCP is only used for servers connected to your computer via Ethernet.</STRONG>
I think that you are wrong on this. For example, DHCP is what gives people an IP address when they dial up. I've also had a dial up provider that used DHCP for everything.

DHCP works via TCP/IP. I don't DHCP cares what media (ethernet or dial-up) TCP/IP is using.


Agent69
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Mac-Guy  (op)
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Jan 15, 2002, 03:28 PM
 
How can I set up a dial-up DHCP connection? If I choose PPP and DHCP in the TCP/IP control panel, I have to include a "DHCP Client ID." This number isn't static, is it? I thought it was dynamically assigned; different with each connection.

And true, Agent69, the ISP tech support folks are "Windows-oriented," but aren't they all?
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Jan 15, 2002, 03:43 PM
 
Originally posted by Mac-Guy:
<STRONG>If I choose PPP and DHCP in the TCP/IP control panel, I have to include a "DHCP Client ID." This number isn't static, is it? I thought it was dynamically assigned; different with each connection.
</STRONG>
"DHCP Client ID" is an optional TCP/IP control panel parameter. It should normally be left blank (and wasn't even available in earlier versions of the control panel). It is provided for compatibility with certain devices, such as certain cable modems, which may require it. I think it's purpose is to uniquely identify you, the DHCP client, to the DHCP server. Has nothing to do with the dynamically assigned number the server assigns you for network access. It's used, as far as i can tell, to ensure you pay the cable company for additional computers which want to share the cable modem connection. Of course this can be defeated by a router, but that's another matter (and clearly has nothing to do with your problem).

On another note: Why are you still using 9.0.4? You should consider upgrading to 9.1. Probably not your problem here, but many bug fixes and better Finder.

BTW: Universal translator matrix: 'Tech support says "it's a Mac issue"' really means "Tech support hasn't a clue."

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Rainy Day ]
     
Mac-Guy  (op)
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Jan 15, 2002, 03:48 PM
 
Originally posted by Rainy Day:
<STRONG>

"DHCP Client ID" is an optional TCP/IP control panel parameter. It may usually be left blank. It is provided for compatibility with certain devices, such as certain cable modems, which may require it.

On another note: Why are you still using 9.0.4? You should consider upgrading to 9.1. Probably not your problem here, but many bug fixes and better Finder.

BTW: Universal translator matrix: 'Tech support says "it's a Mac issue"' really means "Tech support hasn't a clue."</STRONG>
I'll try setting up via DHCP tonight and report back my findings.

I'm using 9.04 because of a problem I can't find a solution to. You can see my post on that here: OS 9.1 Finder Glitch

And you're right on about what Tech support really means when they say it's a Mac issue. But you know what they say about trying to fight a battle of wits with an unarmed man...




[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Mac-Guy ]
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Jan 15, 2002, 03:49 PM
 
When you connect but can't go anywhere, are you assigned an IP address? Have you verified the IP addresses of the DNS servers?

You can test to see if it is just DNS by trying to bring up a webpage by IP address only. For example, try:
http://140.183.123.168/

This should take you to MacNN. Or you can try Google:
http://216.239.35.101/


Agent69
-oscar edit: Changed macnn's ip address to the correct one.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: oscar ]
Agent69
     
Mac-Guy  (op)
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Jan 15, 2002, 04:35 PM
 
Originally posted by Agent69:
<STRONG>When you connect but can't go anywhere, are you assigned an IP address? Have you verified the IP addresses of the DNS servers?

You can test to see if it is just DNS by trying to bring up a webpage by IP address only. For example, try:
http://140.183.123.168/

This should take you to MacNN. Or you can try Google:
http://216.239.35.101/


Agent69
-oscar edit: Changed macnn's ip address to the correct one.

No--but I do get an assigned address number. I'll try accessing via IP address alone next time it happens. Thanks.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: oscar ]</STRONG>
[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Mac-Guy ]
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Jan 15, 2002, 04:42 PM
 
Mac-Guy, if you want, you can email me at jsflowers@earthlink.net


Agent69
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Jan 15, 2002, 04:54 PM
 
Okay, I'm home now and I just tested this with Earthlink.

I opened the TCP/IP control panel and set it to:

Connect Via: PPP
Configure: Using PPP Server

I have left everyleft else blank.

Next I closed TCP/IP, saving the configuration. I then entered my Earthlink Username, Password, and Telephone number into the Remote Access control panel. I exited out, saving the configuration.

I then launched the Remote Access Status application, located in the Apple menu. I hit connect and once connected, at 46667kps, I was able to go to several different websites in Internet Explorer.

So, try PPP/PPP Server with no DNS server addresses in the "Name Server Addr:" box. Please let me know how it goes, or email me.


Agent69
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Mac-Guy  (op)
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Jan 16, 2002, 09:47 AM
 
REPORTING BACK:

I tried setting up TCP/IP to use PPP/DHCP, but this didn't solve the problem. I think it's something I'm going to have to live with. It's not unbearable, just a nuisance to have to disconnect and redial once in a while.

I still think it's my ISP's problem.

Bottom line: It's definitely NOT a Mac issue.

Thanks all.
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Jan 20, 2002, 09:54 AM
 
Originally posted by Agent69:
<STRONG>

I think that you are wrong on this. For example, DHCP is what gives people an IP address when they dial up. I've also had a dial up provider that used DHCP for everything.

DHCP works via TCP/IP. I don't DHCP cares what media (ethernet or dial-up) TCP/IP is using.


Agent69 </STRONG>

FWIW, DHCP has nothing to do with the address assigned to a particular client when using any type of PPP (Dialup, PPPOE, PPPOA). DHCP is indeed a "LAN" type address assignment commonly used for Ethernet, Token Ring, etc. It so happens that all cable modem connections and many older DSL connections use DHCP. [Edit: because they mimic LAN technologies].

PPP connections are inherently multi-protocol, and can carry not only TCP/IP but Appletalk, Novell, etc. if needed. In the 'real world', our Internet PPP connections carry only one protocol, which is IPCP, the PPP version of TCP/IP. IPCP has built in address negotiation for the client IP address, subnet mask, DNS addresses, and some other random data.

Summary: DHCP = LAN, IPCP = PPP

On topic: If it works the second time it should work the first time.

Clayton

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: cwagar ]
     
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Jan 23, 2002, 12:41 AM
 
I think that I must admit error in this.

Since in my case I could dial up with no DNS servers listed in the TCP/IP control panel but still have access to DNS resolving, I figured that DHCP was working in there. Obviously, the PPP connection utility is getting this info but it isn't using DHCP to get it.

I stand corrected.
Agent69
     
   
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