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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Classic Macs and Mac OS > PM 9600

PM 9600
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Aug 17, 2000, 09:43 AM
 
I need help making a decision, I have a PM 5500 with a G3 card installed and 128 MB RAM. I am thinking of trading this with a PM 95/9600 and upgrade that to a G4. Don't suggest I buy a new system as I can't afford one at all
What is the bus speed on the 9600?
     
Tintim
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Aug 17, 2000, 09:58 AM
 
Check at http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ If you can trade for a 9600 I think it is worth it but the 9500 is a bit old.
     
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Aug 18, 2000, 04:22 AM
 
95/9600 systems are great in terms if upgradeability. I would certainly say it would be a good idea. the only prob is that some dealers really put a price hike on those old 6 slot macs. I reckon a good cheap option would be to go for an all-in-one G3. I have found them for $750 (same as what I reckon a 9600 might cost) before and they are a great system. Furthermore, they come with 3 PCI slots, I think a 66Mhz bus and are ZIFF slot upgradeable!!! Just a few thoughts!!
Pete C. (PB12" 1.5Ghz 160GB hdd, 1.25GB RAM, OS X 10.4.11)
     
The Wolfe
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Aug 19, 2000, 01:17 AM
 
I agree with MacNZ, that an All-In-One PowerMac G3 would be a good decision. MacWorks.com has them for $799 in 266MHz configs. They're good machines because they have three PCI slots, they have every AV and I/O ports (except USB/Firewire) avilable (including video out for connection to a bigger moniter) and a nice high quality display built in.

The main computer lab at my old school has 16 of these machines, and in two years of hard student use only one of the machines ever had trouble, and it was a simple powersupply failure. They're great machines.

Another cool thing is that you can add an internal Zip drive if you so please. The front plastic allows for this option on all G3 AIO's.

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Eliott Wolfe
Winnetka, Calif
     
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Aug 26, 2000, 07:28 PM
 
9600/300 and 9600/350 (also 8600-250/300) had 100MHz busses and can be made to be almost as fast as current models... I have an 8500 with a G3-400 clokked to 454MHz(56.8 MHz bus) and it screams...what I could do with a 100MHz bus...
     
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Aug 26, 2000, 09:22 PM
 
I have a PM 9600 and I will be soon upgrading it to a G3-500 mhz daughter card from Newer-Technology. Woo hoo, speed here I come...

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- Eric
- Eric
     
The Wolfe
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Aug 27, 2000, 04:06 AM
 
The 9600 machines with the Mach5 (350MHz 604e) CPU's did not have 100MHz buses. The Mach5 604e's allowed for higher processor speeds because the processor could run at higher multiples of the buses speed. Thus a 350MHz 604e ran at a 7:1 ratio with the bus.

The first Mac to have a 100MHz system bus was the Blue/White G3 that came out in Jan 1999.


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Eliott Wolfe
Winnetka, Calif
     
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Aug 29, 2000, 07:30 AM
 
The last 8600/9600 systems did have a 66Mhz bus which makes them a good upgrade choice versus the older models which had a 50Mhz bus.

drewman
     
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Aug 29, 2000, 08:38 AM
 
But the point is you can probably find a cheap G3 Beige or something for less than a 9600. If you do it will have advantages like cheaper ZIFF upgrades, maybe a cheaper but ok IDE/ATA interface and cheaper SD-RAM upgrade options. The 6 slot 9600 series is appealling and nice but I reckon maybe a cheap beige G3 if found would be a slightly better deal.
Pete C. (PB12" 1.5Ghz 160GB hdd, 1.25GB RAM, OS X 10.4.11)
     
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Sep 7, 2000, 11:10 AM
 
Wolfe...
I have an 8500,never had a 9600, just know what AppleSpec says.. http://www.info.apple.com/info.apple...ec.taf?RID=265
If you get an odd Mac(this link is supposed to go to 9600/300 but I got an LC550 just now when i clikked the link), try "refresh"

[This message has been edited by zac4mac (edited 09-07-2000).]
     
