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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Classic Macs and Mac OS > "Finder Unexpectedly Quits"

"Finder Unexpectedly Quits"
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
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Feb 16, 2000, 08:28 AM
 
This alert occurs constantly on startup with my G3/300 (OS 9). The Finder seems not actually to have quit...things go on as usual, though I do get freezes occasionally for no observable reason. This has been going on for months, and I've done everything I can think of...clean installs, trashing Finder Prefs, ASLM prefs, etc., increasing the Finder's heap share, cutting my extensions down to the absolute minimum. This happens only with OS 9. I sometimes run OS 8.6 with the same set of extensions, and the quit never takes place. Thus it seems OS 9-specific. I'd appreciate any advice anyone may have to offer.
     
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Feb 16, 2000, 11:58 AM
 
Just installed OS9, same deal.
     
Linda
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Feb 16, 2000, 01:05 PM
 
You guys don't mention any third-party extensions you might have loading. It sounds like a conflict of some sort.

Can you test for conflicts with Conflict Catcher? (There's a fully-functional demo on their website.)

I had this annoying problem when I had Kaleidoscope running on my Mac. When I disabled it, it went away. (Conflict Catcher narrowed this down for me.)

peace,
Linda
     
Adeltoro
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Feb 16, 2000, 01:09 PM
 
I had the same problem on an updated 8500. It would get worse when I would insert a CD into the CD-Rom drive.

After re-installing MacOS9 a number of times the only solution I found was to perform a clean install into a different drive and use that as my start up.
     
PSM
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Feb 16, 2000, 01:10 PM
 
Are you using Multiple Users. I would get finder quit occasionaly when I use Multiple Users but none now that I have it disabled. No Finder quits on my G3, 7600, or iMac 333 all runing OS 9.

-PSM
     
Tony Trewinnard
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Feb 16, 2000, 01:23 PM
 
I have had the same problem on my G3/333 Powerbook - the finder quits before loading the items in the Startup items folder, but the system stays active, then crashes soon after, usually when accessing Remote Transport. I have tracked my problem to the Global Village PC card and Global Fax extensions, which if removed also remove the problem. Are you running Global Fax by any chance?

     
GrayG
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Feb 16, 2000, 02:17 PM
 
We've been having problems with the Finder during shutdown on our G3/233 running OS 9. The shutdown sequence starts, but then everything either freezes up or we get an error message about the Finder quitting. It's still doing it after 3 clean installs, major extension weeding, and 1 hard drive reformatting. Can't seem to locate the culprit, but I haven't tried disabling the Global Village stuff.

Aaarghh!!


Gray G
     
u367
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Feb 16, 2000, 04:27 PM
 
Hey Guys, I have the answer for you!!! Same thing happened to me. The culpret seems to be the contextual menu extension. If you disable this extension the finder quitting will go away. It is probably in conflict with something else but since I dont use the contextual menu that much I wont miss it personally.
Chad
     
PierreX
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Feb 16, 2000, 04:51 PM
 
This is for Gary G. Are any of you using a ZIP drive with your iMacs. If so you must have a zip drive in the drive when the computer shuts down. Otherwise the Zip 100 USB driver will not allow the machine to shut down properly.

Pierre
     
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Feb 16, 2000, 04:56 PM
 
The finder on my g3 450 quits when I try to use the contextual menu's in the finder with applications and some documents. It seems rather odd.

------------------
Jonathan Haddad
     
atlauren
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Feb 16, 2000, 05:13 PM
 
I have this problem too; I've been suspecting the Kensington mouse driver.

-Andrew
     
meursault
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Feb 16, 2000, 05:53 PM
 
I get the problem with my Wallstreet PB (266). It most often happens when I start up the computer... I get the finder unexpectedly quit error, click OK, and all is fine. It doesn't happen all the time, or even most of the time. once every week or 2 maybe.
I don't use multiple users or kaleidoscope, or have _anything_ in my startup items folder...
I more frequently get not enough memory errors when I try to open a window in the finder. Sometimes even when I close one... it says not enough memory, then it closes a bunch of windows, including the one I wanted to close... what's with that?
     
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Feb 16, 2000, 06:32 PM
 
OK... I used to have the SAME exact problem John. I have worked a bit with my mac since then and now it crashes significantly less.

Let me tell you what I did.

