[dazzla]

The thread seen a million times over all over the net.


I'm gonna pop into John Lewis on Saturday to see if they're still selling the Dual 867 so for this purpose I'm presuming they're still available...


Dual 867 - £1350
1 Ghz - £1150

I'll be getting the 17" for £550 (the 20" is just out of my reach), any problems with that choice that I should know of? I've heard complaints about fuzzy fonts

Used for bit of Photoshop, Dreamweaver, mail, web, tiny bit of gaming (AOE2).

Will the Dual CPU's make much of a difference?

Both machines will be bumped up to 1.2gb ram. Noise is quite an issue. I've heard the new pmacs deal with this problem but never experiencing a pmac first hand, I don't know how severe the sound problem is on the old pmacs.

[superfula]

Let's chant with me... dual 1.25....dual 1.25. Can you hear it yet? dual 1.25....dual 1.25. It's getting louder...

You already know where I stand...so I'll stop there.

[clarkgoble]

I think the duals give you much better responsiveness. They simply multitask better. While most applications aren't multithreaded, the way Unix works means that if you run multiple programs, you'll still get an advantage. This is very noticable while playing videos and so forth. For regular use I'd take the dual 867 over the 1 GHz model every time. Remember that at best that is going to be less than a 10% speed different for comparing just the CPUs. (Well perhaps a little more since SMP will flood the bandwidth given Motorola's lackluster design)

[Commodus]

Get the single 1 GHz model if you're at all concerned about noise - if it turns out that you think the dual-867 system is too loud, it's doubtful that Apple will be able/willing to do much about it.

You'll also get the benefit of at least a 64 MB GeForce 4 MX video card (the dual-867 comes with a 32 MB model), the addition of a slot for 802.11g wireless, and so on. There's also the possibility of rolling the 200-pound savings into upgrades like a Superdrive, a larger hard drive, a Radeon 9000 Pro instead of the nVidia card, or whatever else strikes your fancy.

You could even do something as crazy as to spend the money on non-computer items.

[dazzla]

Originally posted by Commodus:
Get the single 1 GHz model if you're at all concerned about noise - if it turns out that you think the dual-867 system is too loud, it's doubtful that Apple will be able/willing to do much about it.

You'll also get the benefit of at least a 64 MB GeForce 4 MX video card (the dual-867 comes with a 32 MB model), the addition of a slot for 802.11g wireless, and so on. There's also the possibility of rolling the 200-pound savings into upgrades like a Superdrive, a larger hard drive, a Radeon 9000 Pro instead of the nVidia card, or whatever else strikes your fancy.

You could even do something as crazy as to spend the money on non-computer items.

That's what I was thinking. I'm not sure how well I'll be able to judge sound levels in a store and I'd much rather have the 9000 Pro then the GF4mx.

[Angus_D]

Well, I have a DP 1GHz MDD 2002 and I'm not going to buy a single processor Mac again if I can avoid it

[dazzla]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
Well, I have a DP 1GHz MDD 2002 and I'm not going to buy a single processor Mac again if I can avoid it

You're just adding to the confusion

[solitere]

Originally posted by dazzla:


1- I'll be getting the 17" for £550 (the 20" is just out of my reach), any problems with that choice that I should know of? I've heard complaints about fuzzy fonts

2- Used for bit of Photoshop, Dreamweaver, mail, web, tiny bit of gaming (AOE2).

3- Will the Dual CPU's make much of a difference?

4- Both machines will be bumped up to 1.2gb ram. Noise is quite an issue. I've heard the new pmacs deal with this problem but never experiencing a pmac first hand, I don't know how severe the sound problem is on the old pmacs.

1. There are other great monitors you could look at to name a few good ones: Formac 17" model and ViewSonics VG/VX 800 18" models. Both uses Fuijitsu MVA lcd technology and have great colors and viewing angle. And are better priced than the Apple displays.

2-3. If you want to do more things at the same time and lesser interupts a Dual CPU is always better, especially with OS X. If you going to use mainly OS 9, a single CPU machine is better

4. The MDD dual machines are noisy for a home office but in a office enviroment you will propably not react to the loud noise.

