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PacHead · Feb 12, 2003, 10:13 AM

Ok, i was having some discussion with some fellow on another board, regarding OS9 and the new g4 macs(fw800)

I stated that OS9 will not boot on the new macs, which is pretty much what ive read on every single mac site ive been too. Apple has said this themselves.

This guy claimed that he has indeed seen os9 boot on the new macs.

And on xlr8yourmac, I found an article, where some other person also claimed to have succesfully made a OS9 boot partition on his new 1.25 g4 (fw800)

Obviously, features such as firewire 800 etc. will not work under os9, but.....

Whats the real deal ? ! ?

Will OS9 work or will it not ?

It would be nice to hear from somebody who actually owns one of the new machines and has tried this, and not just repeat what they have read somewhere.

The method they used, is the same method used to extract OS9 from the previous mirrormacs.

Nep2ne · Feb 12, 2003, 10:46 AM

Have no idea, haven't seen anything but I've believed what I've been told as well. And of course, I haven't heard from anyone that actually owns one, either....

:XI: · Feb 12, 2003, 02:15 PM

It might work. how well? who knows.
but i'm pretty sure it won't be supported.

NMR Guy · Feb 12, 2003, 02:48 PM

Here's a link to the xlr8yourmac thread which lists the procedure. scroll down to the end to see it.

xlr8yourmac thread

Nep2ne · Feb 12, 2003, 10:00 PM

This is big news, if correct. I was planning on buying the dual-boot machine but couldn't justify the extra cost despite the value of added RAM, HD Size & SuperDrive.

Can anyone else prove this is true??

I'm planning on buying this weekend.

Leonard · Feb 13, 2003, 10:36 AM

Well, there's nothing in the thread to say it actually works. No one in the thread actually tried it.

Somehow it's too simple to be true. I'll believe it when I see it.

Mac Zealot · Feb 13, 2003, 01:03 PM

Funny, now that I notice, looks like the new macs YET AGAIN have the funky heatsink with wings.

schalliol · Feb 13, 2003, 01:40 PM

I don't think that Apple said that it is impossible to boot new machines on OS 9, but rather that it's not supported. They won't make any effort to make things work on the new machines in OS 9, but why wouldn't it work? I would be surprised if FW worked at 800 I guess, but really, what would hold the machine back? Apple could be able to cripple the device if they wanted I'm sure.

Leonard · Feb 14, 2003, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by schalliol:
I don't think that Apple said that it is impossible to boot new machines on OS 9, but rather that it's not supported. They won't make any effort to make things work on the new machines in OS 9, but why wouldn't it work? I would be surprised if FW worked at 800 I guess, but really, what would hold the machine back? Apple could be able to cripple the device if they wanted I'm sure.

No that is not what Apple said. Apple has said the new Macs do not boot OS 9, and it's in writing right here... http://docs.info.apple.com/article.h...onID=anonymous|164377431

So I doubt they will boot into OS 9 unless someone finds a hack. And I don't believe the XLR8 thread, because that is basically installing OS 9 on a partition and booting from it. If that was as simple as it is, others would have found it already and reported it. Ie. it would be on the front page of XLR8 and MacFixit.

Peder Rice · Feb 15, 2003, 05:47 PM

That KBase article does not say that the new PowerMacs will not run OS 9, it simply says that they will not boot with it (probably suggesting that OS 9 is not included).

Just because Apple made a statement that marginally suggested it wouldn't work, very little changed in this latest revision, why wouldn't it work?

Nep2ne · Feb 16, 2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by Peder Rice:
That KBase article does not say that the new PowerMacs will not run OS 9, it simply says that they will not boot with it (probably suggesting that OS 9 is not included).

Just because Apple made a statement that marginally suggested it wouldn't work, very little changed in this latest revision, why wouldn't it work?

My point exactly. It would make sense for it to retain 9 capability and for Apple to have a backdoor "just in case"....

