Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

kaz7777 · Feb 5, 2003, 09:12 PM

Hey Guys,

Does anyone know what the differences are, if any, between the previous batch of 1.25 DPs (prior to the new PM release), and the new batch ($1995). There was talk of excesive fan noise in the old batch. Does anyone know if that problem has been addressed?

AssassyN · Feb 5, 2003, 09:16 PM

Yep! That "excess fan noise" was definitely an issue w/ the old 1.25 DP Ghz machines, and it was addressed in the new models. Apple claims to have fixed that "windtunnel" problem.

Also, the new batches come with AirPort Extreme as well as the much talked about FireWire 800 port. Too, the graphics cards that are avilable for the new models dramatically exceed the cards in the previous models. Also, I believe the SuperDrive has been updated to burn DVD's at 4x instead of the 2x-speed reached by the old models.

And I'm not 100% positive, but I know the RAM included in the new models is DDR (double data rate) RAM and I believe the old ones had SDR (single data rate) RAM.

I'm not sure if I'm leaving anything out, but I'm pretty sure I got the major differences between the two...hope this helps!

Scotttheking · Feb 5, 2003, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
Yep! That "excess fan noise" was definitely an issue w/ the old 1.25 DP Ghz machines, and it was addressed in the new models. Apple claims to have fixed that "windtunnel" problem.

Also, the new batches come with AirPort Extreme as well as the much talked about FireWire 800 port. Too, the graphics cards that are avilable for the new models dramatically exceed the cards in the previous models. Also, I believe the SuperDrive has been updated to burn DVD's at 4x instead of the 2x-speed reached by the old models.

And I'm not 100% positive, but I know the RAM included in the new models is DDR (double data rate) RAM and I believe the old ones had SDR (single data rate) RAM.

I'm not sure if I'm leaving anything out, but I'm pretty sure I got the major differences between the two...hope this helps!

Both machines are PC2700 ram based, but everything else is correct.

geekwagon · Feb 6, 2003, 12:52 PM

The $1999 model doesn't come with the Superdrive, so you have to add it yourself or get one in a BTO machine. The old 1.25 also had 2mb of L3 cache per processor and the new one has 1mb per CPU. The new one also has a socket and an antenna for an internal bluetooth module.

As an owner of both an older MDD867 and a new FW800 1.25, I can tell you that the noise situation is much improved in the new models.

spiznet · Feb 6, 2003, 01:09 PM

Also, the new one is OSX boot only, as other threads & articles have noted.

(It doesn't say this specifically on the Apple site.)

UnixMac · Feb 6, 2003, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
Both machines are PC2700 ram based, but everything else is correct.

Does the PC2700 contribute at all to performance, what's the verdict on that, as it relates to the G4 FSB?

BTW... I live 10 miles North of Mesa..

mac freak · Feb 8, 2003, 08:45 PM

The DDR ram does NOTHING to improve performance over normal SDR ram in the current crop of Power Macs with an aging motherboard design and SDR busses at 167 MHz...

On a side note, I can't wait for the 970, what with its 900 MHz FSB.

Simon · 09:14 PM

Originally posted by mac freak:
The DDR ram does NOTHING to improve performance over normal SDR ram in the current crop of Power Macs with an aging motherboard design and SDR busses at 167 MHz...

This is not quite true. Yes, the G4 has a MaxBus that's limited at 166MHz. So PC2700 DDR will not be of a benefit to the CPU. However, behind the system controller there is stuff going on that can and does benefit from the DDR. For instance DMA calls to or from RAM. The CPUs can use their full 166MHz, but there is still 166MHz left for the components on the other side of the system controller to get their work done at the same time.

You can observe this when you look at I/O performance on the new architecture. barefeats.com did some testing (check the last two graphs on this page) when the first MDDs came out and you can clearly see that the one area that actually gets accelerated is I/O. This has to do exactly with DMA.

So, don't expect CPU tasks to go faster just because of DDR, but it's not correct to say that DDR does absoluetly nothing in these new Macs.

kOnshii · Feb 10, 2003, 06:00 AM

I'v read in an article that in most cases when the 1Ghz DDR was benchmarked againt's the 1Ghz SDR, the SDR was a fraction quicker.

