[spacepower]

Apple claims that they fixed the noise problem. I don't have much experience with the old MDD Macs, just checked them out several times in the store. My brand new DP 1.25 FW800 is LOUD!!!!

First off, the fan under the optical drives, which cools the DPs and HD is always on!! As soon as I boot, it turns on and never shuts off. The DPs don't even get hot until after 4+ hours of use. The first 4 hours, the air coming out the back of the CPU is room temperature. So why do I have to listen to that 120mm fan all the time!!! I have had this CPU for 3 days and each day the fan has a higher, even more annoying pitch. I do believe that apple changed the power supply or at least the fans in it. My optical drives fan, located on the motherboard, has never turned on yet.

The noise coming from my cpu is unacceptable. Way too loud to be used in an audio or video production studio. Way too loud for a home office. Way too loud to put in your living room. It might be acceptable in a busy environment like compusa or an apple store where there is always loud background noise or music. This is unacceptable!! I have been reading about the problems with the first MDD all over the net for awhile. Just now, complaints about the new "quieter" MDD FW800 are starting to surface.

Supposedly apple may do something for the older MDD owners (with applecare), but i believe they also need to fix the current production line.

If anyone else with a MDD FW800 has the fan problems, i'd like to hear from you.
I am going to lease the cpu for the next 2 days to see how the noise fluctuates, if it even does so???

Also check out www.g4noise.com


Peace

[TheMosco]

my old MDD puts about about 67-70 db out of the power supply. It would be hard for apple not to be able to improve from that.

i am going to get the PSU replaced but have not had time.

[I Bent My Wookiee]

Are you 100% you looked at the new towers?

[iChristopher]

I'm not being sarcastic here, but how quiet do you expect a dual processor workstation to be? Is it possible your expectations exceed what's reasonable?

[booboo]

It does seem odd to me that it wasn't a design goal - from the outset - that a DP 1GHz was, say, only twice as loud as a 1GHz iMac....

[docholiday]

hmm this is weird. Apple said that the sound problem SPECIFICALLY was something they worked on really hard. So while the machine won't be an iMac it still should be a lot quieter than the old MDDs.

Maybe you should have your machine checked, there might be a problem with your machine.

Anyone else with a new G4 experiencing loud noises?

[mrchin]

I've been around the original MDDs for months now, and from experience, can tell you that these new ones are quieter. Also, as Apple has released a firmware update for the original MDDs about a month or so ago, if you check, there's a new update at support as of 1/29/03 that looks to improve on the fan noise.

[DinoG4]

Hi, My new powermac dual 1.25 to me is a bit noisey but tolerable....and Im sure its quieter than previous models due to the complaints and most posts I've read...All in All the performance outways any noise problems..in my opinion

[TheMosco]

Originally posted by mrchin:
I've been around the original MDDs for months now, and from experience, can tell you that these new ones are quieter. Also, as Apple has released a firmware update for the original MDDs about a month or so ago, if you check, there's a new update at support as of 1/29/03 that looks to improve on the fan noise.

that first update did nothing to fix the power supply fan noise. It only fixed a problem in os 9 where the heat sink fan went full speed. I dont see that new update that you mention. Link?

[Cipher13]

If you want a silent computer, get a calculator. Heh.

[RealMadrid]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
If you want a silent computer, get a calculator. Heh.

... or put it in another room as I have done with my DP 1GHz QS (which i think is not as loud as the MDD's, but still loud)

[docholiday]

Originally posted by RealMadrid:
... or put it in another room as I have done with my DP 1GHz QS (which i think is not as loud as the MDD's, but still loud)

good idea ..
one question though: how do ya change CDs or burn DVDs? isn't running to the other room every time you want to do something like that a hassle? Or does your work not require the use of an optical drive?

[Hagen]

Since yesterday, I have the new single 1Ghz. And really, there are not so quiet as they should be. I have an Dual 867 too and this thing is really loud ..in this way, the new ones are better, but not so good at all.


