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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Classic Macs and Mac OS > Are there any die hard OS 9 users left?

Are there any die hard OS 9 users left? (Page 2)
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Posting Junkie
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Jun 12, 2002, 09:57 PM
 
Some people might say "Well Windows XP is fully themeable!". I'll let you in on a little secret... Its not. Microsoft closed the theme format (although some have managed to hack it). Windows 98/2k is much more themable then Win XP.

I don't envision Linux as being the OS of the future, and themes won't help it. Dumping OS X for Linux is stupid. If you got Linux, just what would you do on it? XFree feels like a afterthought, and can't really be used well without trips to xterm. And honestly, I have not seen any Linux themes that look cooler than X themes. X themes can be more than just color variations, look at Windows XP or Sosumi. In my experience, I've found Linux themes are the color variations. (Wow! I changed Linux grey to Windows 98 grey!)

I'd be happy to debate OS X vs. Linux.
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Sap
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Jun 12, 2002, 10:45 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<strong> <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> You're an idiot.

I was discussing the customizability of OS X vs. Dead 9. Not Linux.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">My bad! Thanks for so tactfully pointing out my mistake. After all, your post was a reply to a single, highly subjective sentence quoted straight out of a post that I personally wrote. I mean, what was I thinking?

But anyways, now that I know exactly what you're talking about... I guess I should respond again. I don't really care about how customizable OS 9 is vs. OS X. The point of my original post was that in OS X, there are tons of options that I wish I could shut off whereas in OS 9, I'm content with how the OS works.

A classic example is the painful live window resizing. In Linux and pretty much every other OS, I'm able to turn this feature off. In OS X, as I said, it's forced down your throat. You don't want to devote your entire processor to resizing a Mozilla window (slowly at that)? Tough.
     
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Jun 12, 2002, 10:48 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sap:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<strong> <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> You're an idiot.

I was discussing the customizability of OS X vs. Dead 9. Not Linux.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">My bad! Thanks for so tactfully pointing out my mistake. After all, your post was a reply to a single, highly subjective sentence quoted straight out of a post that I personally wrote. I mean, what was I thinking?

But anyways, now that I know exactly what you're talking about... I guess I should respond again. I don't really care about how customizable OS 9 is vs. OS X. The point of my original post was that in OS X, there are tons of options that I wish I could shut off whereas in OS 9, I'm content with how the OS works.

A classic example is the painful live window resizing. In Linux and pretty much every other OS, I'm able to turn this feature off. In OS X, as I said, it's forced down your throat. You don't want to devote your entire processor to resizing a Mozilla window (slowly at that)? Tough.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I certainly don't see a way to turn live window resizing ON in 9...
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Sap
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Jun 12, 2002, 10:56 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by goMac:
I certainly don't see a way to turn live window resizing ON in 9...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Yup. Not a bad thing at all IMHO. To requote the text you just quoted:

"The point of my original post was that in OS X, there are tons of options that I wish I could shut off whereas in OS 9, I'm content with how the OS works."
     
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Jun 12, 2002, 11:01 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sap:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by goMac:
I certainly don't see a way to turn live window resizing ON in 9...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Yup. Not a bad thing at all IMHO. To requote the text you just quoted:

"The point of my original post was that in OS X, there are tons of options that I wish I could shut off whereas in OS 9, I'm content with how the OS works."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Okay, maybe not the best point, but OS X is based on UNIX, making it much mroe customizable than OS 9.
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Jun 12, 2002, 11:23 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"> in OS X, there are tons of options that I wish I could shut off </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Hey, it IS UNIX, 9 times out of 10 it's a simple matter of visiting the good 'ol CLI to disable UI stuff you don't want. I figured since you're SUCH the Linux madman, you'd have figured THAT out yourself, but I guess not.

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"The young people of America need be taught that the only pride they may properly hold is in the content of their character, and the achievements they make. There is no legitimate pride or moral credit to be gained by virtue of sharing the same race with a great and admirable individual. "

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Sap
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Jun 13, 2002, 12:33 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"> in OS X, there are tons of options that I wish I could shut off </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Hey, it IS UNIX, 9 times out of 10 it's a simple matter of visiting the good 'ol CLI to disable UI stuff you don't want. I figured since you're SUCH the Linux madman, you'd have figured THAT out yourself, but I guess not.

Mac Guru</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I don't mean to give off the wrong impression. I am far, far from a Linux guru. I just have YDL installed on my Cube and I think its pretty neat.

But anyways, if you can find some info on what I need to modify in order to disable live resizing, live window dragging, transparency, etc. it would be much appreciated.
     