All conventional Apple troubleshooting techniques didn't seem to do a damn thing.... and trust me I know them all. THis problem does not tend seem to be system software related. It is a deep down core problem. Norton disk doctor/ and conflict catcher were no help. ( I hate conflict catcher... it just causes more conflicts then it catches)

However, I used disk warrior 2.0 (which all of you should buy) to replace my directory and then I used techtool (free version) to zap the all of my PRAM and to replace the entire destop file. My goal was to clean up what MacOS sat on with out having to re-format. ( I also defragmented with norton speed disk.... however I doubt that really matters)

After doing all of this I find that I rarely have random unexplainable crashes. Actually the only crashes that I seem to get now are usually linked to MacAST (which needs an update) and beta software.

So... my advise... screw all of those tips for using conflict catcher. If you are posting in here I trust you are tech savvy enough to know how to clean up your system folder with what's between your ears. If you have the cash buy Disk Warrior... it is fantastic... I can't stress that enough. Moreover... use the free-bee techtool app from micromat to clear out any gunk in thedesktop or PRAM. MacOS's zapping and rebuilding only does a little tinny bit of those jobs.

Ohh and always check/repair with norton or disk first aid before you use any of these products.
"Wait, these aren't my lamps. These lamps have feet. This must not be my apartment. I'd better get a new apartment."
-SpaceGhost
     
Mark Roberts
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Feb 16, 2000, 08:10 PM
 
I am having this trouble running OS8.5. I'll get a message, normally generated by Norton's Crash Gaurd, that the finder has unexpectedly quit.....Maybe I should turn Crash Gyuard off!!

Originally posted by John_Engels:
This alert occurs constantly on startup with my G3/300 (OS 9). The Finder seems not actually to have quit...things go on as usual, though I do get freezes occasionally for no observable reason. This has been going on for months, and I've done everything I can think of...clean installs, trashing Finder Prefs, ASLM prefs, etc., increasing the Finder's heap share, cutting my extensions down to the absolute minimum. This happens only with OS 9. I sometimes run OS 8.6 with the same set of extensions, and the quit never takes place. Thus it seems OS 9-specific. I'd appreciate any advice anyone may have to offer.
     
Hankermac
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Feb 16, 2000, 08:28 PM
 
I had the same trouble with my Mac and I used Conflict Catcher to trace it to the Control Strip extension. After disabling it my system has been rock solid.
     
Tom Peacock
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Feb 17, 2000, 01:33 AM
 
I "fixed" finder crashes on three different Macs by removing all of the system Palm Pilot stuff and putting them in a separate startup.
     
dhdalpra
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Feb 17, 2000, 02:49 AM
 
If you are using Norton Utilities (epsecially ver. 4) consider switching to TechTool Pro. At the very least, disable CrashGuard and Filesaver. I second the nomination of DiskWarrior as an indispensable utility. Kensington Mouseworks is a candidate for problems. Also try turning off the "Remember recently used items..." feature in Apple Menu Options. If you are using Virex, make sure you have the latest beta (ver. 6.1b3). Finally, make sure some application didn't dump a copy of ObjectSupportLib on your drive. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by dhdalpra (edited 02-17-2000).]
     
chuckles
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Feb 17, 2000, 05:27 AM
 
Golly gee Batman!
Another finder quit unexpectedly...
That's not exactly true.
I have come to expect it...arrrg!

IMAC DV SE, 256 MB ram, lots of peripherals and extensions

My finder quit so often, especially after installing the IE Explorer update that my system wouldn't reboot. Got a number of type 41 errors and then it was like there was no finder at all.

After a massive rebuild and reading through this MacNN forum... I have learned the following...

Of course related to my unique finder quitting situation:

Turning off contextual menus did not work for me.

A diskwarrior rebuild (and the software does rock!) did not work for me. But makes a pretty blue transition and improves efficiency.

The contextual menu idea sounded good because I observed that the finder quitting seems to correspond to a "call" to the system, but maybe not related to the contextual menus.

I tried turning off some particulary offending extentions, like, all the Microsoft ones and all the AOL ones, to no avail. Conflict Catcher is just like a different type of torture altogether. Avoided that like slipping mulptile CD's in my drive for a good time.

PLEASE ponder the following confirmed observations. Someone knowledagble may recognize the significance of THE following behaviors...

My finder always quits when I double click on....

any .pdf file
and
any .html file

I haven't observed it yet happening during any other process.

Both of these actions "hand-off" the file to their respective programs and it quits the finder immediately.

Ten shutting down or restarting stops early leaving only the mouse pointer frizen and the background visible, top menu bar is only white at that point.

All I can do then is press the restart button.

