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Windows long file names on mac?
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loopy
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Oct 24, 1999, 11:22 PM
 
My mac won't display windows long file names on PC disks. So, for example, the word Carmageddon is shortened to CARMAG~1 like in DOS. Is there a setting I can change to display the full file name? Is there an extension which will accomplish this? Thanks.
     
loopy
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Oct 25, 1999, 12:02 AM
 
Okay, after doing a bit more research I found out that the File Exchange control panel in macos 8.6 should display windows long file names. I also noticed that it does the same thing as MacLink Plus.

So I turned off MacLink Plus. Still getting 8.3 DOS filenames.

Then I turned File off and put MacLink Puls back on. Still getting short file names. This is despite the fact that it has a specific option to display long file names.

I'm stumped... all the documentation I've read says that my OS should be displaying long file names. Any ideas? Thanks!
     
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Oct 25, 1999, 01:43 PM
 
I'm not sure with a relatively short name like "carmaggedon". But since Windows supports up to 255 characters for filenames, and the MacOS only does 31, there's no way to display names over 31. So I guess the default is to take the DOS version of the name.

(It's really annoying with MP3's especially)
     
vsolina
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Oct 26, 1999, 04:29 AM
 
This is a problem for other OS's as well in our company, files stored on fileservers that are over 31 characters are not even visible to mac users. Apple needs to implement Unicode filenames ASP before mac users become 2nd class citizens again
     
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Oct 26, 1999, 11:25 AM
 
Hmm. I access long-named Windows files all the time without any problem. You might try trashing the File Exchange preferences and/or reinstalling. You might also want to replace any extensions in your Extensions folder that have UDF in the name.

By the way, File Exchange and MacLink Plus don't quite do the same thing. File Exchange will map the Mac's creator and type codes onto Windows file extensions (the .3), but not touch the contents of the file. MacLink Plus actually translates the file contents into something different programs can understand.

Tod Abbott.
     
Adobe
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Nov 4, 1999, 06:04 AM
 
The problem you are experiencing is a result of Microsoft making up their own file naming convention called Romeo and Joliet <sic>.

Full details of this are available at: http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n20752

There doesn't appear to be any solution.
     
loopy
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Nov 4, 1999, 03:58 PM
 
Wow. I can't believe apple (or even some third party!) hasn't gotten their act together on this one. I've always been very impressed with the cross compatibility of macs. This is a big disappointment.
     
scott
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Nov 6, 1999, 03:13 AM
 
This is a interesting situation. Consider the facts:

o HFS+ supports Unicode filenames.
o The File Manager supports Unicode filenames.
o The Finder does not seem to allow you to input greater than 31 character folder/file names. Nor does any Navigation Services-capable application that I've used.

Finally, there's a rather cryptic developer technote that reads:

"Long unicode file names are now preserved in file copies." http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1176.html

I have no idea what this actually means inthe real world, however.


So while all the components seem to be there, 255 character filenames do not seem to work for me, although "gtabbott" seems to have had some success.

Also note that this is not merely an issue that Apple can instantly fix. Applications must also be modified to support it. Most notably, but supporting Navigation Services. My *guess* is that 255 unicode filename support is a standard part of Carbon, and that all Carbon-compliant applications must support it.

- Scott

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WarDawg
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Nov 7, 1999, 05:09 PM
 
You guys are mixing concepts here. Apple started implementing "long" file names at the lowest level possible with HFS+ (Mac OS Extended) formatting in Mac OS 8.1.

In Mac OS 9.0 Apple has rev'd the File Manager to allow "long" file names, provided the underlying file system (HFS+, UFS...) supports it. The File Manager will now properly handle long file names if it runs into them. There are also new ways (opaque data types) of dealing with data pointing to a file which superceeds the old way (FSSpec) which can not handle long file names.

The last piece of the puzzle is the Finder and every other Mac OS program that deals with files. Obviously you cant "just use" long Mac file names when every single program expects no more than 31 chars per Mac file name.

Now for DOS disks, I dont think floppies work with the long file names from Windows9x very well *on the Mac*. File Exchange is rather finicky and may need a reinstall or have its prefs trashed to work properly as well.

The Mac OS doesn't directly support "DOS" fomratted disks, it uses a plug-in system that adds the abilities to recognize other file systems such as DOS to the point you can pop in a disk and see/use the files. Beyond that basic ability its hit or miss what features will be supported.

The Mac OS *should* now see the metafilenames that Windows uses to make it appear that the DOS 8.3 file names are really up to 255 chars. I have not seen it work yet, however.

The Mac formatted disks will not automatically use Windows "long" file names if you download the file or have it on a Mac disk. It just doesn't work that way. Windows simply puts a different name on the actual file to make it appear that the file is really named "Carmageddon 20000" and not "CARMG~20.BIP" or whatever idiocy Windows uses.
     
