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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Classic Macs and Mac OS > all-in-1 upgrade

all-in-1 upgrade
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
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Jan 11, 2001, 09:26 AM
 
I just returned from Spain and a friend there has an all in 1 system he would like to stick an upgrade card in. Unfortunately, I don't remember which one he has - maybe a 5290 - does that sound right? Anyway, it's a PowerPC from that era.
Anyone know if those were upgradeable?
Thanks,
R
     
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Jan 19, 2001, 04:16 PM
 
go to www.apple-history.com and look for the model. They give you all the information you want and a lot that you don't.
iBook G4-1.33/768 || B&W G3-450/640 || Beige G3-G4 450/352 || Beige G3-400/256 in Classic case || Beige G3-300/256 || PB 5300cs Pictureframe 100/24
     
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Feb 7, 2001, 09:00 PM
 
if he realy wants to keep an all in one (not a bright Idea) he will need to have a 5400 or better those are the only ones that alow G3 upgrades.
     
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Feb 9, 2001, 10:46 AM
 
I think he should spend a bit more money and go get an iMac.

5XXX machines are some of apple's worst. I've had nothing but problems with them.

Those upgrade cards aren't cheap. Plus an upgraded mac probably won't run OS X when it comes out.

In the long run, a new iMac would be better, because in addition to the faster processor, you'd get a new, large hard drive, and an acceptable amount of RAM.
     
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Feb 25, 2001, 11:38 AM
 
I bought a 5500/225 in late 1997, and ditched it for my iMac DV/SE two years later. But it was a great computer, and I never had a problem with it. Plus, the IrDA port and TV tuner were very useful. And though I think Eskape Labs makes some similar product for the iMac, it wouldn't be internal nor would it come with a remote control. As for upgrades, both Sonnet and the late Newer Technology have made G3 upgrade cards for the 55xx series, even though they were always considered dead-end machines.
     
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Feb 25, 2001, 11:41 AM
 
I have to agree, however, that an iMac would offer more value than spending $400 (I could easily be wrong about the price) on an upgrade card. When you add RAM and a new hard disk and the upgrade card, it'll cost more than buying the newest $899 Indigo iMac. Plus, wasn't the Apple Store offering Spanish keyboards and OS sets for the iMac? Or was that the Cube?
     
Tim Michael [finboy]
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Feb 27, 2001, 12:25 PM
 
The 52xx-62xx machines are fundamentally different in quality and design than the 5400 and 5500 machines. Though they look similar, the motherboard design is completely different. There are no G3 upgrades for the 52xx machines, but Sonnet still makes one for the 5400-5500 and 6400-6500.

The earlier machines are wonderful in the aspect that they take ANY 72-pin ram you put in them (not matched pairs) and they use IDE hard drives. Otherwise, they are dog machines.
     
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Mar 6, 2001, 01:25 AM
 
I just remembered, too, that the 5200-6200 machines are the only native powerpc machines that can use the full Apple video system, including the MPEG card. I haven't tried it yet, but I think you can use that to crunch your own MPEGs via hardware, which would be a distinct advantage.

I have all the stuff, just no time to play with it.

There are restrictions on the type of IDE drives you can use in these machines as well, but most of the newer drives should be backward compatible. Search at Apple's TIL if interested.
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Mar 7, 2001, 12:23 PM
 
I'm pretty sure you can swap the 5200 motherboard with that of a 5400. Then use an L2 upgrade card (sonnet,newer, metabox) and voila! G3 all-in-one.
     
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Mar 7, 2001, 11:42 PM
 
g3 all in one? sounds an awful lot like an imac.

the new imacs have cdrw drives. yet another reason to just get an imac.

5200s have awful and slow cdrom drives. half of the machines at work are 5xxx series and i hate them..really really hate them
     
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Mar 8, 2001, 10:14 AM
 
Well, it boils down to economy. Even the cheapest, oldest imac will run you $500. You can get a 5400 motherboard for $50 or less and a metabox L2 upgrade for only $150. Yeah, it is like an iMac, but for just $200. It depentds what you wan to do with it...
     
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Mar 8, 2001, 10:36 AM
 
RAM from a 5200 won't work in a 5400, so its more than a 200 dollar upgrade.

Most 5200s had 500 meg hard drives, which would need to be upgraded to do anything useful with the computer.

At this point you don't have USB or firewire either, and no way to add them.

Its not as economical as it first looks.
     
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Mar 8, 2001, 12:00 PM
 
Sure, the 52xx takes 72-pin and the 54xx 168-pin, but you and still get a DIMM or two for $50 or less. I know what you're saying about the iMac, but part of the beauty of the older macs in their resilience and ability to last. If you have a working machine upgrade it and find a use for it (SETI, web server, a grandparent or a child). You won't be able to accomplish 3D rendering, but you'll still have a peppy machine for $250.

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Mar 8, 2001, 02:20 PM
 
I don't think the 5400 motherboard will go in the 5200 -- I think the power supplies are different. I am unwilling to check this myself.