Unconfirmed reports suggest that Apple has done something to soften the noise of the new batch of MDD machines but until anyone actually hears one, no one can confirm this.

[iChristopher]

The 867 DP's I saw today at Small Dog and elsewhere had been dropped by $200, FWIW.

Originally posted by Commodus:
Get the single 1 GHz model if you're at all concerned about noise - if it turns out that you think the dual-867 system is too loud, it's doubtful that Apple will be able/willing to do much about it.

You'll also get the benefit of at least a 64 MB GeForce 4 MX video card (the dual-867 comes with a 32 MB model), the addition of a slot for 802.11g wireless, and so on. There's also the possibility of rolling the 200-pound savings into upgrades like a Superdrive, a larger hard drive, a Radeon 9000 Pro instead of the nVidia card, or whatever else strikes your fancy.

You could even do something as crazy as to spend the money on non-computer items.

[raferx]

Get a dual or you'll kick yourself... and why LCD??? For the money you're paying you could get a killer 21" CRT, with some REAL resolution. I love the Apple flat panel, but that widescreen res on the new 20" just doesn't cut it for me, and the 17" only goes 1280x1024. LCD needs a lot of work still IMHO.

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Get the dual, you know, because it's one more.[/SPINAL TAP]

[Superchicken]

GO DUAL!
Seriously Dual = Better hands down. You won't get some stuff done 10% faster but you'll be able to do 90% more at the same time. Unless you really wanna say you have a 1Ghz then go for the Dual 867 it's a better buy.

[Skypat]

I have a dual 867 (bought it last October) and I am very pleased with it. I would like to buy Apple 17 LCD as well. Apple has very competitive price now.

If you plan to work on your computer all day long at home, be careful about the noise issue. Even if you don't find it ennoying when you listen to it at the computer store, believe me it will sound different in your room.

Maybe the new towers are less noisy.

I must admit I got used to the noise and now it does not bother me anymore.

The dual 867 is pretty fast. My dad who wanted to buy a tower a few months ago compared the speed of my dual 867 with a dual 1 and a dual 1,25 Ghz by applying a same filtre on the same image. The dual 1,25 Ghz was just 10 seconds faster than mine - as far as I remember. So the dual 867 is defenetely a good choice.

But if you are "noise sensitive", choose the upcoming iMac or maybe the 1ghz tower. I think I would by the 1ghz if I needed a new Mac now.

I hope my next purchase will be a flat pannel and later this year an iBook

[Phil Quinney]

I would have to agree with everyone else. I bought a MDD 867 last year and think it is great. I moved from a Sawtooth 400 to this machine and it is stunning. I've used other single processor machines: the original Quicksilver 733 and Single Processor 1GHz machines and the dual wins hands down.

I would vote for it any day.

As for the monitor: I am still unhappy about the way you get dead pixels. If I buy a monitor it should be perfect, not within apple's quality control margins. I would go for a bigger, higher resolution CRT display.

Just my opinion,

Phil.

[OreoCookie]

Go dual. Grrrr.....

[docholiday]

Unless you are doing loads of video-editing or photoshop work, don't go with the dual.

The OS might seem a bit more responsive and multitasking can be done better, but the 1Ghz has several advantages:

1) It is A LOT quieter than the dual. Do you remember all the fuss that people made about the 1st Rev MDD noise??
2) It Bluetooth and Airport Extreme Ready, two technologies that will increase the lifetime of your machine.
3) 64MB Graphics Card. That is a lot more useful for gaming than a dual processor system.
4) Firewire 2. You may not need it now, but in a few months this little port will seem like a godsend.

If you however, don't care about any of the points mentioned then go with the older MDD 867.

[legacyb4]

A buddy of mine just picked up his very first tower (he's been a laptop user for years) and his first taste of OS X this past weekend.

Due to budget reasons, he opted for the new 1GHz and I helped his set it up. Without question, the new machines are much quieter than the last MD models (I use a dual 867 at work and the think is bloody noisy).