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Jun 13, 2002, 01:39 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sap:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"> in OS X, there are tons of options that I wish I could shut off </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Hey, it IS UNIX, 9 times out of 10 it's a simple matter of visiting the good 'ol CLI to disable UI stuff you don't want. I figured since you're SUCH the Linux madman, you'd have figured THAT out yourself, but I guess not.

Mac Guru</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I don't mean to give off the wrong impression. I am far, far from a Linux guru. I just have YDL installed on my Cube and I think its pretty neat.

But anyways, if you can find some info on what I need to modify in order to disable live resizing, live window dragging, transparency, etc. it would be much appreciated.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">My point still stands, what exactly would you do in Linux?
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Clinically Insane
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Jun 13, 2002, 04:47 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<strong> <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> You're an idiot.

I was discussing the customizability of OS X vs. Dead 9. Not Linux.

Linux is way more customizable than X and that's with a BIG DUH on the end. If OS X had a windowmanager like a real Unix all sorts of cool ****e would be happening. Not to mention the redraw would be a little faster.

BTW, MacOS X Theme's are HARDLY just hue changes. There is a lot of things that can be done that I didn't screen grab. OS X's theme ability is FAR greater than OS 9's simply because theming it doesn't sacrifice stability for pretty windows like K-Scope did. Open almost ANY app's package contents in OS X and you can customize the CRAP out of that app. There was only so much one could do in ResEdit.

So PLEASE spare me the OS X vs. Linux comparisons in a "Die Hard OS 9" discussion.

Mac Guru</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Kaleidoscope? No thanks... how about the Appearance control panel... heh.

-----------------------

Umm... so, because OSX is Unix, theoretically, it's more customisable; so what? Screw theory. Show me.

Theoretically, OS9 can live drag too.

Actually, WindowMonkey DOES make OS9 do that.

You got anything to turn that off in OSX?

No? Really? Serious? Wait, that'd mean... that'd mean we're right, wouldn't it? Oh no!
     
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Jun 13, 2002, 06:06 AM
 
You havn't won crap. You assume WAY to much. We're working on it, simply because YOU can't do it, doesn't mean it cannot be done. Don't go parading around in your proud pants untill you know 1000% that there is NO way to turn it off. I know there's a way to turn it off per app so I'm sure there is a way to disable it system wide.

We'll keep you posted so you can jump to some more conclusions.

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Clinically Insane
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Jun 13, 2002, 07:34 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<strong>You havn't won crap. You assume WAY to much. We're working on it, simply because YOU can't do it, doesn't mean it cannot be done. Don't go parading around in your proud pants untill you know 1000% that there is NO way to turn it off. I know there's a way to turn it off per app so I'm sure there is a way to disable it system wide.

We'll keep you posted so you can jump to some more conclusions.

Mac Guru</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">As I said, "theoretically" don't mean ****.

If it isn't here now, who cares? Does something that doesn't exist benefit anybody? Nope, I don't think so... do you beg to differ? I'd be happy to take it up with you.

And yeah, you're right, I can't do it. Never claimed I could. It isn't my job. You do that stuff, and I'll do my stuff, and everyones happy.

Of course it's theoretically possible... as is anything, on any system. Hell, theoretically one could run an ssh daemon on OS9, by simply remapping commands... not terribly difficult.

Me, in my "proud pants"? How so? It's quite clear who has the weaker argument here, and because that 'who' is yourself, no need to go making false accusations... it's okay, Mac Guru. We understand your problem.
     
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Jun 13, 2002, 09:59 AM
 
My only problem is that you seem to think you are the **** and that OS 9 is somehow superior to OS X when in MANY ways it is inferior.

You may have a post count higher than anyone here but that sure don't make you mr. hotstuff know it all. You are the king of blanket statements. You say things like "Photoshop for OS X is a waste of time" when you KNOW that's not true. It might not perform to your sky high standards but that sure as hell doesn't make it useless for me or other people. You seem to act like your oppinion matters 100% over anything else on this board. Well I hate to break it to you, but Apple doesn't sit down and say, "we need to develop a tower that will perform to that Cypher guys standards so that he'll aprove of it and all those MacNN guys will buy one". You're just a regular dude just like any one else here.

You sit here and spout off "theoretically this" and "theoretically that" and expect us to value that as a viable argument, then turn around when we say it and discount it all because "well that's threoretical, it isn't really able to do that" nice argument strategy. You say "well window monkey can ADD live resizing" well idnt dat spetchal. I could care less what 3rd party app can ADD a feature to 9. Thing is there HAS to be a lot of 3rd party apps to add substance like live dragging or customizability to 9 because there isn't anything THERE already to do it without them. In X, ~90% of all the customizable things we can do are built in (already there) they just need to be turned off or on and thanks to CLI, we can do that.