How is this so, answer....

Knowbody knows...... (BUT ME!!!)

APPLE tried to pull-off a MICHIEL Jackson on us , they tried to cosmetically coated these boards with FAKE DDR, knowing that they did little improvement and cost a whole lot more. They suceeded.

It's all an image thing, apple can't stand the fact that it took them soooOO long to adopt SDR 133 and actually advertised it on their site, "now with SDR 133 RAM" like that was something worth bragging about. This was when the evil PCs were flying along with true DDR and technology such as RAMBUS ram.

SDR made them look bad, and IT SHOULD. SO they just implemented DDR to shut us up!!! don't worry about it not doing anything toward the CPU, don't worry that it cost me about double the price of sd for 2gigs worth of ddr knowing it does nothing for performance, HEY people with mac can afford it right.

We are the "smart one" you'll have to be, to be able to afford it. How much do lawers make these day, i wonder if they can afford Mac's cause i know the average joe can't.

Simon · Feb 10, 2003, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by kOnshii:
SDR made them look bad, and IT SHOULD. SO they just implemented DDR to shut us up!!! don't worry about it not doing anything toward the CPU, don't worry that it cost me about double the price of sd for 2gigs worth of ddr knowing it does nothing for performance, HEY people with mac can afford it right.

Ah nock it off. You're just another one of these hypocritical trolls who would bash Apple had they not implemented DDR and now that they have, you still bash em. It's absolutely insane - you will always find something to bitch about, right?

Just live with it or leave it. And finally, please shut up. Thanks.

booboo · Feb 10, 2003, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by kOnshii:

... This was when the evil PCs were flying along with true DDR and technology such as RAMBUS ram.

RAMBUS? Now we're really talking EVIL!

Originally posted by kOnshii:

...APPLE tried to pull-off a MICHIEL Jackson on us

PS. I can't remember the last time Apple had my 12 year old boy stay overnight....

kOnshii · Feb 10, 2003, 09:35 PM

Ohh, noo, we can't say anything BAD about apple can we, that would make me a troll.

I hate PC's But i hate it even more, when i have to turn to them knowing that my mac is not sufficient enough to do the job. Ever had to convert 20Gigs non compressed Music files to mp4 just to save space, and know that you can save hours and hourse doing the same thing on my Athlon or pull your hair out with my 1.25DDR MAC.

Simon · Feb 11, 2003, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by kOnshii:
Ever had to convert 20Gigs non compressed Music files to mp4 just to save space, and know that you can save hours and hourse doing the same thing on my Athlon or pull your hair out with my 1.25DDR MAC.

Well, then do it on your damned Athlon and get the hell off this board. I'm so sick of you trolling suckers, really.

UnixMac · Feb 11, 2003, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
Well, then do it on your damned Athlon and get the hell off this board. I'm so sick of you trolling suckers, really.

Simon, First off, I really like your signature, about windows... where did you get that?? I love it!

As for the argument that seem to be happening here.... I really think that it's not trolling to wish the Mac was faster.. after all it's a lot more expensive... however, I am more than happy to put up with its (not to major, for now) speed disadvantage to have the beauty of OS X... as for Windows (XP and 2000 included), you couldn't pay me to switch back.... I have to keep my XP machine for the odd PC only app, but every time I start to use it, I always wish that I spent the $700 on a Sonet Card for my Dual 500!

Simon · 09:25 AM

Originally posted by UnixMac:
Simon, First off, I really like your signature, about windows... where did you get that?? I love it!

Thanks. Well actually a friend of mine came up with it when he ditched his Windows box. He kicked it out of the window - honestly, no kidding. The machine had just freaked again after he attached some device to the serial port and WinME locked, ate its own stupid registry while locking and he was forced to re-install the whole OS, apps, everything. He was incredibly furious.
We were still at the univerity at the time and we had this appartment in the second floor. He opened the window, looked out to see if nobody was standing around on the lawn behind the house. He took the PC (some no-name desktop) and really dropped it out of the window. The case shattered, the thing virtually exploded because it was winter and the ground was pretty frozen and hard. It took him about an hour to gather all the bits and pieces on the lawn but when he came back upstairs he told me he had found this sig somewhere on the net and he would from now on never use another sig.