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Nov 7, 1999, 05:53 PM
 
Long Windows Filenames

loopy: what exact type of "disk" are you trying to get the long filenames off of?

from what i've seen, File Exchange (Previously called PC Exchange) will allow the MacOS to read up to 31 characters off of a long windows filename *if* the file is on any media except a CD

like if you copy files onto a ZIP disk on the windows machine, then take that zip disk to a mac, it'll read up to 31 characters of that name (actually, it's something like 26-28, the last few are a code so if the first 26 or so characters are the same the code will be different for each file)

but if the "disk" is a CD there is something different about the way the filesystem is stored on the disk compared with other media types, and File Exchange only read the standard DOS file names that exist.

(I don't know the specifics of why this is, only that i've used floppies, zip disks, cd's and other removable types, and have notice the different behaviour between CD's and all the other media types)
     
loopy
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Nov 7, 1999, 07:10 PM
 
I am using CD's. I was wondering if that was the problem. Thanks very much for that info.

     
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Nov 7, 1999, 11:26 PM
 
This may not be useful to everybody but...

The way I handle MSWindows long filenamed CDROMs is to put the CD into a MSWindows computer and then use that computer to FTP the files over to my Mac. I'm using MacOS8.6 with Netpresenz as an FTP server. The long filenames are transfered.

When you consider that you can get a PC with CDROM drive for the price of diving into the appropriate dumpster (or at flea markets, PC junk stores etc), it's probably worth having one around. It'll cost you an additional $15 for the 10baseT ethernet card. Then you don't have to let the icky PC CDROM get inside of your Mac. haha.

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Tadd Torborg
     
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Nov 7, 1999, 11:43 PM
 
From the manual to Toast 4 Deluxe, the premiere CD-ROM creating tool on the Mac:

"4-23
Joliet
Frequently Asked Question (FAQ)
Question: When I mount a Joliet CD I created with Toast on the
Macintosh computer, why are the Joliet names shown in the DOS 8.3
filename/extension format?
Answer: Apple’s PC Exchange or File Exchange control panel does
not support the Joliet naming convention on CDs. Because of the
limitation of PC Exchange/File Exchange, Joliet long filenames are
truncated when the Joliet CD is mounted on the Macintosh
computer desktop."
     
tomlang
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Nov 8, 1999, 04:05 AM
 
Here's the way I heard the story.

Microsoft stores two directories on Windows CDs. One in Joliet format shows long filenames (255 characters), and one in DOS 8+3 format.

Microsoft holds the rights to the Joliet format, and will not license those rights to Apple, leaving only the DOS format available for Apple's use.

Now that Microsoft and Apple have cross-license agreements, this issue may be resolved soon. We can only hope.
     
Jo
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Nov 8, 1999, 08:29 AM
 
I used to have that problem, too. I don't have a solution for using long file names, but for copying files from Joliet CD-ROMs. There is an application from Astarte called CD-Copy. THis can be used as a viewer for the file names. Files or folders can be dragged to other volumes and they will keep ther long file names (at least up to the 31st char). The only problem wih this is that the creation and modification time stamps are set to the time when the file is "downloaded". This solution is not cheap but it's the best way plus you get the other nice features of this app.
     
pieman
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Nov 24, 1999, 08:14 PM
 
Well I'm not sure about that CD rule people are talkinng about. I have a zip disk (PC formatted) to transfer PC Filemaker files to my Mac.

Anything over 8.3 gives those ugly filenames like Loopy said. Mac to PC is fine though (which is the total opposite of most cross-platform file exchanging!)
     
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Nov 30, 1999, 06:39 PM
 
FOr anyone who's wondering, the reason that long file names show up on non-CDs, but are not shown on CD-ROMs is that while support for PC floppies, etc goes through File Exchange (which invisibly makes the PC format appear as Mac), PC CD-ROM (ISO 9660) support is native, and doesn't undergo any conversion/translation whatsoever.


tooki
     
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Dec 5, 1999, 07:17 AM
 
taking tooki's information, I used Disk Copy to make a disk image of a PC CD, then copied the files off the mounted image. hey presto 31 character filenames
I remembered that Disk Copy's images are just "disks"
Aaron
     
Dr. Ghoti
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Dec 6, 1999, 02:16 PM
 
For prepressed CD's, even Microsoft won't seem to use long-file names. So, no worries there.

When I'm burning a CD for cross-platform compatability (Mac-Win, Win-*nix, *nix-Mac), I'll use ISO9660 format, but relax the rules (both Adaptec Toast (for Mac) and Easy Creator (Win)) to allow up to 30 characters. Then I'll use creative naming tatics so that I can fit all I want on it.

For most things, it's no problem, but naming MP3's in 30 characters is not easy, as any Mac-fan will tell you.

Prince-NothingCompares2U
DBowie-AfraidOfAmericans

Creative use of caps and spelling like a warez kiddie gets the job done.


Doc Fish -- Listening to MP3's in his evil underwater lair.
     
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Dec 7, 1999, 05:43 PM
 
FYI, volumes (hard drives, removables, etc.) can only have 27 characters. All other files can have 31 (as several people have pointed out).

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