And regarding this news not being touted too heavily on MacFixIt or XLR8, I'm not too surprised, as this capability only looks to benefit gamers and pro audio folks.

Leonard · 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Peder Rice:
That KBase article does not say that the new PowerMacs will not run OS 9, it simply says that they will not boot with it (probably suggesting that OS 9 is not included).

Yes, but the XLR8 thread said he booted from MacOS 9.

If you simply wanted to run MacOS 9, you can do that by starting up classic, and we wouldn't be having this debate. But all the big hoopla is about the new Macs being able to boot into MacOS 9. Which according to the Apple Kbase article is not possible.

And what this XLR8 thread describes is no "backdoor" solution. It is simply installing MacOS 9 on a separate partition.

Apple Pro Underwear · Feb 17, 2003, 10:58 AM

i think we can guess that it might work now but it's getting harder and harder and may evaporate with no warning (besides the one they already made)

in the next revision or in the next 4 weeks, they may actually stop all support for os9 and even installing in a partition may not work

they warned you already, so dont be suprprised if you get a new mac and try this and it doesn't work

schalliol · Feb 17, 2003, 11:07 AM

Yeah, you can't assume that any unit that currently allows booting to 9 will work if you order another. However, it's highly unlikely that if one works that others of the same type won't until another rev.

Nep2ne · Mar 3, 2003, 06:47 PM

Has anyone confirmed this yet on these forums? I'm very intrigued as to what repercussions, if any, exist in regards to the newer hardware (FW800, Bluetooth, etc.)...

goMac · Mar 3, 2003, 07:22 PM

Someone in this forum already tried it (didn't keep the link) and it did not work. From what I read some site picked this up somewhere as a solution when it was given as a solution for installing OS 9 without running the full software restore. The new macs have a BootROM that does not recognize OS 9 at all.

Cory Bauer · Mar 6, 2003, 06:53 PM

All I know is that if you go into the Startup Disk Preference panel in the System Preferences, you won't see OS 9 available as a startup disk - I checked this out on a new 1Ghz iMac.

But people, I think it would be in everyone's best interest to stop using OS 9, or trying to find ways to use OS 9 instead of OS X. If you have products that don't yet support OS X, then for the love of all that is savvy stop using that product and use an alternative that does run in OS X. I'm looking at you, Quark users...

Do you seriously want to use an Operating system that doesn't let you do anything while it's launching an application? Do you really want to sit there and watch the progress bar in Photoshop or Final Cut Pro or would you prefer being able to go type some e-mails while your film is rendering or your Photoshop document is rasterizing, or what have you.

Booting a Dual 1.42Ghz Powermac into OS 9 is like putting a legless man on a bicycle.

Blanchard · Mar 9, 2003, 06:57 PM

I've tried the two methods suggested in the xlr8 thread on a fw800 1.25 g, and the OS 9 folder never appeared in the startup disk preferences. I just couldn't boot in OS 9 on that Mac (it's not mine, it's for a professor who uses it for Entourage and Word, and he's fearful of switching to OS X).

I was curious to see the speed of OS 9 on that monster. Well. sp much for that, but OS X is starting to feel fast with a Dual 1.25 anyways. (OS 9 still feels snappier on my Yikes 400 that X on the Dual... he he anyone agrees?)

andreas_g4 · Apr 2, 2003, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Blanchard:
(OS 9 still feels snappier on my Yikes 400 that X on the Dual... he he anyone agrees?)

osiris · Apr 2, 2003, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Blanchard:

I was curious to see the speed of OS 9 on that monster. Well. sp much for that, but OS X is starting to feel fast with a Dual 1.25 anyways. (OS 9 still feels snappier on my Yikes 400 that X on the Dual... he he anyone agrees?)

Heck yeah - I spent a couple of hours at the Apple Store pissing myself off. My old G4 400 with OS 9 feels much faster than the newest offerings running X. Every aspect of doing anything feels molassess slow under X - there's no 'instant snappiness' - everything seems like a chore + Photoshop shouldn't take 25s to launch on a flagship machine.