Hagen

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Hagen:
Since yesterday, I have the new single 1Ghz. And really, there are not so quiet as they should be. I have an Dual 867 too and this thing is really loud ..in this way, the new ones are better, but not so good at all.


Hagen

As they *should* be? Obviously you're the expert, maybe you need to have a word with Apple about how quiet their computers *should* be.

Is your car as fuel efficient as *you* think it should be? No? Well, better get on the horn to Volvo...

[Simon]

Originally posted by Hagen:
Since yesterday, I have the new single 1Ghz. And really, there are not so quiet as they should be. I have an Dual 867 too and this thing is really loud ..in this way, the new ones are better, but not so good at all.

Well, they are not iMacs after all. I think the days are gone for good where we had the little colored iMacs running cool G3s (mine had about 32 centigrade max temp!) without any fan at all!

I am in the process of selling my four month old dual 867 and getting a new dual 1.25. The new machine is surely faster and the graphic card is tons better, but most of all I can't wait to get some noise reduction.
In the beginning I thought I'd get used to it. For some time I thought I actually had. But recently this damn high-pitched whining has made me go totally apeshït. Even if the new duals are no iMacs and even if they are still loud, but as long as they're not high-pitched I'll be very happy.

There are two noise issues with fans for me: The wooosh-sound of air being blown out. This is at low frequencies. The other is the high-pitched whining coming from I don't know where... The bearings in the fans? Resonance with the case? Don't know.

If you take recordings and you analyze the dB of the noise you may find that the wooosh and the whining is the same. But this doesnt mean anything for humans - it's simply the physics. The way our ear is built, we are much more sensitive to high frequencies than to lower ones, so 10dB noise at 4kHz is much worse than 10dB noise at 100Hz.
There is actually a unit used to cope with this discrepency called phon IIRC. But unfortunately I can't measure those for my box. I'd really like to compare the old and new machines with hard numbers and get some science into the problem...

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Hagen:
Since yesterday, I have the new single 1Ghz. And really, there are not so quiet as they should be.Hagen

Sorry, if this is answered elsewhere, but have the new single 1Ghz the same modifications heatwise as the new duals?

[BobK]

YUP, they are loud. What else can you say, this has been covered nd covered.

[tr]

Originally posted by BobK:
YUP, they are loud. What else can you say, this has been covered nd covered.

yeah, quit whining and quit bringing this up. there's always like 5 threads about tower noise.

my sawtooth 400 is pretty noisy. maybe that's because i have 5 hard drives in it. damn you, ibm and western digital!!! why do you make your hard drives so noisy!!! iit's my right to be able to have 5 HD's inside and still have a silent computer!!!

tr

[Taipan]

Hi!

German print magazine "Macwelt" has posted some test results on their webpage, which list the Dual 1.25 with 38dB, which is not very loud (they got the same result for the old 450MHz PowerMac G4.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Taipan:
Hi!

German print magazine "Macwelt" has posted some test results on their webpage, which list the Dual 1.25 with 38dB, which is not very loud (they got the same result for the old 450MHz PowerMac G4.

38 dB measured how and from where?

Anyways, the new 7457 PowerMacs when they come out (if ever) should hopefully be significantly quieter. The CPUs put out much less wattage.

In the meantime, how are the current PowerMac cases designed? Is it possibly to swap out the power supply or other fans for a quieter one? The PC geeks have been doing quiet hacks for quite some time, and can get 2+ GHz machines to be fairly quiet safely.

Indeed, even my 1.6 GHz retail HP is very quiet compared to the new MDD PowerMacs.

Also, how much of the noise is related to fan noise vs. noise of other components? I have now managed to get my Celeron 1.4 Ghz machine (which has more heat output than a single 1.25 GHz G4) to levels where the loudest components are actually my IBM 60GXP and 75GXP hard drives.

yeah, quit whining and quit bringing this up. there's always like 5 threads about tower noise.

my sawtooth 400 is pretty noisy. maybe that's because i have 5 hard drives in it. damn you, ibm and western digital!!! why do you make your hard drives so noisy!!! iit's my right to be able to have 5 HD's inside and still have a silent computer!!!