The guy is real nut (he actually shot his car with a shotgun when it gave up on him for like the seventh time in two months and he also got kicked out of his first university for boxing a prof who had accused him of screwing with measurement results even though he didn't), but the sig was cool. Ever since that I've been using it to.

I actually have been asked a couple of times where the sig comes from and I have asked him about it. He can't remeber the place. He said it didn't say anything about an author, but he can't remember a URL.

As for the argument that seem to be happening here.... I really think that it's not trolling to wish the Mac was faster.. after all it's a lot more expensive...

No, absolutely. It's not. However, it has to do with how people address issues. Some people discuss problems and solutions here. Others come in here with a post count of three and start talking about how they were let down by there dual 1.44 GHz PowerMacs with 2GB RAM running Jaguar, how Steve is such an ass and how much faster a 800MHz PIII would have been. They aren't really interested in the problem or a possible solution - they just like to bash the Mac. I say to them, get a life and get the hell off this board. You already are 95% of the user base and you occupy 95% of the debates. Please just leave our 3% to us and leave our discussions alone.

however, I am more than happy to put up with its (not to major, for now) speed disadvantage to have the beauty of OS X... as for Windows (XP and 2000 included), you couldn't pay me to switch back.... I have to keep my XP machine for the odd PC only app, but every time I start to use it, I always wish that I spent the $700 on a Sonet Card for my Dual 500!

Yeah, you see that's a completely different way of pronouncing a problem! No trolling, no bullshitting. Nobody will object to a post like that.

No reasonable person on this board ever claimed that the Mac was the fastest or cheapest computer around. That's not Apple's market. Those who run OS X on an old G3 or G4 know that it could be faster and nobody in their right mind would object to that. But, those people who own a new dual G4 PowerMac know that Jaguar is very fast on them and they know why we pay a premium for this hardware: Because it runs OS X and it runs it very good.

I've already said this in another thread: Apple could sell their towers at the exact same price point a comparable Dell has. But then OS X would cost 500$. Would you prefer that? In the end it doesn't matter. We pay more and we know why. If somebody doesn't, he or she is free to leave and get a Dell. Apple wants to sell machines, they want to make money. They are giving us the best Moto has to offer. If some people can't live with that they should get a PC before committing suicide.

Simon · Feb 11, 2003, 09:18 AM

Stupid me. Sorry, double-post. Mods, could you delet this? Thanks.

UnixMac · Feb 11, 2003, 07:01 PM

Thanks Simon...

As for the Dual 1.25 new vs old...

Well, today I went with a friend and bought a new one... he is a switcher and I am the cause.... He loves OS X...

We learned that the new one also has no superdrive, and a 1MB L3 vs 2MB per G4... so the 500 cost difference was of $500 between the old and new was for those reasons, and also that the RAM was 256MB vs 512...

anywho... we bought the new one, along with a 20" display (which is awesome btw)... and all went well...

BUT NOW.. I have a switching question...

How the hell do you burn a CD-RW in Windows 98? We are trying to migrate his .doc, .pdf etc.. file to his mac, and can't figure out how to burn them onto his Dull PIII, windows 98 Box... I thought it was just a matter of drag and drop into the E: drive... am I missing something?

sliminfinite · Feb 11, 2003, 07:12 PM

"BUT NOW.. I have a switching question...

How the hell do you burn a CD-RW in Windows 98? We are trying to migrate his .doc, .pdf etc.. file to his mac, and can't figure out how to burn them onto his Dull PIII, windows 98 Box... I thought it was just a matter of drag and drop into the E: drive... am I missing something?

"

Oh, no no no no no. Nothing is ever so easy in Windows. You see, Windows doesn't come with the software you need to get things done, it simply lets that extra software you buy work.

You'll need to get (buy) CD burning software. I don't particularly like any of the Windows CD burn software, so can't really recommend anything. Your friend may have got software along with the computer or CD-RW drive that will let them burn - have them check the original disks they might have lying around still.

