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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Classic Macs and Mac OS > 7100 'Impossible' problem

7100 'Impossible' problem
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Nov 28, 2001, 02:41 AM
 
I Have a 7100 I just got today, that I'm trying to turn into a router for somebody. It had 8.5 on there, but it wasn't a fresh install. It had the previous owners junk all over it. So I booted my OS8 CD, formatted the HD, and went to install OS8. To make a long story short(er), the CD freezes at different times, every time during the installation. There are some small scratches in teh CD, but nothing that looks like it would effect the CD. I then tried booting off my OS9 CD. It won't, at ll, no messages or anything, just a blinking ? So I copied the minimal System folder thats on the OS8 CD, and put it on the HD, then booted. Then the OS8 installer froze again. I tried the OS9 CD and it said for this type of computer, you have to boot off the OS9 CD (which doesn't work). I then copied the OS9 system folder to the 7100, but it won't boot at all! All of these CD's have booted beige macs (a 7500) before, and I've done a TON of installs off all of them. Any ideas? By teh way I do have an 8.1/8.5/8.6 CD, but it only had upgrades on it, its not bootable.
     
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Nov 28, 2001, 04:10 AM
 
Try booting off the 8.5 CD with extensions off.
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 28, 2001, 08:57 AM
 
Originally posted by kbbaucom:
<STRONG>Try booting off the 8.5 CD with extensions off.</STRONG>
Argh!! Read before you post!
     
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Nov 28, 2001, 10:47 AM
 
Perhaps you should check to see if your hard drive is using Apple drivers. The easiest way to do this is to open Drive Setup, select the drive, and choose "Update Driver" from the Functions menu.
     
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Nov 28, 2001, 11:38 AM
 
First, the 7100 is a different animal than any later models. The 6100/7100/8100 were still nubus-based macs that didn't use PCI slots. They used PPC601 processors up to about 110 mHz.

These machines are becoming less supported by any software/OS. They came with 7.1.2 (a PPC special version of the OS of the time). Often the machines of that era required a 'special' enabler to boot. Newer releases incorporated the necessary code into the System files and you should not need these to boot system 8 or 8.1. It sounds like you *may* have a SCSI termination issue with this machine OR the CD-ROM drive is old enough that is doesn't handle booting from CD-R media. Are you booting from standard released system 8 or 8.1 disks from Apple? If not this may be your problem, try booting with the system 8-8.6 disk that you have that is Apple issued.

You can get 8.51 installed for sure (I've done it), and I believe 8.6 should work. But if its just going to be a router there are a few concerns. RAM, L2cache and the ethernet speed.

RAM, the machines were originally spec'd as max of 72MB, with higher density 72 pin SIMMs you should be able to go higher than this. At a miminum I recommend using 72MB on these machines. MacOS8.5 or 8.6 needs 32MB to run well at all, 72MB will give you some breathing room. RAM costs are so low, I expect you could get two 32MB SIMMs for less than $40. While these machines can use FastPageMode (FPM) and EDO RAM, it cannot use the special features of EDO.

An L2 cache as 1MB size is exceptionally good, and increases performance tremendously. At *least* get a 512MB card. You should be able to get these for less than $50

If this machine is a router, and it only for routing to access internet sites (not other machines on the network) then the 10-baseT speed of ethernet shouldn't be a problem. But if you want to use this as the router for internal machines on a home network, then the machines will be limited to 10BaseT for all machines on the network, whether they or the hub you use is capable of 100BaseT.

I recently saw this with a file server I was running on a 7600 for my home network. I realized the filetransfers were not as fast as I was expecting, and a moment of "Ah Ha!" came when I remembered the built-in ethernet is 10BaseT. Since then I've put in a 3rd party 10/100BaseT card and the transfers are great.

If the inter-computer transfer speeds concern you, make sure all components are capable of the highest speed you want -- 10BaseT or 100BaseT.

Good luck.
     
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Nov 28, 2001, 11:38 AM
 
Originally posted by l008com:
<STRONG>

Argh!! Read before you post!</STRONG>
Geez! Sorry...try booting with the OS8 CD with extensions off. I really did read the whole post. I just accidentally said 8.5 instead of 8. It might not freeze during the installation if you start up without extentions.
     
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Nov 28, 2001, 11:45 AM
 
Originally posted by bluedog:
<STRONG>At a miminum I recommend using 72MB on these machines. MacOS8.5 or 8.6 needs 32MB to run well at all, 72MB will give you some breathing room. RAM costs are so low, I expect you could get two 32MB SIMMs for less than $40. While these machines can use FastPageMode (FPM) and EDO RAM, it cannot use the special features of EDO.

An L2 cache as 1MB size is exceptionally good, and increases performance tremendously. At *least* get a 512MB card. You should be able to get these for less than $50</STRONG>
That's way overkill for a router. I ran a 6100/60 (slower processor) with 16MB of RAM, and 0 KB of L2 cache as a router for 2 years, and it didn't slow down the connection at all. It added 1ms to my pings to external sites, and I could still download and upload at max bandwidth (ran a very popular server, and outgoing bandwidth was always at peak). The only reason it would need more RAM and cache is if it is going to be a proxy server as well.
     
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Nov 28, 2001, 07:04 PM
 
I agree, that is definatly way over kill, but i don't really need info on routers, i know all about them, i need info on getting this computer to work. I plan on going all the way (9.04) with it. All i'm goona run is personal web sharing and IPNR. The 8.0 CD, the one that freezes is original. As for starting with extensions off, it is a very base system to begin with, the only extensions it has are ethernet for various machine, and Quicktime, and some other networking related ones. The HD and CD rom are both original equipment. I've never heard of CD ROM drives being too old to boot from a CDR, i thought if you burned it right (as HFS) it would boot, and the drive for computer wouldn't be able to tell the difference. If that is not the case can someone please verify that for me? I also tried a System 7.5 Network Access Floppy, which is supposed to boot nearly any beige Mac, and had booted many many Macs for me, but it wouldn't boot this one.

I don't mean to be rude, but please no more Router-How-To. I know what I'm doing with that, I just need help with this trouble maker of a Mac.
     
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Nov 28, 2001, 08:56 PM
 
the 8.1 CD booted and installed on all the 6100, 7100 and 7200 models in my office, unlike the system 8.0 disc - get yourself one of these...
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 28, 2001, 08:58 PM
 
Well I don't have one. Does anyone here have one they wanna let me download, or should I just revert to hotline?
     
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Nov 29, 2001, 12:01 PM
 
Two things-

1) If you have another Mac w/ SCSI available, how about putting the drive from the 7100 into it, installing a universal system, and putting it back in the 7100.

2) I have a 8.6 CD that I just installed on a 6100. I would be glad to let you download an image.

Paco

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Paco500 ]
     
l008com  (op)
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Nov 29, 2001, 02:28 PM
 
Hey paco sounds good can i downlaod that 8.6 image? Adn unforutnatly, the only other macs i are 68K's and a G4.
     
   
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