Judging by your it seems you have resigned yourself to the idea that all hard drives make tons of noise. That is quite false. For instance, the Seagate Barracuda IV hard drives are essentially silent.

And why are people jumping on his case about PowerMac noise? Last time I looked there were NOT a bazillion threads about the FW800 PowerMacs, which are supposed to be quieter than the old FW400 PowerMacs.

[Mac Zealot]

Geez maybe I should consider myself lucky that I have a quicksilver.

this morning, I hit the power button on my monitor while standing up (couldn't tell wheter it lit up or not), and thought I hadn't, so I repeatedly hit it until I finally sit down, wondering what happened, and noticed the OS X boot screen came up on my monitor.

The only problem was when OS X started to load the computer got noisier, and noisier.

*sigh* I guess my machine has the same problems as the MDD machines, it knows no other fan speed but full blast.

[kupan787]

Didn't you guys know, the reason Apple is bundling iTunes now with all Macs is so that you can play your music to drown out the noise of their towers. It is their solution to the noise problem

But really, my machine isn't nearly as bad as my roommates pc. Talk about loud, he rarley leaves it running if he isnt using it (not even sleep mode, complete shut down).

My machine is under my bed, and about 2 feet away from me. I can hear it hum with no music playing, but it isn't that bad that I am uncomfortable.

[Mac Zealot]

LOL. Yes. All my PCs seem to be louder.

But then again that's just me, I have a maxtor hard drive in my PC and it's nooooiiiiiisy.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Eug:
In the meantime, how are the current PowerMac cases designed? Is it possibly to swap out the power supply or other fans for a quieter one?

Eug, I have an MDD and while it seems to not be one of the loudest around it still bugs me from time to time.

Fore more info on this check http://www.g4noise.com
I hate the sight layout (so overloaded!) and I always get confused, but they have good links.

The PS can be replaced, it's just held back by two screws and it takes like ten seconds to get it out. But twenty minutes to get it back in because it fits pretty tight. :-))

However, you don't need to really exchange the PS. The common approach is to replace the two little noisy delta fans at the back of the PS. There are replacement fans around that are cheap and many claim it really does a good job. The next guy would be the big 120mm CPU fan, but it's normally much less a problem than the PS fans. It can however also be replaced.

The general design problem here is that the PS has to be rather flat (it's screwed to the side of the machine), hence Apple had to take two small fans. Being that small and the PS being that high-powered and hot the fans have to pump at huge RPMs to get the proper amount of air out. Noise. I've been told that they also don't vary in speed (like the CPU fan does) and therefore are always on full blast. This has supposedly changed on the FW800 models. Here the fans should be changing speed. So if you don't have three PCI cards, four HDDs and two opticals running at full blast you also shouldn't get the fans to go like crazy.

Lazy people with no time like me also have some possibilities to get rid of the noise. I found out that my local dealer would do the PS mod for me in a half an hour with no voided warranty for roughly 200 dollars. Quite some cash, but if I can't sell the machine I'll do it, because I know the box is going to be around until rev2 of the 970/G5/whatever.

Also, how much of the noise is related to fan noise vs. noise of other components?

I think the majority's opinion here is that it's mainly the fans. It's not just a loud wooosh of the air going out of the case, but a strange high-pitched whining. Some people don't mind, others even returned their boxes because of this. But I also think it's a quite personal thing. There are little to no exact measurement procedures to compare the noise neither in amplitude space (phon or dB) nor in frequency space (what pitch the sounds have). Search this forum for info on that. There was a guy who did some great analysis with a microphone and a spectrum analyzer, but unfortunately he's one of the only who were able to do this.
Needless to say that machines could also have different noise levels (make, manufacturer, component supplier etc.).

Finally there has been some talk on resonance. Some people think that it could be a case resonance that gets excited. Possible. At least one guy claimed to have gotten a more quiet machine after he inserted damping material (parts of an old leather palm case) between the PS and the case.

