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cdhostage · Oct 8, 2002, 06:35 PM

On www.theregus.com I just read about an external 250 GB Firewire HD.

Just wondering - how much data can fit into a single hard drive that fits into the standard drive spaces on the PowerMac?

Cipher13 · Oct 8, 2002, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by cdhostage:
On www.theregus.com I just read about an external 250 GB Firewire HD.

Just wondering - how much data can fit into a single hard drive that fits into the standard drive spaces on the PowerMac?

At the moment? ~300 gigs.

That will change as technology improves. There's no limit, no matter what "experts" say... there'll always be a way around any problems with stuffing more data into the same space.

G4ME · Oct 8, 2002, 08:24 PM

whats the speed and how many platers?

SkiBikeSki · Oct 8, 2002, 09:30 PM

I thought that Western Digital had the largest HD with 200GB. I also thought that ATA100 couldn't handle drives larger that 137GB, and that ATA133 was created to go as high as 144PB(144,000,000GB). But apparently these drives are ATA100, so that makes no sense.

It'd be nice if someone knowledgeable could lay down the facts for us.

businezguy · Oct 9, 2002, 04:27 PM

ATA 100 can only read up to 137 gigs, that is correct. With the Mac, the limit is actually 120 gigs for some reason. However, according to mac technical support, I SHOULD be able to put in a larger drive and just partition it as many times as is neccessary.

reader50 · 05:28 PM

When the ATA-100 spec was written, the addressing limit per drive was 2^37 bytes. That would be 128 GB in normal computer terms. However, the HD manufactures like to use "decimal bytes" where 1KB = 1000 bytes instead of 1024 bytes. 1MB (decimal) = 1,000,000 bytes instead of 1,048,576 bytes. This is why a new 100 GB drive formats to a little over 93 real GB. In other words, they can sell you a 93 GB drive, and legally call it 100 GB, by using "decimal gigabytes".

128 real GB = 137 decimal GB.

When Maxtor wrote the ATA-133 standard, they increased the addressing limit. The ATA-100 standard has since been extended to allow longer addressing, if your ATA controller supports the updated standard.

As for regular ATA-100 addressing a drive larger than 128/137 GB by using partitions, I've yet to dig up a clear answer for that. I *think* the limit is in the bus interface protocols, if so, it specifies the maximum device size -- the physical HD. Multiple partitions count as multiple volumes, but are still one device. I would guess that partitioning will not work around the limit, but it would be nice if one of the HD manufacturers would clearly state "yes" or "no" on this.

saru boy · Oct 9, 2002, 11:37 PM

You can partition a large drive so that each partition is 120GB or less. ATA100 can support drives larger than 128GB, but the firmware of the ATA100 controller will have to be upgraded to handle the larger drives.

vasu · Oct 10, 2002, 12:06 PM

The latest Powrmacs (MDD) have updated ATA-100 controllers that support the larger drives. I remember reading that someone put 180gb drive in their machine and it worked fine.

And based on whatever bit addressing the controller uses, it should be able to handle those new Maxtor 320Gb drives.

-vasu

duboy · Oct 10, 2002, 03:30 PM

Hey all, i just purchased and installed the Western Digital 180Gig Special Edition in my dual 1gig quicksilver. And yes, it sees the entire drive. but i was under the impression that the quicksilvers were still ata/66....is this true? or do i actually have ata/100?

businezguy · Oct 10, 2002, 04:20 PM

Duboy,

You mean it sees the whole drive without partitioning it, or did you have to partition it out?

The new powermacs (I have one myself) have a ATA 100 and ATA 66 controller. I wonder if the ATA 66 will see the whole hard drive if it is partitioned out also.

duboy · Oct 10, 2002, 08:56 PM

businezguy,

i just formatted it. i didn't partition it into seperate chunks. or i guess i kinda did partition it...into one volume though. does that make sense?

nana4 · Oct 10, 2002, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by saru boy:
You can partition a large drive so that each partition is 120GB or less. ATA100 can support drives larger than 128GB, but the firmware of the ATA100 controller will have to be upgraded to handle the larger drives.

If the controller cannot see >128GB then it won't see it, no matter how you partition it.

saru boy · Oct 11, 2002, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by nana4:

If the controller cannot see >128GB then it won't see it, no matter how you partition it.