The fact that 5200s use IDE drives is quite attractive, but the RAM capacity is 64M.

My 5400/200 all-in-one takes EIDE drives, uses expensive DIMMs (with a max of 136M) and has a PCI slot if I want to add a USB/Firewire card. With OS 8.6, just about any card will do. I put a 30G Western Digital 5400 RPM drive in it last night, and installed the TV card and the Video-in card, and now it's a remote control VCD player (with Apple Video Player) or TV. I'll use the big, cheap drive to back up my other machines at night, via the comm-slot II ethernet card, which the 5400 treats as part of the PCI (wicked fast) bus.

Here's why my 5400 is better than my iMac: 2 serial ports, 1 adb port, video in, a TV tuner, remote, a 30G HD, SCSI onboard, and an open PCI slot (which will probably be used for Firewire). It doesn't have a G3 (yet) and it doesn't have a graphics accelerator, but otherwise it rocks.

As for the CDROMs in the 52xx machines, it's a standard SCSI, so it's upgradeable if it's too slow.
He can be fixed -- you can't.
     
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Mar 8, 2001, 02:28 PM
 
Finboy, I use an upgraded 5400 upgraded to a g3 w 400mhz, 108MB RAM with the TV/VIdeo card, etc. It rocks, but my only complaint is the 1.2GB HD-I'm constantly installing and then erasing programs as I need them. You said that you just sank a 30GB HD into it. A few questions: A)How much did it cost? B) How hard was it to do? C)Are there any potential downsides? D) Can you recommend a brand/place to get one?

Thanks!
     
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Mar 8, 2001, 08:53 PM
 
T:
I came back to post this as a separate thread, so folks would know about it, and I saw your response.

This HD went into a Power Macintosh 5400 200Mhz, which is the same as a Performa 5400 200Mhz.

I put a Western Digital ATA/100 EIDE 30G drive in last night. It is a 5400 RPM model, in the Caviar series I think. There is some vibration, but it doesn't seem to be a problem -- I'm sure I could shim some stuff around the drive if I need to dampen it. The drive that was in it was a 1.6 Caviar, so the sled went on fine.

I left the jumpers set to the default position, which is horizontal on pins 6 and 4, the documentation describes this as neutral. You could just as easily leave the jumper off. It will NOT work if you install the jumper for Master.

This drive cost $99 at Office Depot.

Before I bought it, I went to WD's web site and checked out their EIDE specs and standard. The box has the MacOS symbol on it, oddly enough. Anyway, this drive is 5400 RPM, but otherwise it has the same usage specs as their 7200 RPM drives, which seem to be the new line that is coming out in stores.

After I powered down and changed from Master to neutral, I booted from CD and Finder found the drive and asked if I wanted to initialize. I clicked on "eject" and then started up Drive Setup from the CD. I used the version of drive setup which came with OS 8.6 retail.

I also put a 20G Maxtor EIDE Diamond Series in a MacAlly USB external case about a month ago, and it formatted as an HFS+ drive and it works great. The specs on that case don't include any recent drives at all.

I'm going to set up one partition for backing up other drives over the ethernet. The throughput with a comm slot II ethernet card is amazing.

[This message has been edited by finboy (edited 03-08-2001).]
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Mar 12, 2001, 12:24 PM
 
Finboy,

I appreciated your answer, and am on the precipice of copying your HD upgrade for my 5400/120. A few clarifying questions befroe I plunge:

A. Is there a significant comparative advantage between 5400 and 7200 speed drives for this kind of use?
B. How much of the all-in-one case did you need to dissebmle for this?
C. Am I understanding you right in that you have to do a total re-install?
D. Is there anything els I should know?

Much appreciated.

------------------
PM 5400/G3 400
Performa 6116CD
     
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Mar 12, 2001, 12:29 PM
 
One more thing...is this an interal or external drive? In my mind, I've been seeing this as an internal.

------------------
PM 5400/G3 400
Performa 6116CD
     
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Mar 12, 2001, 12:33 PM
 
And if it is external, are there options for me to upgrade internally? I don't really want to go external...I have enough devices cluttering my desk as it is--I got the All-in-one to avoid this sort of thing.

------------------
PM 5400/G3 400
Performa 6116CD
     
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Mar 12, 2001, 01:28 PM
 
I just opened the back (three screws) and the HD is right there underneath. The 5400 will support a SCSI external drive (but I don't know if it will boot from it) but they're very expensive. I disconnected the data cable and the power cable, pushed the little tab on the sled, and pulled the old drive out. The new drive fit the sled perfectly. I slid it back in, plugged the cables in, and closed up the back of the machine.

I chose to totally reinstall the OS (one could just restore your old system folder, alternatively). I made a full backup of everything on the old drive with Retrospect 4.1 and a tape drive, pulled the old drive, put in the new drive, reinstalled OS 8.6 from CD, and then restored my backup.

Everything's running great. No vibration problems either. And no appreciable heat difference.
He can be fixed -- you can't.
     
   
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