[greenG4]

Nothing is ever good enough. We better get liquid nitrogen cooled processors next time!!!! Sheesh. As an audio recorder/editor I would love to have a silent Mac tower. Not gonna happen. Get one of those silent cases if it's that big an issue for you. I'm gettin' misty...

[glideslope]

"Geez maybe I should consider myself lucky that I have a quicksilver."

They will need to pry my 733 Quick Silver from my cold, blue fingers!!!!

[rm199]

try listening to a dell 'quietcase' workstation. I say try because they are silent with dual xeon and whatever hard disks. It is obviously not impossible to make a quiet workstation

RM

[tr]

Originally posted by Eug:
[B}

Judging by your it seems you have resigned yourself to the idea that all hard drives make tons of noise. That is quite false. For instance, the Seagate Barracuda IV hard drives are essentially silent.

And why are people jumping on his case about PowerMac noise? Last time I looked there were NOT a bazillion threads about the FW800 PowerMacs, which are supposed to be quieter than the old FW400 PowerMacs. [/B]

i'm not saying that all hd's are noisy. i'm sure i could've gotten your 'essentially silent' (which really doesn't make sense, either something makes noise, or it doesn't, there's no inbetween) seagates. but what i'm saying is computers are noisy. they make noise. if you want silence, then don't get a tower! it's well known that people have said that the first MDD's were loud (and there are many threads on this) , apple said that they reduced the noise in the last iteration. that doesn't mean they are silent now. they are still going to make noise. maybe they are quieter than the first ones...by apple's testing. like Simon said, there are no exact, standard testing procedures for noise.

the MDD's are noisy. we know. if you don't like your MDD because of the noise, then return it, try to isolate the problem and fix it, or give it to me. i'll gladly take one of these 'noisy' computers. i'm sure it's way quieter than the PC i use at work, that sounds like a freakn' blowdryer.

tr

[Eug]

i'm not saying that all hd's are noisy. i'm sure i could've gotten your 'essentially silent' (which really doesn't make sense, either something makes noise, or it doesn't, there's no inbetween) seagates. but what i'm saying is computers are noisy. they make noise. if you want silence, then don't get a tower!

My P4 1.6 GHz tower at work is "essentially silent". What do I mean by that? Well if I'm two feet away from it I can hear it but any further it is inaudible. That's good enough for me, esp. since it's under my desk.

It has very quiet fans, both in the PSU and on the CPU and it has a Seagate Barracuda IV in it. And it came that way from the vendor (HP). No modifications.

In fact, at the same distance, my TiBook's fan is noticeably louder, and it's even more pronounced because my laptop doesn't sit on the floor several feet away under my desk.

[tr]

Originally posted by Eug:
My P4 1.6 GHz tower at work is "essentially silent". What do I mean by that? Well if I'm two feet away from it I can hear it but any further it is inaudible. That's good enough for me, esp. since it's under my desk.

It has very quiet fans, both in the PSU and on the CPU and it has a Seagate Barracuda IV in it. And it came that way from the vendor (HP). No modifications.

In fact, at the same distance, my TiBook's fan is noticeably louder, and it's even more pronounced because my laptop doesn't sit on the floor several feet away under my desk.

just because your PC is 'essentially silent' does not make it silent. it makes noise. you state that it's 'good enough for you'; well, that's great, but it doesn't mean it's good enough for someone else. maybe you have a deficient range of hearing, or a higher 'annoyance threshold'...i don't know. and i'm not saying that all PC's are loud. i merely stated that the PC that i use at work sounds like a freakin' blowdryer. and it does. and it came that way from the vendor (no name generic put together box), no modifications.

and what if your TiBook was sitting on the floor, under your desk. would it still be louder? could resonance damping from the floor play a part in your HP being quiet? could standing waves set up in your TiBook case create the effect of a more pronounced hum? could standing waves setup in the desk from the TiBook make it seem noticeably louder? and how do you quantify 'noticeably louder'? 1 dB? .25 dB?

see, there are just too many variables in determining if one computer is louder than another. the variables range from surroundings to owner perception.

tr

[Mac Zealot]

Anyone else here think eug is in one of those bad times?