In his home office, you barely hear the machine except for the light drive noise and quiet purr of the fan(s) which is not intrusive to a normal working environment. Possibly not as quiet as an iMac could get, but getting close. The new heat sink probably helps out a bunch as it is much closer to a car's radiator fins than the standard blocky aluminum fins though it does make getting fingers into the #1 and #2 RAM slots a bit tight.

If the new duals are as quiet, I'd be sorely tempted to look at the 1.25 units...

Cheers.

Originally posted by Skypat:

Maybe the new towers are less noisy.

[Sarc]

I own a 733 QuickSilver.
Sometimes I work for small comanies gettin servers up and running.
Some time ago I set up a QuickTime Streaming Server on a Dual 500 MHz. And was amazed on how powerful the Dual machine was.
You could multitask much better, thing wich is IMHO one of OS X's strengths, and does help a lot in many apps.

As for the upgrades, you can get them later. I have upgaded my QS's HDD's, RAM, and now I'm going for the Radeon8500 (better than the 9000 btw, for less than 55 USD).

just my 2 cents

[asmack]

I'm thinking of upgrading from a 266 MHz beige G3 running OS9 to the new, SP 1 GHz PowerMac G4 running OSX. Will I experience a huge difference in performance?

Basically, I would have been happy with a headless (ie., monitorless) 800 MHz iMac, because I don't like the iMac's LCD and I already have a perfectly good 19" monitor. (I don't dislike all LCDs, just the ones on the iMacs. They're not as good as the Cinema Displays, which I'd buy in a sec if I had the cash. The viewing angle and contrast ratio of the iMac LCDs just don't cut it for me yet.) I also would have been happy with an eMac, but there have been too many reported problems with the display.

I spend 90% of my time surfing and emailing, with the remaining 10% spent doing digital photography, light HTML work, ripping/burning CDs and watching DVDs. I don't play any games at all.

So, would I be happy with just a single processor? Or would dual processors make that much of a differnce for the kind of work I do?

[Simon]

Originally posted by asmack:
So, would I be happy with just a single processor? Or would dual processors make that much of a differnce for the kind of work I do?...

...I spend 90% of my time surfing and emailing, with the remaining 10% spent doing digital photography, light HTML work, ripping/burning CDs and watching DVDs. I don't play any games at all.

Well, actually it's the gamers that don't care that much about dual CPUs. E-mail/web doesn't necessarily need duals. But as soon as you do CPU intensive stuff in parallel you need dual G4s.

Ripping and burning CDs is often done in the background. Maybe you'd like to edit your photos meanwhile or watch a DVD? That's when the duals are nice to have. If you can afford it, get a dual box. If you can't, then you can't. Anyhow, going from a 266MHz G3 to a 1GHz G4 will be a great kick. Have fun.

[asmack]

Thanks, Simon. As you can tell from my computing needs, I'm not really a power user. I'm used to doing only one thing at a time on my computer, so having dual processors is not absolutely essential to me. An iMac or eMac would probably suit my needs better, but I still prefer a separate monitor.

I guess what I would really like to know is: will OSX on the 1 GHz PM G4 feel just as snappy as OS9 on my current rig? I imagine it would, but I don't know for sure since I have had virtually no hands-on experience with OSX yet...

[Simon]

Originally posted by asmack:
I guess what I would really like to know is: will OSX on the 1 GHz PM G4 feel just as snappy as OS9 on my current rig? I imagine it would, but I don't know for sure since I have had virtually no hands-on experience with OSX yet...

That's a bit difficult to judge since you will hear every opinion possible on this topic in this forum.

I have a dual 867 PowerMac and OS X feels snappier to me than OS 9. I don't know how a single G4 would make it feel. For sure the single 1GHz G4 should show quite some power and a 266MHz G3 is pretty old for OS X. I'd guess you won't be disappointed, but I can't give you hard numbers because I lack the experience.

[docholiday]

Originally posted by asmack:
I guess what I would really like to know is: will OSX on the 1 GHz PM G4 feel just as snappy as OS9 on my current rig?