Restart is fiine...so far...

Please help solve this before my finder gets corrupted again...

     
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Feb 17, 2000, 08:38 AM
 
Since posting my original message both here and in the Macfixit forum, I've received much advice, for which I thank everyone. What seems to have worked for me (knock wood!) is disabling ATI 3D Accelerator, zapping the PRAM and rebuilding the desktop with TechTool 1.1.9. I also went the Norton Utilities/Disk Warrior route. Conflict Catcher was no help since the problem was erratic. But several responses on the Macfixit forum pointed to Action Menus, which I've disabled and replaced with BeHierarchic. I've had no problems since. But who knows?
     
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Feb 17, 2000, 08:50 AM
 
...I almost forgot. Following the advice in several posts I disabled virtual memory, and installed Ram Doubler 9 in its place. It's all very much catch-as-catch-can. (p.s., Why should those yellow dialogue boxes be unclosable with CMD-W? It's like one of those deliberately annoying shareware strategies, e.g. Kaleidoscope.)
     
Mac Elite
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Feb 17, 2000, 10:42 AM
 
The trick may be zapping the pram, I did so several times, and have not had a problem yet. I have CC and know how to use it, but it has it's limits. Disk Warrior Sounds Good, BUT, will CC, DW, Norton anything, techtools be any good with OS X? I am just wondering if purchasing any of these programs are worth it if they become unusable under the OS that should be release this summer.
     
chuckles
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Feb 17, 2000, 12:51 PM
 
chuckles revisited...

I really need to know what the indication of the finder quitting when I try to open a .pdf or .html file means

If the majority of quittings are similar to mine. I firmly believe all will see it again, regardless of zapping the PRAM...
     
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Feb 17, 2000, 01:53 PM
 
Guess what? one startup after my last post the finder unexpectedly quit. C'est la vie, I guess.
     
chuckles
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Feb 17, 2000, 02:50 PM
 
We can figure this out! Thanks to everyone too! Unfortunately immersed in co-miseration.

For good measure I have:
Did a Disk Warrior rebuild on all main disks.

Zaped the PRAM trice with Techtool pro 2

Rebuilt the desktop of all main disks with TTPro2

Still got the problem. Didn't wish it reoccur on anyone.

Aside: Hopefully it's not related to my ARA disconnecting frequently too.

PLEASE all observe if it happens when opening a .pdf or a .html file

It also happened when I opened a .exe but that is likely another story or confounding.

Question?
What does a .pdf and a .html file have incommon when addressing the system as to cause a finder quit?

Could it also happen with any file addressing the system in this way or only files that are identified with a period starting the suffix (as .pdf and .html)

Any word from Apple in this?

Everyone likes a puzzle...

     
Jon S
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Feb 17, 2000, 04:28 PM
 
Palm Desktop 2.5 might be the culprit; I've had many shutdown freezes since installing it.
     
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Feb 22, 2000, 07:49 AM
 
I had this problem and identified it as the kensington startup extension. By forcing it to load last, the problem went away. BTW-the newest version of this software (5.31?) is very unstable for me and Kensington acknowledges many reports of problems and they are working on it. So, use their 5.30 software.
     
chuckles
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Feb 23, 2000, 05:20 PM
 
Oh well, It's happening again.

The progression involves more and more finder quits until my system fails. Techtool reported bundle bit problems and repaired them but also "minor" repairs needed involving file structure, bad data blocks. The finder quitting is damaging data blocks.

I tried the recent suggestions of turning off Palm desktop 2..5 stuff and I have no Kensington software or extentions.

I am hoping not have to due another system reinstall or rebuild.

Also my Apple Automatic Software Update doesn't work anymore and I get disconnects when going online even with my browser...

As a Mac evangelist from the start, I hope everyone else is having better luck.

Arrrrrg!

     
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Feb 23, 2000, 10:26 PM
 
several posts back in this thread there was mention of Norton CrashGuard... this thing is a full-blown travesty and it (CrashGuard) should be eliminated from one's HD with extreme prejudice.
     
chuckles
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Feb 23, 2000, 11:17 PM
 
looked a little deeper...
while reviewing my tools again and applying judiciously
Tech tool pro
Disk warrior
Virex (intensified the setting)
Agax

Agax returned...
possible SevenDust found in preference file,"Fike Exchange Prefs"

I trashed it twice
It showed up as possibly infected again

Trashed it and started looking for my copy of Burn

It's gone now and after this session I will see if is back and risk clicking on
some .pdf files and .html files. These are the ones which, as stated in a prior post from me, caused my finder to quit.