[Maneki Neko]

Originally posted by rm199:
try listening to a dell 'quietcase' workstation. I say try because they are silent with dual xeon and whatever hard disks. It is obviously not impossible to make a quiet workstation

RM

Agreed. We just got some precision 350 workstations at work, and for a 3.06 GHz cpu, they are the quietest machines I've seen (or maybe I should say "heard") in quite a while.

[Eug]

just because your PC is 'essentially silent' does not make it silent. it makes noise. you state that it's 'good enough for you'; well, that's great, but it doesn't mean it's good enough for someone else.

True, but I believe you'd agree my desktop is quiet, esp. if you're used to a MDD PowerMac. In the stores the MDD fan noise was quite bothersome to me, even over the background noise. I've never used a Dell Quietcase or whatever they're called, but I've heard those are quiet too. The previous post seems to agree.

maybe you have a deficient range of hearing, or a higher 'annoyance threshold'...i don't know. and i'm not saying that all PC's are loud. i merely stated that the PC that i use at work sounds like a freakin' blowdryer. and it does. and it came that way from the vendor (no name generic put together box), no modifications.

Trust me, my PC makes the MDD sound like a vacuum cleaner. You probably should have picked a different vendor for your PC. Cheap generics I find are usually louder because they use cheap parts, or at least they don't pay attention to noise issues. For business clients and mass purchases, the name brands will often build machines that aren't the fastest, but which have parts that will minimize noise.

what if your TiBook was sitting on the floor, under your desk. would it still be louder?

Yes. It's funny you should ask, because I've actually tried it. The difference is quite obvious in fact. The TiBook is louder when both TiBook fans are on. See my sig.

Anyone else here think eug is in one of those bad times?

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by RealMadrid:
... or put it in another room as I have done with my DP 1GHz QS (which i think is not as loud as the MDD's, but still loud)

I put my MDD DP867 in another room and cannot hear a thing from it. Sure beats buying a calculator as Cipher13 suggested. BTW, I have a 2.66Ghz Dell Dimension 4550 on my desk and cannot even tell it is on. My cube hard drive is all I can hear. So you can have a quiet computer.

[tr]

Originally posted by Eug:

Trust me, my PC makes the MDD sound like a vacuum cleaner. You probably should have picked a different vendor for your PC. Cheap generics I find are usually louder because they use cheap parts, or at least they don't pay attention to noise issues. For business clients and mass purchases, the name brands will often build machines that aren't the fastest, but which have parts that will minimize noise.

yeah, if it was up to me (which they asked my opinion, i told them to get a G4, then they said 'OK, we'll ge this P4', them being the higher-ups! ), i woudln't have bought that machine, and if i had to get a PC, i wouldn't have gotten that machine. the machine is loud, but i don't care, as long as i can get the work done, on mac or windbox, it's fine with me. is it a much nicer experience on a mac, hell yeah, but either way, the work gets done.

and you know, you mayb be right, i've never directly compared an MDD to your HP, so it could be quieter. i've also never seen one of those quietcase Dells...

quote:
Anyone else here think eug is in one of those bad times?

no, i don't think Eug is in one of those bad times. this is nothing more than a DISCUSSION. sure, we may have opinion differences, but, hey, we're different people. it's not like i think Eug is an ass for having different opinions from me, i still have a lot of respect for him, he's helped a lot of people here, and given good info. that's why it's a good discussion, when there are knowledgeable people taking part.
i hope people aren't thinking that this is some angry argument about noisy computers...

tr

[Eug]

and you know, you mayb be right, i've never directly compared an MDD to your HP, so it could be quieter. i've also never seen one of those quietcase Dells...

Heh. BTW, in case anyone is wondering, I'm not saying that PC is great or anything. It's not as if I actually like using that PC desktop.