I'm through with this retarded argument, it's obvious you'll always stand where you do, and there's nothing much anyone can do to change that.

Laters,
Mac Guru
"The young people of America need be taught that the only pride they may properly hold is in the content of their character, and the achievements they make. There is no legitimate pride or moral credit to be gained by virtue of sharing the same race with a great and admirable individual. "

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Clinically Insane
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Jun 13, 2002, 04:40 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<strong>My only problem is that you seem to think you are the **** and that OS 9 is somehow superior to OS X when in MANY ways it is inferior.

You may have a post count higher than anyone here but that sure don't make you mr. hotstuff know it all. You are the king of blanket statements. You say things like "Photoshop for OS X is a waste of time" when you KNOW that's not true. It might not perform to your sky high standards but that sure as hell doesn't make it useless for me or other people. You seem to act like your oppinion matters 100% over anything else on this board. Well I hate to break it to you, but Apple doesn't sit down and say, "we need to develop a tower that will perform to that Cypher guys standards so that he'll aprove of it and all those MacNN guys will buy one". You're just a regular dude just like any one else here.

You sit here and spout off "theoretically this" and "theoretically that" and expect us to value that as a viable argument, then turn around when we say it and discount it all because "well that's threoretical, it isn't really able to do that" nice argument strategy. You say "well window monkey can ADD live resizing" well idnt dat spetchal. I could care less what 3rd party app can ADD a feature to 9. Thing is there HAS to be a lot of 3rd party apps to add substance like live dragging or customizability to 9 because there isn't anything THERE already to do it without them. In X, ~90% of all the customizable things we can do are built in (already there) they just need to be turned off or on and thanks to CLI, we can do that.

I'm through with this retarded argument, it's obvious you'll always stand where you do, and there's nothing much anyone can do to change that.

Laters,
Mac Guru</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Why do you keep coming back to your same (retarded) argument?

Can't you post anything of actual discussional value in reply to my posts? Seemingly not.

If you want to assume I'm "mr. hotstuff know it all", go for your life. I don't give a ****. You can think what you'll think, and I can think what I'll think. See, there are these things called opinions.

OS9 is much better than X in many ways.

PSX is a waste of time compared to PS in 9.

Dispute those with me - you're not going to win.

Now, it's obvious you can't discuss anything for ****, seeing as you always bring it back to personal insults and your own assumptions - don't assume you know what I'm thinking... that's an insult, coming from a mind like yours.

Go see a psychiatrist... sounds like you need one. You've got a lot of issues, complexes...
     
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Jun 13, 2002, 06:28 PM
 
Okay folks, let's be civil... I understand how everyone has their views, which is 100% fine, but let's express them in a calm and rational way and try to keep level headed about it.
This is a good discussion, and lets keep it that way. I think this exemplifies why we all use (and advocate for) macs. We are passionate about the way we feel and will defend to the death our point of view. I'm not arguing that it's wrong to feel one way or the other, only that we do it in a way that is respectful to each person's opinion.
IMHO there are benefits to both OS9 and X, and just because you use X doesn't mean you aren't (and can't still) be a die hard OS9 user! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> The OS will constantly be evolving and as it does, there will be things we like, and things that might get left behind. But as things get left behind, that is where the great developer community comes in to continue enhancing what Apple has brought with things that people miss.
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Jun 13, 2002, 07:32 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"> Why do you keep coming back to your same (retarded) argument?
Can't you post anything of actual discussional value in reply to my posts? Seemingly not.
If you want to assume I'm "mr. hotstuff know it all", go for your life. I don't give a ****. You can think what you'll think, and I can think what I'll think. See, there are these things called opinions.
OS9 is much better than X in many ways.
PSX is a waste of time compared to PS in 9.
Dispute those with me - you're not going to win.
Now, it's obvious you can't discuss anything for ****, seeing as you always bring it back to personal insults and your own assumptions - don't assume you know what I'm thinking... that's an insult, coming from a mind like yours.
Go see a psychiatrist... sounds like you need one. You've got a lot of issues, complexes... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">You're right, if I dispute something you so blindly believe I WON'T win. You can't argue away someones oppinions. I'll just go waste some more time getting paid using OS X.

Personally I find that you're the same way when it comes to arguing. You claim that I resort to personal insults and assumtions, when you yourself claim that me analyzing a post you made is an INSULT because you ASSUME you know what the **** I am thinking. You sound like a hypocrite to me.