But I do love the multi-tasking.

Maybe the G5s will speed things up?

vsurfer · Apr 2, 2003, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Cory Bauer:
All I know is that if you go into the Startup Disk Preference panel in the System Preferences, you won't see OS 9 available as a startup disk - I checked this out on a new 1Ghz iMac.

After partitioning with OSX disk utility, I've tried installing OS9 on a separate partition, mostly for the hell of it, on my 1 ghz TiBook to no avail.

On the other hand, I was able to boot directly, yes directly, into OS9.2.2 (classic installation) on the same partition as X, using the startup disk panel OS 9.2 system folder (that otherwise functions as classic in OSX - that is when when booted up in OSX).

The bummer is that I can't get airport to work when I boot up into OS9.

I have another partition reserved for Linux, will let you know how that goes in due course.

I just like messing with other OS from time to time--but use OSX 90% of the time.

Cory Bauer · Apr 2, 2003, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by osiris:
My old G4 400 with OS 9 feels much faster than the newest offerings running X. Every aspect of doing anything feels molassess slow under X - there's no 'instant snappiness' - everything seems like a chore + Photoshop shouldn't take 25s to launch on a flagship machine.

Are you kidding? Seriously, try letting Adobe After Effects Render in the background while you jump between Photoshop, DVD Studio Pro, and Final Cut Pro, working extensively in all of them at the same time on your G4 400 with OS 9 - let me know how it goes. I do this daily on a single processor 1Ghz G4 running OS X, and although I can certainly feel a performance hit, the point is I can comfortably continue working on other projects while applications do their thing. On a Dual Processor Power mac of 800Mhz or greater, I honestly cannot even feel a performance hit if After Effects is rendering in the background or QuickTime is exporting an MPEG2 file. The impact using OS 9 would have on my daily workflow is mind-boggling. If I was exporting an MPEG2 file in QuickTime, that's all I'd be doing. Just sitting there, watching the progress bar...the same goes for Rendering in Final Cut Pro, and I imagine it's the same for Adobe After Effects. Adobe Photoshop doesn't take 25 seconds to launch on any Mac made in the last four years, either, unless you're hard up for free RAM. Cripes, OS 9 can't even run Software Update without quitting all applications, including the Finder, so you can watch the downloading and installing progress bar while you sip your coffee. I haven't even mentioned the RAM leaks associated with OS 9. I was using one of those "Yikes" G4's not too long ago, running OS 9.2.2, and with virtual memory turned off I had a 200MB memory leak within half an hour, causing me to be unable to have more than one Adobe Application open at the same time. With Virtual memory turned on, Photoshop would freeze the computer upon launch. Half an hour after that, I had erased the Hard Drive, installed OS X, and was multitasking my way to a productive workday.

Find me a Windows user who says, "Yeah, I use Windows XP 90% of the day but I'm just not comfortable with it yet so I enjoy dual booting back to Windows 95 for some of my work". Just think about it, would ya?

Simon · Apr 2, 2003, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Cory Bauer:
Are you kidding?

He was...

Cory Bauer · Apr 2, 2003, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by Simon:
He was...

*whew* well that's a relief!

PB2K · Apr 3, 2003, 01:02 AM

TRIED IT YESTERDAY : WORKS FINE

I Isolated OS9 from the restorecd. Though I can't get it into my local language (Dutch), It runs great from it's own OS9 partition

Leonard · Apr 3, 2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by PB2K:
TRIED IT YESTERDAY : WORKS FINE

I Isolated OS9 from the restorecd. Though I can't get it into my local language (Dutch), It runs great from it's own OS9 partition

Tried what yesterday?

You cannot boot MacOS 9 on a FW800 Mac using the instruction in this thread.

You can install MacOS 9 from the restore CD and use it for the classic environment.