Sure it is very quiet, but I'm forced to run WinNT on it. Now that is painful.

[Akarso]

Jesus christ! I'm sooo tired of people complaining about the whole MDD noise issue! It's not that bad!! What are you guys doing when you're using your computer anyways? Putting your ear right next to the side of the case?

[DP867_User]

Sorry Akarso but we have the right to prefer silence to work than the noise...
So, I just write here to say that I just come from an Apple dealer where I'd got the time to listen the new G4's dual 1,25Ghz and to compare with my (old) dual 867Mhz at home.
So...For me and my ears the difference is near...zero :-(
This machine makes the SAME noise as my dual maybe more because I could differentiate the big noise IN THE SHOP which is normally difficult. I heard the same loudy noise and I ask to the vendor if he noticed that. He answered me that he prefers not to speak about that because it's a shame for Apple.
I don't know what to do, buy a new one dual1,25 and put new fans or waiting for the next revision of G4's...
Before ending, I just want to say that I'am an old Apple's lover as many people on this forum and I'am not an anonymous sniper!
Please Apple! Do something quickly!

[spacepower]

Well I started this thread to find out more info about the fan noise and especially get feedback from others that have purchased the new FW800 MDD.

Some people have given good feedback while others complain that we have started a discussion here. Yes there may be many threads on the older MDD noise problems and while those are helpful for reference, we are discussing the newer computers. References to older G4 models and PCs don't bother me.

What does bother me are some peoples' bad attitudes. I generally consider mac users as curtious, friendly, and helpful people. keyword HELPFUL.

Yes i know that a DP G4 is not going to be a "quiet" machine. I thought that mine was exceptionally loud, and posted this thread to find out if others were having the same problem. Maybe my machine has a particular problem, and others machines don't. I was looking for other peoples experiences and constructive feedback.

Most people have been helpful or neutral but what bothers me is people who respond without any valuable contribution to the thread.

ie
Akarso
"Jesus christ! I'm sooo tired of people complaining about the whole MDD noise issue! It's not that bad!! What are you guys doing when you're using your computer anyways? Putting your ear right next to the side of the case?"

Hey Akarso, if you are so tired of it then don't read and post on the thread, especially if you aren't contributing anything useful.


greenG4
"Nothing is ever good enough. We better get liquid nitrogen cooled processors next time!!!! Sheesh. As an audio recorder/editor I would love to have a silent Mac tower. Not gonna happen. Get one of those silent cases if it's that big an issue for you. I'm gettin' misty..."

Hey greenG4 ? How are you helping this discussion?

tr
"yeah, quit whining and quit bringing this up. there's always like 5 threads about tower noise.
my sawtooth 400 is pretty noisy. maybe that's because i have 5 hard drives in it. damn you, ibm and western digital!!! why do you make your hard drives so noisy!!! iit's my right to be able to have 5 HD's inside and still have a silent computer!!"

hey tr, i guess you didn't read that this thread was about the FW800 MDD. In what way does your comment constructively add to this discussion? If you don't want to talk about these issues then don't waste your time and ours reading and posting to this thread.

Cipher13
"If you want a silent computer, get a calculator. Heh."

and

"as they *should* be? Obviously you're the expert, maybe you need to have a word with Apple about how quiet their computers *should* be.
Is your car as fuel efficient as *you* think it should be? No? Well, better get on the horn to Volvo..."

Hey Cipher13, these type of posts aren't helpful at all.

Why do people post with bad attitudes and insults? I thought this was a forum to discuss and help each other, not bash each other. I normally think of mac users as people that are above all of this. I guess that i have been proven wrong.

But I won't let a few bad apples ruin the bunch (pun intended)

PS
The 120mm fan is what makes all the noise, not the PS or hard drive. I am going to have it check out by the apple store.

Peace all and sorry for the long post

[Simon]

Originally posted by spacepower:
The 120mm fan is what makes all the noise, not the PS or hard drive. I am going to have it check out by the apple store.