I don'e have any issues that need to be addressed in a shrinks office. The only issue I have is when a pompous overblown arsehole comes along and tells me that I can't argue a point because MY opinions are wrong. We can argue the fine points of OS 9 and OS X till we're blue in the face but the only thing that is going to come of it is about 3 pages of this. I've used the Mac OS for MANY years, I know it inside and out and find that the best OS for the job at this point in time FOR ME is OSX. But that doesn't seem to occur to you. I'll equate your style to that of a friend of mine who is a "die hard PC troll". No matter how many points I bring up reguarding Macs he'll never see them as anything but an annoyance and those "cute little toys" I play with. You see, he's stuck in a world where there is only ONE side to any argument his. If you would just accept the fact that your standards are very high and that OS X is not right for YOU, then everything would be a lot better. People have different needs than you, believe it or not, and what works for me or someone else may not work for you and guess what, that's life.

So just buck up, accept the fact that OS X is a godsend for some people and that OS 9 is yesterdays news for some, and that the afore mentioned may not apply to you.

Mac Guru
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Sap
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Jun 13, 2002, 11:52 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by goMac:
<strong>My point still stands, what exactly would you do in Linux?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Guy, I tried not to respond to your previous post because for one thing, you obviously don't know much about Linux. I'm not trying to flame you, but honestly, I don't think you've ever seriously used Linux (based on your comments about "Linux themes.") Secondly, and more importantly, I don't think you understand the basics about my OS X complaints.

To summarize (yet again) why I dislike OS X more than pretty much every other OS, especially OS 9, is primarily because of the two following facts:

1) It's very slow. Simple tasks like resizing windows, for example, is borderline unusable. Mozilla takes far longer to start up, I get worse FPS in Quake 3, etc.

2) I dislike the look & feel. That doesn't mean I simply dislike the theme (although I do) it means that I dislike the fact that windows have no borders, "focus clicks" are passed through to the window, I don't like the position of the title buttons, etc.

With that in mind, If you really must know the answer to your original question, I would run Quake 3, Mozilla, xchat, electric eyes, gaim, and perhaps some other stuff under Linux.
     
Sap
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Jun 14, 2002, 12:15 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"> "You're right, if I dispute something you so blindly believe I WON'T win. You can't argue away someones oppinions." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Exactly. You seem to have finally grasped the essence of this thread (albeit, in a rather embarrassing, awkward way <img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" /> ) No one is objectively stating that OS 9 is better than OS X. It's called personal preference... Don't worry about it. Why don't you run along now?
     
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Jun 14, 2002, 12:48 AM
 
I am through with this thread.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"> Why don't you run along now? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Yet I am not dismissed like a little child. What you stated in your last post was fine up until this comment. I don't go away that easily.

Mac Guru
"The young people of America need be taught that the only pride they may properly hold is in the content of their character, and the achievements they make. There is no legitimate pride or moral credit to be gained by virtue of sharing the same race with a great and admirable individual. "

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Jun 14, 2002, 01:24 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>OS9 is much better than X in many ways.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><img src="http://homepage.mac.com/adambetts/MacNN/Roll-Eye-Med.gif" alt=" - " />

Care to tell us why do you think OS9 is much better than OSX in many ways? Oh you mean you reallly need color folder label to color your stupidity? Oh yeah, you'll say that OSX is slower... You lost more time using OS9 than in OSX because of the stability. If PSX crashed in OSX, all you need to do is just click on the app icon again and it will launch faster than your OS9 could boot up even with SpeedStartup extension installed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>PSX is a waste of time compared to PS in 9.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Majority of Web/Graphic Designer that I knew (I'm talking about people that design BIG stuffs) far prefer PSX than PS9.

Could you do a little test to show which PSX or PS9 is faster? I think you'll find that 70% of PSX is faster than PS9

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>Dispute those with me - you're not going to win.

Now, it's obvious you can't discuss anything for ****, seeing as you always bring it back to personal insults and your own assumptions - don't assume you know what I'm thinking... that's an insult, coming from a mind like yours.

Go see a psychiatrist... sounds like you need one. You've got a lot of issues, complexes...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Cipher, grow up.
     
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Jun 14, 2002, 01:48 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<strong>I am through with this thread.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"> Why don't you run along now? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Yet I am not dismissed like a little child. What you stated in your last post was fine up until this comment. I don't go away that easily.

Mac Guru</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Heh, sorry about that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

*shakes hand

Good discussions.
     
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Jun 14, 2002, 02:37 AM
 
Adam: You tell me to grow up, and yet previously remark on my "stupidity"?

Wow. That's just great.

I've explained myself many a time, you can go look it up. I'm not going to again.

Most graphic designers I know think OSX is a joke.

Hows that? Great, our comments even out. Wonderful. That was constructive.

I have tested PSX - if you'd care to read the graphic designers thread in OSX Gen, you'd see my points. I'm not going to reiterate... I really don't care enough.

