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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Classic Macs and Mac OS > Finder quits on startup

Finder quits on startup
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Nov 4, 2000, 11:16 AM
 
Running a new DVD iMac with System 9.0.4. MacOs ROM 4.6.1. 96mb RAM, epson stylus 740 and Umax Astra 1220U attached, ethernet connected to old Power Mac (100baseT to 10baseT - though very infrequently).

Have just restored system software afer trying all the usual routes (trashing finder preferenes, zapping PRAM, weeding out the extensions folder to it's bare bones). After the system restore things seemed fine. When virtual memory was turned on however (yes I know we need more RAM) the finder would quit after startup and sometimes the Mac freezes with various error messages... Here are a few experieeced though this list isn't exhaustive.
Error type 41 FBC indexing scheduler
Error type 41 Folder actions
Error type 41 PowerSaving-1220U

Okay so according to Apples error definitions this is
"dsFinderErr can't load the Finder error"

Well, this is pretty obvious as the finder keeps quitting. I just need to know why.

Is it the paucity of RAm and using virtual memory?
Do I need a firmware update?
Is it the powersaving thing that launches on startup for the scanner?
I have tried without the powersaving but it doesn't seem to help.

Is there something obvious I am missing here? I don't have any weird extensions installed... ie no ATM or other "known to be problematic" stuff. I'm 2 days into a software restore so what could it be?

Hope someone can help. Thanks in advance

Tony Eastwood

PS I have run Disk 1st Aid and the hardware tests CD supplied wit the Mac. I don't have Norton or Tech Tool etc.



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WDL
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Nov 4, 2000, 12:22 PM
 
While shut down, unplug all the USB devices then startup. See how it behaves now.

WDL
     
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Nov 4, 2000, 12:58 PM
 
Transferring to the Mac OS forum...
     
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Nov 4, 2000, 01:28 PM
 
I should have said...

I have already tried starting up without anything attached. I still had the same problem. Thanks anyway.

Tony Eastwood

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Nov 4, 2000, 02:46 PM
 
There are many thing that cause this, I have performed clean installs and then had finder quit for no apparent reason.
Usually it comes after installing a third part app or UMAX software.
I usually go to extention mgr and disable everything I don't have a real use for.
There is about 50 extentions you won't ever use.
•UMAX may have an Update for scanner drivers(they usually do)
•Iomega causes probs quite often
•Launcher items
•Desktop Printer
ect, ect
     
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Nov 5, 2000, 03:19 PM
 
Thans for responses so far. Still having probems having followed suggestions posted. Think it may be corrupt RAM or something to do wit virtual Memory. Have spoken with Apple Tech and they were none the wiser.

If I find a fix I will post it here in case anyone else suffers this problem.

thanks again to all.

Tony Eastwood

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Nov 5, 2000, 04:49 PM
 
Take out the Umax control strip module. It's known to cause such problems, and may be the cause of yours.
     
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Nov 6, 2000, 08:35 AM
 
Thanks for new replies. I should have mentioned that one of the first things I did was to remove the Umax control strip... and detached the Scannet USB cable from the keyboard. Another item to cause problems apparently. I'm still getting the problems and am now getting in touch with the supplier yet again to force the issue with them. They ahve been somewhat lax... They can have the MAc back if they carry on this way.
And I will post the fix if it arises.

Thanks again.


Tony Eastwood

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Nov 6, 2000, 03:29 PM
 
Tony,

Try setting your Extensions Manager to 'Mac OS 9 ALL', close Extensions Manager, and Restart. Try some simple applications (not related to your peripherals). If things improve, you can likely assume an extension conflict.

If the Finder continues to crash, drag the Preferences folder to the Desktop, and Restart. Use some simple applications, and Shutdown and Restart the Mac a few times. If things improve, you can assume a corrupt preference file; this is somewhat evidenced by the clean install preventing problems for a short duration.

If things do not improve, you may need to assert some more aggressive repairs, such as deleting some of your invisible files that may have also become corrupted. E.G., do you use AppleShare/Filesharing? Finder crashes are quite common when either the visible AppleShare Prep file, or the invisible AppleShare PDF files become corrupted. Finder crashes may also become somewhat common if the Desktop DB or DF files become corrupt.