Well, then your MDD is completely different than mine. Have you ever tried plugging the power cables of the 120mm CPU fan out of the motherbaord? I did and when I booted, my damn box was as loud as before. And the same game can be done with the optical bay fan. Same result for me. On my dual the main noise bastards are clearly the two little fans in the PS.

It could be however that if you manage the noise of the PS fans (through a mod for example) the CPU fan starts getting on your nerve... But I don't think so.

Does your CPU fan cycle at all? When I play UT in OS 9 I can hear the CPU fan cycle up as I put more load on the machine. I have however heard that there are some people who have an MDD where the CPU fan always blows full blast. Now that is awful.

[Eug]

OK, this isn't directly relevant to the MDD issue, but since we were talking about quiet drives...

Here are some Storagereview noise stats on some various drives, in case anybody is interested.

[Akarso]

Originally posted by spacepower:

Hey Akarso, if you are so tired of it then don't read and post on the thread, especially if you aren't contributing anything useful.

No you're right, i don't have to read this post or others like it, and i'm sorry if i came off a little brash, but i'm just tired of the complaining. What i don't understand is, just how quiet do you expect this computer to be? Every computer is going to generate noise, whether it may come from the proc itself, fans, cdroms, or hd's. The point is, there are no comp's (that are OEM) that are absolutely quiet. Even the G4 cube was loud, yes it didn't have fans, but you could still hear the hd being accessed and the dvd drive was especially noisey. (what's worst is that the cube was sitting there right in front of you, so you heard everything)

Oh, and here's MY contribution:
go to G4noise and mod the hell out of your MDD. They identify the "noise" culprit to those twin 60mm delta's cooling your power supply. Swap those out and hopefully that should do it for you.

and if it's still bad...well get ear plugs.

peace.

[TheMosco]

Originally posted by Akarso:
No you're right, i don't have to read this post or others like it, and i'm sorry if i came off a little brash, but i'm just tired of the complaining. What i don't understand is, just how quiet do you expect this computer to be? Every computer is going to generate noise, whether it may come from the proc itself, fans, cdroms, or hd's. The point is, there are no comp's (that are OEM) that are absolutely quiet. Even the G4 cube was loud, yes it didn't have fans, but you could still hear the hd being accessed and the dvd drive was especially noisey. (what's worst is that the cube was sitting there right in front of you, so you heard everything)

Oh, and here's MY contribution:
go to G4noise and mod the hell out of your MDD. They identify the "noise" culprit to those twin 60mm delta's cooling your power supply. Swap those out and hopefully that should do it for you.

and if it's still bad...well get ear plugs.

peace.

if you were a 16 year old student who spent $2400 of his own money on a machine that outputs 70 decibels from the power supply in a fluctuating manner that gives you a head ache, wouldn't you complain too?

[rhfactor]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
As they *should* be? Obviously you're the expert, maybe you need to have a word with Apple about how quiet their computers *should* be.

Is your car as fuel efficient as *you* think it should be? No? Well, better get on the horn to Volvo...

How old are you, may I ask? You sound about 15. Which is cool. But actually Apple has set as goals for themselves various environmental design standards -- and their own KB docs specify a max dBA of 51 at operational speed. so it is possiblt to quantify this stuff. But with your 14,000 posts i would expect you'd know that already.

[rhfactor]

Originally posted by Simon:
The way our ear is built, we are much more sensitive to high frequencies than to lower ones, so 10dB noise at 4kHz is much worse than 10dB noise at 100Hz.
There is actually a unit used to cope with this discrepency called phon IIRC. But unfortunately I can't measure those for my box. I'd really like to compare the old and new machines with hard numbers and get some science into the problem.[/B]

Simon, you're the first person I've run into that has made a scientific statement about this. I know that for me the high frequency whining pf the PS is way more annoying and grating than a 5-times-louder window airconditioning unit with a white-noise sound.

Aside from google, can you point me to soem good reference material that corroborates your statement about greater sensitivity to high frequency sound? For example, I have heard it said that this accounts for why a mother or father can be sound asleep yet hear a faint cry of a baby in the next room over and instantly be awakened -- they are tuned for that frequency awareness.