This is my opinion, and you won't convince me otherwise... because what you're saying just isn't true.

MacGuru: Wow, aren't you mature?

Not even worth the effort replying any more than that...
     
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Jun 14, 2002, 06:40 PM
 
9 and X and linux...

i love os9. it's very mac-like. everything is easy and intuitive. osX is slow. my os9 rarely crashes, but i agree that osX is much better handling memory and multitasking. but i'll live with 9 overall snappiness. it makes computing experience much more pleasant when i don't have to wait for windows resizing, and i can just troubleshoot my system by removing a couple 3rd-party extensions from my system folder instead of wading through unix directories, filled with hundred files with cryptic names...

i also have linux installed (yellow dog). i use it when i need to work remotely using x windows programs. it has better memory protection like osX and much faster than osX, and faster than 9 in some respect. although i don't see myself being fulltime linux user because i love my macOS's simplicity. i still haven't figured out how to make my linux print to my epson inkjet. in macOS it's a snap. other things too. while in linux you need to go through some unintuitive 25 steps to get something to work, in macos, it's just much simpler.

but i'm rambling here... i just love my macos9 it's the best os for me.
^_^
     
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Jun 14, 2002, 07:42 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by ae77:
<strong>9
it's the best os for me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Hey Ae77,
I think you said it best... it is the best os for you. I think we all need to take note at that, as some others have also said throughout this thread, there are strengths to all of the OSes mentioned (os9, osx, linux), but it really boils down to what suits the user the best
Thanks for your voice!
dave

<small>[ 06-14-2002, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: ddiokno ]</small>
     
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>Most graphic designers I know think OSX is a joke.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">This may be true (though it's just as true that most programmers think OS 9 is a joke), but you know, if you show OS X to most people (and especially Windows users), they think it's beautiful and are amazed by how elegant the interface is. Sure, a few things like window resizing may be slow, but if your best argument against an OS is that window resizing is slow, well...

My point being, I really couldn't care less if graphic designers dislike OS X. The fact is, to most people, it's a much more attractive interface than OS 9, or any version of Windows or Linux that I've ever seen.

<small>[ 06-17-2002, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: jcb9 ]</small>
     
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Jun 17, 2002, 02:57 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by jcb9:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>Most graphic designers I know think OSX is a joke.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">This may be true (though it's just as true that most programmers think OS 9 is a joke), but you know, if you show OS X to most people (and especially Windows users), they think it's beautiful and are amazed by how elegant the interface is. Sure, a few things like window resizing may be slow, but if your best argument against an OS is that window resizing is slow, well...

My point being, I really couldn't care less if graphic designers dislike OS X. The fact is, to most people, it's a much more attractive interface than OS 9, or any version of Windows or Linux that I've ever seen.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">And that's fair enough; conversely, I couldn't care less what it looks like. I dislike the interface.

And while most people like how it looks, they don't like how slow things can get.

My best argument is far from slow window resizes, however, that is a VERY valid argument...

I'm not even going to bother, though.

If you prefer looks over functionality, good for you. See you at the finish line.
     
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Jun 18, 2002, 05:15 PM
 
I use OS9 simply out of lack of choice - I have G3 wallstreet. However the little I know of OS X does not appeal to me. I am a single user with a single computer, why should I always have to log in every time I use my mac. Perhaps the networking capabilities of OS X is useful for the office environment, but for home users it seems redundant
Judd
     
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Jun 18, 2002, 07:57 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
If you prefer looks over functionality, good for you. See you at the finish line.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Actually, I'll take OS X for functionality too, really. Granted, the GUI can be a bit sluggish at times, but there are other things that more than make up for it. Stability is the obvious one - you can say that OS 9 is stable, but honestly, do you routinely have uptimes of over 15 days in 9?

But aside from that, when I've booted back into 9, I have to say, I've found it very tedious to wait around every time I open a new program, print something out, etc. With OS X, opening applications doesn't seize control of the whole computer - this is a HUGE plus.

I've used every major version of the MacOS since the days of System 6, and I loved Classic greatly. But since I've upgraded to X, well, I've never seen any good reason to look back.
     
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Jun 18, 2002, 11:05 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by judd:
<strong>I use OS9 simply out of lack of choice - I have G3 wallstreet. However the little I know of OS X does not appeal to me. I am a single user with a single computer, why should I always have to log in every time I use my mac. Perhaps the networking capabilities of OS X is useful for the office environment, but for home users it seems redundant
Judd</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Hey Judd,
I'm confused... do you have to log in when you use OS9, or OSX? Both operating systems have ways to enable or disable using login at start-up.
Also, I'm curious... what do you mean buy the networking capabilities of OSX is useful for the office environment, but for home users it seems redundant . I'm not quite sure what you are referring to ?
thanks
dave
     
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Jun 18, 2002, 11:21 PM
 
OSX's networking abilities are sub-par.