Hmmm, that makes sense. Partitioning will probably get around any OS limitions on drive size, but if the controller can't access anything higher than 137GB, I guess there's no way for the OS to access it either.

Although I wonder why some folks were able to see 180GB on their QS even though it only has a ATA-66 bus...

tullamore · Dec 27, 2002, 03:13 AM

I just bought a 180GB drive, not knowing about this problem. Did anyone find a solution? I had heard that firewire wouldn't have the same problem, so I put it in a firewire case, but it couldn't read anymore than the 127GB. (Gigabit Ethernet and Digital Audio G4s)

Scotttheking · Dec 27, 2002, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by tullamore:
I just bought a 180GB drive, not knowing about this problem. Did anyone find a solution? I had heard that firewire wouldn't have the same problem, so I put it in a firewire case, but it couldn't read anymore than the 127GB. (Gigabit Ethernet and Digital Audio G4s)

Get an ATA133 PCI card and hook the HD up to that.

Sven G · Dec 27, 2002, 03:58 AM

... FYI, the biggest external (FireWire) hard disk on the market is probably the LaCie Big Disk, of the new d2 series, with 500 GB (!) of storage space:

tooki · Dec 28, 2002, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by tullamore:
I just bought a 180GB drive, not knowing about this problem. Did anyone find a solution? I had heard that firewire wouldn't have the same problem, so I put it in a firewire case, but it couldn't read anymore than the 127GB. (Gigabit Ethernet and Digital Audio G4s)

That means that the FireWire bridge in that particular case doesn't support 48-bit LBA.

It's not a limitation of your computer, of FireWire, or of the operating system you're running. An improved FireWire case will see the whole drive.

tooki

tullamore · Jan 5, 2003, 03:52 PM

It's not a limitation of your computer, of FireWire, or of the operating system you're running. An improved FireWire case will see the whole drive.

tooki [/B]

Thanks

CheesePuff · Jan 5, 2003, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by Sven G:
... FYI, the biggest external (FireWire) hard disk on the market is probably the LaCie Big Disk, of the new d2 series, with 500 GB (!) of storage space:

But its two 250 GB hard drives on a RAID.

tullamore · Jan 5, 2003, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by CheesePuff:
But its two 250 GB hard drives on a RAID.

Where does it say that? It looks way to small to have two 250 drives in it.

CheesePuff · Jan 5, 2003, 11:14 PM

Because no such thing as a 500 GB HD as of yet. And I swore I read it on the MacCentral PR they posted.

Sven G · Jan 6, 2003, 05:22 AM

You are right: it indeed seems to be a 2x250 GB RAID. Anyway, the d2 series looks rather cool...

Xaositect · Jan 6, 2003, 12:01 PM

A bit more on why some machines with ATA-66 and ATA-100 controllers can or can't see drives over 137GB...

The LBA spec is seperate from the speed spec. If you implement 48-bit LBA (Logical Block Addressing), you can see the drives at full size. Theoretically, you can have an ATA-33 controller with 48-bit LBA using >137GB drives, but the controllers made which support variable bit LBA have been since the introduction of ATA-100, so few ATA-33 controllers will have such a feature. Most are ATA-100 or 133.

The G4 Quicksilver '02 models can support 48-bit LBA if the firmware is updated and OS 10.2.1 or 9.2.2 from a G4 MDD model is in use. Some earlier Quicksilvers can support it, but not all. G4 MDD models support 48-bit LBA on the primary and secondary IDE controllers, but I can't find it listed in the teritary IDE (ATA-33) spec listing, so it probably doesn't support variable bit LBA. Of course it could support it but just not have it listed, or some chip suppliers can and others can't, so YMMV.

:XI: · Jan 18, 2003, 10:32 AM

How would i know if my QS2002 has the right firmware? which versions support >137gig and which don't?

any ideas?

cdhostage · Jan 18, 2003, 07:39 PM

I missed that Big Disk was RAID in a Box

entirely. Or is that a product name of another product

Anyway, that makes sense - better to have multiple small platters than a stack of big, wide ones. If dropped on anything other than its largest faces, the forces at the edges of a large platter would probably break them.

Still 500 freakin gigabytes! Jeezus nipples!!