It will feel very snappy. I have a G4 733 (pre-quicksilver) and it feels pretty snappy in OS X, snappier than OS 9 on the 1st Rev iMacs at my old school.

Getting the 1Ghz is a great choice. You mentioned you don't do processor-intensive tasks too often; and when you do, you will realize the 1Ghz is a formidable machine.

Also, it's quiet. I dunno about other people out there, but I would never buy a machine as loud as the old MDDs. I was at a Mac retailer and listened carefully to the fan noise: horrible. I mean, if you want to keep your sanity while using the computer at home or in a semi-quiet work area, then steer clear from the old MDDs.

[Superchicken]

1Ghz G4, with quartz extream your system should feel snappy with just one processor, unless you're spending tons of time in Photoshop and will shed a tear if you ever see the beach ball within the next two years then go with the single 1Ghz.

[chdupond]

Originally posted by asmack:

I guess what I would really like to know is: will OSX on the 1 GHz PM G4 feel just as snappy as OS9 on my current rig? I imagine it would, but I don't know for sure since I have had virtually no hands-on experience with OSX yet...

this is exactly the question I asked to myself when I upgraded my WallStreet (G3 233 Mhz) to a Titanium 867 MHz.
The answer is yes : it is at least as snappy.
And of course, for intensive calculation (Photoshop, DivX), it is much much faster.
Do not forget also that there is plenty room for optimization in OS X and the 10.3, 10.4 would be even snappier.

You won't be disappointed.

[asmack]

Thanks everyone for their replies. I will weigh these in my decision to purchase a 1 GHz PowerMac G4 in the next few days...

[booboo]

One major consideration is that the Dual 867 is OS 9 bootable.

Being able to boot into 9 has saved my bacon (and I say this as a vegetarian) on a number of occasions.

I guess if I knew my way round terminal commands, this wouldn't be such an issue.

I say this as someone who has just taken the plunge and ordered a dual 867 in definite preference to a single 1GHz - even though I said I would wait for the next generation, I got the offer of a VAT off deal, so I went for it.

If I could be happy with a single 1GHz G4, I'd buy an iMac, or even a TiBook.

Also, as I consider the speed difference between 867 and 1000 to be minimal, the choice is almost as between a single 1GHz and a Dual 1GHz and that, as you say, is a 'no brainer...'

[slider]

Dual.

[docholiday]

Originally posted by slider:
Dual.

care to explain why this would be a good choice for him?

[slider]

Originally posted by docholiday:
care to explain why this would be a good choice for him?

Yes, actually I do.

[superfula]

Originally posted by docholiday:
care to explain why this would be a good choice for him?

Well I'll explain. It really doesn't matter if the applications are dual processor aware, OSX is. Having dual processors will allow OSX to share the load between the two (obviously), so whatever apps you are running, the duals will give much better performance vs a single processor, and they will be more "future proof" than any single processor Mac.

[docholiday]

hey slider, sorry i didn't mean to sound rude.

all i meant to say is that for asmack the single processor G4 is a better choice as he isn't doing a lot of stuff that requires dual processors. also, apps that utilize only 1 processor (like games) are gonna be faster on the single processor 1Ghz.

[a2daj]

Even if all I do is mostly play games on my Mac, I'd go for the dual over the 1GHz. Even if a game isn't optimized for SMP, the sound processing can usually be offloaded to the other CPU in OS X. You don't like the music soundtrack of a particular game? Load up iTunes and play it in the background.
Unless future Macs included the multicore CPUs, I'll probably never buy a single proc Mac desktop again.

[slider]

Originally posted by docholiday:
hey slider, sorry i didn't mean to sound rude.

all i meant to say is that for asmack the single processor G4 is a better choice as he isn't doing a lot of stuff that requires dual processors. also, apps that utilize only 1 processor (like games) are gonna be faster on the single processor 1Ghz.

My post was more of a vote. The reason for my support for the duals, are what have been stated here all ready. Mac OS X is a mulitasking fool. I will, in future always go dual if given the option.

Thats docholiday for the polite return, I was pissy and I apologize.