ANyway, I'd like to know more about phon IIRC measurements.

Thanks,

Richard
dv@on101.com

[rhfactor]

Originally posted by Akarso:
Jesus christ! I'm sooo tired of people complaining about the whole MDD noise issue! It's not that bad!! What are you guys doing when you're using your computer anyways? Putting your ear right next to the side of the case?

I hereby pronounce you ... ignorant.

I dare you to confront the NASA engineers who find their MDDs compltely unacceptable. No, you'll just rant here instead.

[MindFad]

Originally posted by rhfactor:
I hereby pronounce you ... ignorant.

I dare you to confront the NASA engineers who find their MDDs compltely unacceptable. No, you'll just rant here instead.

NASA has MDDs? Serious?

There's a space shuttle joke in there somewhere, but it's best we let it pass.

[rhfactor]

Originally posted by MindFad:
NASA has MDDs? Serious?

There's a space shuttle joke in there somewhere, but it's best we let it pass.

Yes, at Ames Research Center; they use them heavily. ... and I've heard those kind of shuttle jokes and don't find them amusing at all. I'm sure you didn't mean to trivialize the disaster that just happened.

[Mac Zealot]

Actually, I'd be afraid of MDD g4s if they are as loud as you say.

This house is rather noisy at times, and I can still hear my g4 'whirring' away upstairs when I'm downstairs watching TV.

[rhfactor]

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:
Actually, I'd be afraid of MDD g4s if they are as loud as you say.

This house is rather noisy at times, and I can still hear my g4 'whirring' away upstairs when I'm downstairs watching TV.

as simon notes, it is not purely a "loudness" issue. That is the biggest error people have made when they enter this "MDD NOISE" discussion arena without firtshand knowledge. Without a doubt, it's been verified thru recordings, that not all MDDs are annoyingly loud.

Which first off commnicates one of the biggest culprits: it's a quality control issue -- and they vary dramatically. Thus when dissenters say "you're full of ****, quit whining, mine is quiet" they may be right about theirs being quiet. But the interpretation that all must sound like theirs is fallacious. The areas of bad quality control have been isolated to the power supply assemblies -- some by AcBel, some by Samsung, both supplying the same part # to apple -- and the Delta Fans (the 60mm 'screaming black labels') inside the PS case. One of the reasons for the great variances is the complete lack of acoustical dampening material betwen metal-to-metal parts -- as well as the resonance between the plastic case and the inner metal case. Third, the tight squeeze of the PS asembly into its tray in the MDD has seen wide variations in the tightness of the screw mounts... all these factors combine to create these variances, which explain why some people have had quieter machines, some noisier.

Here' for example, are a series of G$-MDD noise recordings from new machines at CompUSA... they are all very well documented.
http://www.g4noise.com/listen_see/recordings.php

The second main issue is what simon describes -- it';s not the pure dBA measure, it's the frquency tone of the warbling/oscillating effect from the twin 60 mm fans in the PS... which in the MDD are "always at highest speed" and on the new FW800s are now better speed controlled and operate at lower speeds. They swapped the screaming black labels with new Nidec fans.
http://www.g4noise.com/forum/index.p...f=32&t=200

The high frequency whine -- not the pure loudness measure -- is what has driven so many people crazy with the MDD.

That's why I wish those of you who feel "no big deal" would just cool it... It's a legitimate issue with some fairly sixple fixes if made by an engineering pro -- but owners with apllecare don't want to void their warranties by doing these mods which inlcude more quiet fans, adding acosutic dampening, channeling the CPU fan flow more dircetly onot the heatsink... etc... It's Apple's stonewalling in acknowlkedging a problem -- and instead proclaiming "all duals are inherently loud" (preposterous, which they've proven with FW800) that is to blame here.

Lastly, some speculate (but I don't know) that the resaon the MDD got so little acoustic attention paid to it is they were cramming Xserve parts inot it to take advantage of economies of scale.