The Wolfe
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Sep 7, 2000, 05:05 PM
 
I am sorry, but both of you are wrong. The PowerMac 8600 and 9600 (all models, including the 300 and 350MHz models) came with 50MHz bus speeds. The desktop and minitower beige G3's released Nov. of '97 were the first Mac's made by Apple that ran at a 66MHz bus speed.

If you remember back three or four years, the big complaint many Mac users had with Apple was the relatively slow bus speed of it's computers compared to Intel PC's that had 66MHz buses and Mac clones that had higher bus speeds on modified Apple logic boards. I wasn't one of the people complaining, but alas this fact is true.

Also, have you taken a look at the logic board in your 8600 or a 9600? It is a relatively huge board design. By comparison, the Gossamer logic board that shipped with the original G3's was a very small design, which was about 2/3 the size of a 7600 logic board - making it easier to increase the bus clock rate overall.

The 100MHz bus speed the Apple Spec is referring to is actually the frontside cache bus between the processor and the L2 cache. Compare this to current G3 and G4 chips that have backside cache's that run at half the processor speed (usually).

Dig out your old Macworlds and MacWeeks - look up the specs!


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Eliott Wolfe
Winnetka, Calif

[This message has been edited by The Wolfe (edited 09-07-2000).]
     
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Sep 8, 2000, 09:16 AM
 
Wolfe... seems to be an issue here. A guy on Dan Knight's PowerMacs list who purports to be an ex-Apple(corporate, not retail)tech and always has spot-on info replied to my query with the following... still trying to get at an 8600/300 I know of, to see for myself...

"Zack,

All the 8600's except for the 8600/200 were 64-bit/100mhz. The 8600/200
is only 64-bit/50mhz.
the 9600/200, 200MP(multiprocessor) and 233 were 64-bit/50 mhz.
the 9600/300 and 350 were 64-bit/100mhz.

It's kind of confusing but tht is the way it goes. They ran a 100 mhz.
bus but the data path was just 64-bit. As opposed to my new G4/500 that
runs at 500mhz. with a 100 mhz bus and a 128 bit path. The times they are
a changin'!

--Kyle H."

     
The Wolfe
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Sep 8, 2000, 04:44 PM
 
You've got two different bus types mixed up. There is a big difference between a system bus and a frontside (or dedicated) cache bus. The 8600 and 9600 computers that had the Mach 5 604e CPU's had 100MHz frontside buses and 50Mhz system busses.

The frontside bus connects the processor to the Level 2 cache via a dedicated path that runs twice as fast as the system bus. This 100MHz speed is only used to communicate between the cache and the processor. A frontside bus increases the performance of a system because it can alleviate the congestion cache data can cause when it has to be communicated over the main bus. Also, by doubling the clock speed of the backside bus, you gain obvious speed improvements.

The system bus is something very different. It communicates between the processor and every other component (other than the cache) on the logic board. This is the bus that communicates with the main memory, the disk drives, the PCI slots (via the 33MHz PCI specification), sound, I/O ports, etc. The performance of this bus makes a much bigger deal than the frontside bus because this bus is the transportation system that carries most everything everywhere.

I'm sure Apple tried to market the latter 8600/9600's as having 100MHz busses, although this would have been a form of trickery, as the system bus that communicates with everything still runs at 50MHz. The original 8600/9600's 604e's did not have a frontside bus ability, so they communicated with their cache over the system bus (50MHz).


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Eliott Wolfe
Winnetka, Calif
     
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Sep 9, 2000, 01:01 PM
 
Wolfe, thanks
That's why I come here... to learn something. Still want to play with a Mach 5 Mac someday, but they have lost the appeal they had for me with this insight. I will probably retire my 8500 to a Linux box soon in favor of a new G4MP anyway, so for me the point is moot.
     
The Wolfe
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Sep 9, 2000, 05:42 PM
 
The Mach 5 9600's were indeed very powerful machines. They were only in the spotlight for a few months during the Fall of '97, so they're not many units out there. I'd love to have one decked out with quad UW/SCSI drives and loads of memory for use as a MkLinux server. For three year old computers, they are still extremely fast and capable machines.

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Eliott Wolfe
Winnetka, Calif
     
   
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