OS9 is much more finished when it comes to that. Given time X's will be good, but right now, they're pretty shocking.

ddiokno, perhaps judd doesn't like the idea of having to have a multi-user oriented filing system. It is a bit of a turn off.

JCB9: Yeah, I can honestly say I get 15 day uptimes with OS9...
     
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Jun 19, 2002, 02:23 AM
 
See you around. It was nice having you here while it lasted, Have fun in Windows and Linux. TTYL

Mac Guru


Doh!

YOU were the person who brought Linux into the discussion with YOUR previous comment.

You were way wrong, regardless, because both Linux and Windows are far more customizeable than OSX ever will be.
*empty space*
     
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Jun 19, 2002, 04:04 AM
 
Besides stability what other benefits do regular OSX users find that they did not have in 9?

I am still using 9 and so far I don't see any reason to change. I routinely have over a dozen apps open at once and my computer rarely crashes. I always shut it down at night so I don't know about up times but I use it every day and I might get 1-2 crashes a month. I do like how OSX protects my other apps if one crashes. I hate it when dreamweaver locks up and kills everything I was working on in photoshop.

Maybe I am missing something because I don't know anything about UNIX but to me OSX doesn't seem to offer enough incentives to make the switch. I find no features in OSX that would improve my ability to work with my computer.
     
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Jun 19, 2002, 06:44 AM
 
I just read a post in a german forum where someone asked if he should update to 8.6.....
Murphy's Second Corollary:
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
     
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Jun 19, 2002, 03:39 PM
 
[/QUOTE]Hey Judd,
I'm confused... do you have to log in when you use OS9, or OSX? Both operating systems have ways to enable or disable using login at start-up.
Also, I'm curious... what do you mean buy the networking capabilities of OSX is useful for the office environment, but for home users it seems redundant . I'm not quite sure what you are referring to ?
thanks
dave[/QB][/QUOTE]

Hey Dave
I did not know you can disable the login at start-up on OSX. As I said, what little I know of OSX makes me think that it was designed for multiple users using the same computer and for it's networkin capabilities. On OS9 the login at startup does not come as default, infact it seems that it was an after thought.It's no big deal, but to many home users who are not power users or who do not share a computer with anyone, the whole login at start-up seems a bit of a waste of time. A bit like the old windows one.

As for the second comment, really what I meant was networking capabilities in general for a home user are not very important, as they usually have 1 computer. So the easier it is to understand the better. Maybe I have not tested OSX enough, but when I go to an Apple store, the salesman has not convinced me of one benefit that I will have over OS9. Maybe you can. I am a freelance graphic designer, who works mainly at home. I have a G3 wallstreet that does not crash much under OS9. I use Xpress, PS etc. My worries are that OSX would be very slow with my G3, I would have to buy more RAM, I don't need to login at startup, can't afford to upgrade my apps to OSX, i would have to learn my way round the new OS, and limited control over the desktop. Please convince me.

To me personally, this is why I am happy with OS9. But everyone has different needs, so for some people OSX fits the bill.
     
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Jun 19, 2002, 05:28 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by judd:
Hey Dave
.... To me personally, this is why I am happy with OS9. But everyone has different needs, so for some people OSX fits the bill.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Hey Judd,
The key is that it works for you! DIdn't mean to sound harsh, not at all... just misunderstood your question. I think that with your Wallstreet, you will be happier with OS9, as X would be a little sluggish on your hardware.
By default, multiple users in X is also off, setting it to automatically log you in at start-up... it is when you add more users that it gives the option to keep single log-in or more (which is nice in a multiple user family). One benefit I foudn to the networking in X is that it is pretty automatic... meaning that I used to have to set-up my location manager to for different locations... work, home, traveling, etc (which was great and would allow me access to different networks, printers, etc), whereas now in OSX, it is all automated where I no longer need to set-up different locations (it jsut works where it senses whether it is airport, ethernet or modem), and I can still force (ie turn off different ports) ports if I want to. I find this very nice, and several clients have also liked this feature because location manager could often get its preferences changed.
I think another huge benefit is that it is much harder to inadvertantly trash important system files...
Anyway, I think that you have found a system that works for you (OS9) and that's great! I think that is the single most important thing! When there are compelling reasons for you to make the switch, then great! You'll be welmcomed to OSX with open arms! you'll find support here either way! I think that is evidenced by all of the passion and fire that has been demonstrated in this thread! There are no right answers, just many correct and differeing opinions!
take care and regards!
dave
     
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Jun 19, 2002, 07:15 PM
 
Anyway, I think that you have found a system that works for you (OS9) and that's great! I think that is the single most important thing! When there are compelling reasons for you to make the switch, then great! You'll be welmcomed to OSX with open arms! you'll find support here either way! I think that is evidenced by all of the passion and fire that has been demonstrated in this thread! There are no right answers, just many correct and differeing opinions!
take care and regards!
dave[/QB][/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree with you more.
     