Cheers,

Chris

UnixMac · Feb 11, 2003, 07:22 PM

You have got to be kidding me!!!

That sucks!

What happend to drag and drop!

Oh..well...

kOnshii · Feb 13, 2003, 06:38 AM

I know everyone hates me, but You peaple should be kidding yourselfs.

Windows 98, come on lets reserect the dinosaurs. It's Xp now.... If you want to compete 98 to os 9 that's more resonable.

You can't simply drage and drop files into a new mounted CD on OS 9 can you?

You need a burning program such as Rixio's toast. (the only reasonable program for the mac) Or Adaptec, nero or Rixio CD burning program for Windows.

As for OS X you can use the system to burn what you want, the same for XP. I wonder? Which system was it that could burn CD using the System software first? I don't remember XP.1 ever being release to support extra's. I don't hate the mac but simply bashing PC when the same thing is experience on the mac is not ON!

Simon · Feb 13, 2003, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by kOnshii:
You can't simply drage and drop files into a new mounted CD on OS 9 can you?

Troll, stick it. OS 9 does burn CDs right out of the OS. It's a system extension called DiscBurner. Go see for yourself. I did it like a thousand times because I didn't have Toast before I switched to X.

Stop claiming senseless bullsh�t. A simple google search would have at least put you in a better position to start with.

kOnshii · Feb 13, 2003, 06:50 AM

Continue hating me....

But i'v always been a multiplatformed user, and until recently hated both of them.

I really hate it when people complain of 98/ME, Yes microsoft should be sued for releasing this retarted crap of a system software. No that's not right, i would be insulting retarts out there.

But to the point OS9 was the same. Blue screen of death for the Windows, System error occured for the MAC, code Blah, blah, blah, (like knowing the code did any good)

ME gave the 95% of PC user this concept of a digital lifestyle, only it had extremely bad compatibility issues, and OS9 was a hefty frankinstine of a system. Every thing that could be done was done, making the sytem unstable.

XP Pro is fast, but still looks like crap, while OSX looks good, only processor hungry, and processor room is not what mac user can afford, since we lack it in so many ways. Remember we bought POWER MACS, because WE WANTED POWER!!!

kOnshii · Feb 13, 2003, 06:53 AM

What was that a 3rd party extension?

Well theres about a free million 3rd party sofware for 98 out there for PC. When i compared the 2 i ment when you buy it out for the BOX JERK.

if you talking about 3rd party software, well i wonder who has more?

kOnshii · Feb 13, 2003, 07:00 AM

I once had a friend called SIMON.

He died.

He must of been so seen skin turn green, and couldn't bare living with himself after seeing such uglyness.

Simon · Feb 13, 2003, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by kOnshii:
What was that a 3rd party extension?
...
if you talking about 3rd party software, well i wonder who has more?

Dude, go check the links I provided! You will see on the Apple page that Disc Burner was an extension that was part of the OS 9 system. It came installed on the machine or it was installed by the system installer CD. No 3rd party, no special install, no add-on. Pure Apple system component.

Looking at that childish and silly post above (the green skin crap) I should know that I am wasting my time trying to explain something to you.

kOnshii · Feb 13, 2003, 07:14 AM

Ok,

You win, so go home to your kids a brag about it...

Evil OS9 kicks ass, HAPPY...

Well, it was such a great feature, too bad i never herd of it. But yeah, i was childish, but i wasn't the one who started name calling? I can't dis my post, say it's stupid, but a calling me a trol, is just a cheap cop out.

kOnshii · Feb 13, 2003, 07:20 AM

i just realise i can't even understand what im writing, nothing i write makes sense. How the hell did i pass English class.

Just to clarify, call me a jerk, stupid head, idiot, BUT NEVER A TROL.

Like i said it's a cheap cop-out.

Simon · Feb 13, 2003, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by kOnshii:
You win

This isn't about winning. This board should be a place where we help each other and discuss things.

so go home to your kids a brag about it...

I don't have kids and fortunately my g/f doesn't want any either.

And I surely won't brag about this - what is there to brag about. It's just not important.