Question to anyone who knows:
Would it make sense that a corrupted (infected with SevenDust) File Exchange Pref. cause the finder to quit when I clicked on the above mentioned files?

NOTE TO FINDER QUITTERS:
Turn up your virus protection (with compressed files also)!
Get a good virus scanner and Agax!
Beware during installations when protection is recommended off!

STAMP OUT WORMS and where they came from!


     
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Feb 23, 2000, 11:32 PM
 
not to 'dis' Agax, WormScanner is nice and free as well:
http://users.aol.com/jwwalker/pub/Wo...-2.3.1.sit.bin

or

ftp://ftp.jwwalker.com/WormScanner-2.3.1.sit.bin
     
chuckles
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Feb 24, 2000, 11:30 AM
 
The saga continues...

I still have the finder quitting.

My File Exchange Pref's is o.k. for now

No SevenDust rearing it's ugly head...

.pdf's and .html files still cause the finder to quit

Help
     
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Feb 24, 2000, 12:03 PM
 
sorry if this has been suggested before...

have you disabled the Virex Scheduler extension?

if you have tried everything and it seems you have, perhaps a reinitialisation and install would be your last resort, it is not that drastically hard to do...
     
Tony Trewinnard
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Feb 24, 2000, 01:46 PM
 
To Chuckles: (who I guess is not chuckling much these days):

The common thread among all the replies on this subject has been that removing an extension has fixed the problem - for me it was Globalfax, for others Palm extentions, contextual menus, etc etc.

If we assume that that the problem is not virus related, but some conflict between system components, then it appears that if you can find the extension which is causing the problem you can eliminate it.

Your weekend homework :-) is to go through all your extensions until you find the one that is causing the problem - chances are it will be a different one to any that have been mentioned so far.

The next question of course is: what is it about all these different extensions which cause this issue with OS9?

Tony Trewinnard
     
chuckles
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Feb 24, 2000, 03:42 PM
 
Thanks Tony!
Excellent suggestion...
I won't be lazy anymore and expect everthing to work after install...
I will start with only Apple extensions
and virus protection
then increase them to include my peripheral extentions
then if all is running smoothly
add the bells and whistles

thanks for the prompting!

What ever it is nibbles away at my system, my netscape is quitting too now

It all increases slowly to system instability

To advance the cause of continuing speculation...
Why is Apple pulling the AOL software...hmmmm...

onward to homework weekend

(File...how do you spell file..File..how do you spell file...)
     
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Feb 24, 2000, 07:44 PM
 
Has anyone thought to look in Extension Folder for the bad culprit ObjectSupportLib?

I have OS9 in a G4 that is only 2weeks old and I installed Adobe Photo Deluxe into it for my new scanner.....got a few unexplained quits and freezes. Looked around and sure enough, OSL was in there. Trashed it and rock solid since.

Just a thought.
     
foxfourgib
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Feb 29, 2000, 04:12 PM
 
To prevent ObjSupportLib from being installed by poorly behaving updaters simply place an empty folder named ObjSupportLib in your extensions folder. This was reported on Salon's Mac Tech Support thread and does appear to work by fooling the updater somehow. Just a tip.
     
chuckles
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Mar 2, 2000, 12:36 PM
 
My long homework weekend of turning off all extensions and turning them on again in a logical order was a success.

After starting with a base set of Apple extensions and turning on others of increasing priority to me and to peripherals I found that AGAX DEFENDER EXTENSION, caused my finder quittings.
Then turning it off returned my IMAC to me
(bring back
bring back
bring back my IMAC to me, To me...)
Oooops sorry..
functioning computers make me giddy...

I have informed Agax of the issue and have not heard back yet.

I still use the Agax Application but not the corresponding Defender extension. It's fairly fast and the online, "verify (worms) over the internet" is a nice feature. Wormscanner has also been recommended in this forum.
I have the newest Virex update and will assume this is adequate to defend me against worms and such.
All seems well on this front..
Now on to my frequent disconnect problem...
alas but that is another forum....
     
Tony Trewinnard
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Mar 2, 2000, 04:07 PM
 
Well done Chuckles.

I am not surprised to hear that for you it was a different extension to any of the others which have fixed the problem on other macs.

It seems as if its not any one particular extension which is the problem, but something with many extensions *do* which causes this.

I hope someone from Apple is reading this and noting the problem.

     
   
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