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Jun 19, 2002, 11:52 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Hörnchen:
<strong>I just read a post in a german forum where someone asked if he should update to 8.6.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Tell him to stick with 7.
     
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Jun 20, 2002, 02:39 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by speckledstone:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Hörnchen:
<strong>I just read a post in a german forum where someone asked if he should update to 8.6.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Tell him to stick with 7. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I'd love to try System 6 myself

(my first OS was 7.5 something )
^_^
     
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Jun 25, 2002, 11:56 AM
 
I have Mac OS X v.10.1.5 installed on my platinum G3/266, and it runs respectably (not phenomenally, but respectably). Unfortunately, Epson still hasn't released X-compatible drivers for my $500 printer (and at this point, I'm thinking, probably never will). The same goes for Pacific Image (my scanner manufacturer) and Castlewood (who makes the ORB drive). In other words, until the peripheral manufacturers get off their butts (or I get some new peripherals, which isn't going to happen any time soon), I’m stuck. <img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>G4/400 with 704 megs of RAM...
iMac 600 with 256.
iBook 600 with 384 (not mine, technically, but eh).

I had a dual gig G4 here for a week or so, and it was... well, acceptable.

I think my speed standards are just different to yours, then... I'm quite an impatient persons when it comes to non-sentient objects... well, even sentient ones... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">same...
     
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Jul 5, 2002, 10:26 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by zilmer:
<strong>We (advertising agency) have office full of PowerMacs and not a single one of them runs on X yet. OS9 has been stable and all the work has been done with it this far and therefore people really tend to think that it is still wise to wait until shifting to X. I bet it will happen somewhere during early 2003.

I have tried X on my G4/466 home computer and went back to 9 for now. I really really don't like the anti-aliased text on small sizes and I probably wont shift before there will be an option available to modify the X settings more than right now is possible.

I believe many web-designers are not very keen shifting to X as well yet, since if you look at what has been happening during last years - the rise of pixelated fonts and small crisp and clearley readable text and graphics - they won't be really interested in UI X offers. At first sight... X seems damn clumsy when we talk about interface. And I totally agree with Targon - the grey text IS hard to read. Plus - the overall light and bright interface is much more difficult to catch with an eye than the crisp and clean OS 9.

Other than this - I believe the stability in X is superb. Also the speed seems to be quite OK in 10.1.4. I hope 10.2 will be even better, but more than the speed, I miss the option "to make the picture crisp" ifyouknowwhaddaimean! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">For home use, and casual web development it's OSX all the way.

Occasionally I go into OS9 for a Dreamweaver session, but classic works pretty well (xcept darn printer). Mostly have to go to 9 for the kids when they want to play a game. By day, in publishing, where 9 still rules (QXP, PS, ILLUS). But would even expect to see that change by end 2003.

Overall, prefer X by a wide margin.
     
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Jul 7, 2002, 01:35 PM
 
Switched back to os 9 after 9 months of X. used essentially the same apps as in os 9 but the pretty poor reposniveness of X (speed) at last got to me. i like the look and stability of x but os 9 on my imac dv 400 slot loader w~ 400 ram, is much much faster than os x.1.4 and .1.5. browsing on X is a pain. the browsers are slow! everything on 9 opens and runs much faster. the X dock was usefu and it is simple to install a docklike thing in 9 from the action menus people.

i'm wondering what kind of system will run os x as fast as os 9. whatever it is it's not out yet. not sure exactly why people would spend alot of money to switch to x apps that are slower, when the functionality is already in 9. (maybe it's the aqua look, i don't know.) right now i can't think of one 9 app that has been developed for X, that does not do exactly the same thing faster.

<small>[ 07-07-2002, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: pliny ]</small>
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Jul 7, 2002, 04:06 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>OSX's networking abilities are sub-par.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Would you care to elaborate? I would honestly like to know where you think OSX's networking abilities are lacking compared to OS9.

In OSX, I have been able to use a cable modem and DSL modem without installing any extra software. I plugged it in, clicked "Connect using PPPoE" in the System Prefs and I was finished. I had tried in OS9 once, but when I found that I needed extra software to get it working, I didn't bother.