Evil OS9 kicks ass, HAPPY...

No, nobody is forcing you to say that. And it doesn't serve anybody if you say things you do not believe in. I for instance use OS X and Linux. I would never go back to OS 9.

But yeah, i was childish, but i wasn't the one who started name calling? I can't dis my post, say it's stupid, but a calling me a trol, is just a cheap cop out.

Look, calling you a troll happened because you come hear and claim obviously false stuff in a rude tone. If you just come here and say "I don't like x and y about OS 9 and XP does z better, but OS X looks nice, etc." stuff like that, nobody will call you a troll. Just stick to the facts and don't write in an other tone than you would use to address people standing next to you.

BTW, your nick looks somewhat japanese. Could that be?

kOnshii · Feb 13, 2003, 08:10 AM

Yeah, i migrated to AUS from JAP, to study electronic eng, but trying to cramp that in, with learning to speak a complex language like english all in 3 years is making me go MAD. SO i like to BITCH about things that piss me off.

Not enough money to buy a new MAC? PC looking like Crap, and then being called a TROl. You know the usual.

kOnshii · Feb 13, 2003, 08:12 AM

Hey, wait a minute, false statement.

Spending double the amount of ram, for the same performance, Come-on is that really flase??? SDR vs DDR 1.25ghz

Simon · Feb 13, 2003, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by kOnshii:
Spending double the amount of ram, for the same performance, Come-on is that really flase??? SDR vs DDR 1.25ghz

Well, as I pointed out in an earlier post it's not exactly the case that the DDR does nothing. But that's a detail - it doesn't do that much either.

False is however, that, and I'll quote you, "they tried to cosmetically coated these boards with FAKE DDR". And false is also that you couldn't burn CDs w/o third-party apps under 9 which is actually the statement I meant when I wrote "claim obviously false stuff".

But I think we can forget that and get on with the real discussion, don't you think?

kOnshii · Feb 13, 2003, 08:33 AM

Ok lets forget about it,

hey Michiel Jackson was on TV so often and on the lounge post that many times, that i thought we or i should include him in the G4 discusion. I thought it would only be fair to spread his name in all forums.

Well believe it or not, I DID have a friend called simon. So i tried to make the most of it. Sorry if it sounded childish.

UnixMac · Feb 13, 2003, 09:45 AM

glad to see you too worked it out..... both of you are nice guys and just met over the wrong subject and at the wrong time.

Thanks for the win98 info, again... pain in the ars! This computer of his is a PIII 600mhz, but I swear it has soooo many problems! He installed some kind of stupid crash fixer and all it does is keep beeping at you every tme you launch an app or move the mouse! and the machine move's like molasses in January.... my 500mhz Powermac is umpteen times faster and more responsive!

So anyway, I got me my second switcher now!! Apple owes me a commission!

I'm gonna go and post a separate thread and brag!

farmer · Feb 15, 2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by UnixMac:
Thanks Simon...

As for the Dual 1.25 new vs old...

Well, today I went with a friend and bought a new one... he is a switcher and I am the cause.... He loves OS X...

We learned that the new one also has no superdrive, and a 1MB L3 vs 2MB per G4... so the 500 cost difference was of $500 between the old and new was for those reasons, and also that the RAM was 256MB vs 512...

anywho... we bought the new one, along with a 20" display (which is awesome btw)... and all went well...

BUT NOW.. I have a switching question...

How the hell do you burn a CD-RW in Windows 98? We are trying to migrate his .doc, .pdf etc.. file to his mac, and can't figure out how to burn them onto his Dull PIII, windows 98 Box... I thought it was just a matter of drag and drop into the E: drive... am I missing something?

Have you tried networking them together. If both have a nic this would be easy.

As far as burning software, just find someone with a copy of nero or adaptec easycd creator, or toast. Nero is much better but unless someone has a full version the new bundled (as in comes with drive) only work with the drive they come with. Or just download a trial version of one of these to get the data off the pc.

Disclaimer **I am not advocating pirating software, you should just use it to do what you need for this particular situation and uninstall it***

Good Luck

UnixMac · Feb 16, 2003, 06:05 PM

thanks farmer...