I suggest you delete the above named files (regardless of your use of AppleShare) and allow them to be rebuilt, as well as take some more aggressive steps as you might find here:

http://sciencequest.org/support/comp...c/prevent.html
http://sciencequest.org/support/comp...t_rebuild.html
http://sciencequest.org/support/comp...ac/repair.html

HTH

Frederico


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Frederico
batrico@uswest.net
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cpriest
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Nov 6, 2000, 03:55 PM
 
Okay, I posted this answer once, but it said I goofed, so if it shows up twice, I apologize in advance.

I have seen the error 41 on start up several times, I don't know what causes it, but I know how to fix it quickly. The quick fix is to reboot off a systems disk, replace the Finder in the system folder with a new copy, rebless the system, and reboot the machine. This usually keeps things humming along for a few months.

I have over 100 ibooks in a school setting, all loaded with identical software packages, and a few ibooks will do this - the rest are fine. I don't know what causes it, but I'd be interested in finding out.

Good luck,

Crystal
     
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Nov 6, 2000, 04:25 PM
 
I find on a daily basis (10-14 hrs use) that ResEdit and Conflict Catcher 8 will report Minor Repair needed to the System. If I see any modification date to Finder I replace it. So what I have done is after a clean install with all the Apple and some normal installers, I make a self-mounting image of the clean System Folder. That way, I have easy access to clean copies. I just move the System out and replace. Same for Finder. Make sure the icon is intact for System Folder - reboot.

Another thing to keep on hand and run after crashes etc is AutoPurge as OS 9 leaves invisbile temp files around.

Check the Preference folder to see what the last file was when the crash occurred. Install MacsBug.

Gregory
     
Fenzo
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Nov 6, 2000, 05:09 PM
 
Trash every font on your Mac then reload the base 14 fonts. See if this helps. I see font conflicts, font corruption and/or fonts loaded from removable media or server volumes cause this same problem all of the time.
     
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Nov 6, 2000, 06:18 PM
 
Here's yet another possible conflict to consider. Internet Explorer 5.0 is not compatible with Software Update 1.2. This according to TechTool Pro 3.0.2. The fix is to never run Software Update while IE5 is launched. There is an update for Software Update. Version 1.3 was released on the 4th of this month, but I don't know it this clears up the conflict.

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-bo47

"There is no spoon."
     
Yet Another iMac User
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Nov 6, 2000, 06:26 PM
 
I had this same thing happen on my iMac 333(first gen iMac), when I ran a few programs like Conflict Catcher it couldn't find anything. When I started unplugging everything including my keyboard and mouse it booted without a problem. It ended up that my Optical mouse(Microsoft Intelieye) fried the Apple USB keyboard or the mouse itself was the problem after I ruled out the extensions(disabled all the Microsoft Intelimouse stuff). A quick call to Microsoft and they shipped a new mouse and the new mouse didn't cause any problems to the computer. I later called Apple for a new keyboard incase the microslop mouse damaged the usb port.

As you said your iMac is a new model I'm siding towards a bad mouse or both mouse and keyboard issue..... Apple tried sending me two puck mice until I ran out and bought a Microsoft mouse and it ended up being a bad keyboard. If you bought the Apple Care 2yr extension it will cover mouse and keyboard, all you'll need to say is its a keyboard issue as it can't be a internal hardware problem.
I hope this helps.

PS: I chopped off the usb plug off a dead puck mouse and rewired the MS mouse and it works again....maybe it was just a short within the cord or plug.
     
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Nov 7, 2000, 07:27 AM
 
I'm overwhelmed...

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. There are some very interesting ideas and I will now make a schedule and go through the "fixes". I will, of course, let you know how I get on.

Regards and greetings to all. Thanks again

Tony Eastwood
(Somewhere in a very wet and windy England)

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Dec 6, 2000, 08:19 AM
 
Update

Well, we pulled the extra RAM and bought some new... The iMAc is running fine now... I think we must have had "bad" RAM or it wasn't fitted properly. I haven't retried or tested the old RAM so I can't be absolutely sure if this was the problem or not.

Anyway... many thanks to all who offered help. Most remedies were tried but none worked, so I have to assume it WAS the RAM.

Fingers crossed that all will remain hunky dory

Tony Eastwood

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