Also, in OSX, I have a firewall configured again with no extra software. How would I do this in OS9?

Also, in OSX, I have NAT set up to share my internet connection with my other Mac. No extra software. How would I do this in OS9?
The server made a boo boo. (403)
     
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Jul 7, 2002, 08:05 PM
 
My words of wisdom: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> there's plenty to like about OS X as well as OS 9. Everybody use what you like and don't get so upset if someone else doesn't use the same thing you do.

I use OS X, but if the next guy wants to use OS 9 it doesn't bother me. (Of course it will become more of a problem when new Macs can no longer boot OS 9, but for the time being...)

<small>[ 07-07-2002, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: dn15 ]</small>
     
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Jul 7, 2002, 10:21 PM
 
i love mac os 9.
faster and simple.
Moreno | manuel.moreno@netcabo.pt
     
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Jul 8, 2002, 03:20 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by starfleetX:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>OSX's networking abilities are sub-par.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Would you care to elaborate? I would honestly like to know where you think OSX's networking abilities are lacking compared to OS9.

In OSX, I have been able to use a cable modem and DSL modem without installing any extra software. I plugged it in, clicked "Connect using PPPoE" in the System Prefs and I was finished. I had tried in OS9 once, but when I found that I needed extra software to get it working, I didn't bother.

Also, in OSX, I have a firewall configured again with no extra software. How would I do this in OS9?

Also, in OSX, I have NAT set up to share my internet connection with my other Mac. No extra software. How would I do this in OS9?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I wouldn't need a firewall in OS9.

Let me clarify - sub-par consistency-wise. I must've been rushed when I typed that.

I'm not gonna argue a point I know is wrong... I know OSX is far better for networking. Part and parcel of that whole Unix thing.

The implementation in OSX is very poor so far, especially gui-wise.

You try to set up a firewall, or NAT, on OSX, if you don't know UNIX. Right.

When I say "OSX", I'm talking Aqua... I don't care what else is under the hood... just what can be used easily right now.

File length problems, AppleTalk incompatibilities, and so on... having to reboot to have changes take effect sometimes, but not others (I can't figure that one out)...

Get where I'm coming from?
     
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Jul 8, 2002, 06:50 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by starfleetX:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>OSX's networking abilities are sub-par.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Would you care to elaborate? I would honestly like to know where you think OSX's networking abilities are lacking compared to OS9.

In OSX, I have been able to use a cable modem and DSL modem without installing any extra software. I plugged it in, clicked "Connect using PPPoE" in the System Prefs and I was finished. I had tried in OS9 once, but when I found that I needed extra software to get it working, I didn't bother.

Also, in OSX, I have a firewall configured again with no extra software. How would I do this in OS9?

Also, in OSX, I have NAT set up to share my internet connection with my other Mac. No extra software. How would I do this in OS9?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I wouldn't need a firewall in OS9.

Let me clarify - sub-par consistency-wise. I must've been rushed when I typed that.

I'm not gonna argue a point I know is wrong... I know OSX is far better for networking. Part and parcel of that whole Unix thing.

The implementation in OSX is very poor so far, especially gui-wise.

You try to set up a firewall, or NAT, on OSX, if you don't know UNIX. Right.

When I say "OSX", I'm talking Aqua... I don't care what else is under the hood... just what can be used easily right now.

File length problems, AppleTalk incompatibilities, and so on... having to reboot to have changes take effect sometimes, but not others (I can't figure that one out)...

Get where I'm coming from?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">the inconsistency in rebooting in X for changes to take effect, is one of the things I wondered about. i wonder if it's a function not of the OS but of some developer options or carry over from 9 methods.
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Jul 10, 2002, 05:35 AM
 
Quite the hot topic!
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Jul 10, 2002, 10:10 AM
 
CIA: indeed
Pliny: Well, the thing was, with OS9, changes always took effect instantly. It was wonderful like that.

As opposed to the Windows 98 machine... where you practically had to reboot after making a new folder

<small>[ 07-10-2002, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Cipher13 ]</small>
     
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Jul 10, 2002, 10:34 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>CIA: indeed
Pliny: Well, the thing was, with OS9, changes always took effect instantly. It was wonderful like that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">you mean for networking?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><strong>As opposed to the Windows 98 machine... where you practically had to reboot after making a new folder </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Lord don't get me started on THAT "os" becasue compared to 3.11 or even 95 it was a step forward but where were they starting from anyways? it is **** poor for networking, just awful.

BTW, I hear that in X.2 there is quite a bit of improved 9 functionality and speed.
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Jul 10, 2002, 10:50 AM
 
The only reason have left for booting into OS9
Unreal Tournament.
Once the OSX version is finished, GOODBYE OS9
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