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fromthecloud · Mar 14, 2003, 01:47 AM

I've always been having stability problems with my G4 tower ever since I recieved it (July '02). I have at least 2 to 3 hard freezes and/or kernel panics a day.

My system is:

Dual G4 1GHz
1 GB RAM (More later...)
GeForce4MX
80 GB HD
SuperDrive
OS 10.2.4 (Fresh install 3 days ago)

My inclination is that this is a memory problem. In order to determine if one of my two 512 chips are bad, I ran the system for a day each with only one of them installed. During that period I had no system crashes, panics, or freezes. I decided to re-install both of them but in different positions (i.e. slot 1 and 3 rather than 1 and 2). I immediately had a crash/freeze within five minutes of starting up. I just pulled one of the chips and am running with only 512 just fine. I have recently completely reformatted my hard drive and installed a fresh copy of 10.2.4. For some reason, my system is unstable only when both memory chips are installed. I would really like to have my 1 GB...it makes a significant speed difference.

Thank you for any help.

JB72 · Mar 14, 2003, 10:29 PM

For some reason, my system is unstable only when both memory chips are installed. I would really like to have my 1 GB...it makes a significant speed difference.

"I feel your pain."

I had similar problems with my MDD and 2x512 Extreme XMS (Corsair) RAM. I replaced them with a single 512 Crucial and everything has been rock solid. I'm hoping the problems won't return when I go with another 512 of Crucial. I thought I solved the problem, but maybe it has more to do with the amount of memory installed. On the other hand, you might just be facing a small memory glitch that gets vastly exacerbated when two of the chips are in. We'll have to wait and see.

Well at least I can be happy that the thing is at least usable for now. I did a ton of clean installs for a while, desperately hoping, and it's just now that I can actually start to "live" on this computer, customize it and such, w/o worry that I'll have to start over again soon (*knock on wood*.)

Best of luck, and hang in there.

fromthecloud · Mar 14, 2003, 11:15 PM

I went to talk to the local Mac Genius today, and he gave me some suggestions...

1) RAM - Use the hardware test CD on Extended Test with the Looping mode on (Ctrl-L). Try to cause some problems with different configs. There's a remote chance of a bad slot on the logic board.

2) Processor - One processor could be bad (He said he's seen a decent number of DP machines that have had problems with kernel panics and that has been the problem.)

If nothing shows up on the memory tests, then he told me to bring my tower in for them to dissect (I'm still under warranty, thank god).

I did a ton of clean installs for a while, desperately hoping, and it's just now that I can actually start to "live" on this computer, customize it and such, w/o worry that I'll have to start over again soon (*knock on wood*.)

I hear ya. And I'll post anything if this little ordeal get's fixed.

JB72 · Mar 15, 2003, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by fromthecloud:
I went to talk to the local Mac Genius today, and he gave me some suggestions...

1) RAM - Use the hardware test CD on Extended Test with the Looping mode on (Ctrl-L). Try to cause some problems with different configs. There's a remote chance of a bad slot on the logic board.

2) Processor - One processor could be bad (He said he's seen a decent number of DP machines that have had problems with kernel panics and that has been the problem.)

If nothing shows up on the memory tests, then he told me to bring my tower in for them to dissect (I'm still under warranty, thank god).

I didn't know about the Ctrl-L option. That's good to know. The standard RAM hardware test seems to be too liberal in what it passes in the DDR PMs.

I'm hoping that we're just looking at an incompatiable RAM problem here. That's pretty easy to solve. I'm going to try to get another 512 Crucial asap so I'll know what the ultimate prognosis is before my warranty runs out. In the mean time I should CCC, since I'm now sure it's not a software problem. And I geuss I can stop running permission repair and fsck so frequently too.

JB72 · Mar 18, 2003, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by JB72:
I'm going to try to get another 512 Crucial asap so I'll know what the ultimate prognosis is before my warranty runs out.

Update: I just popped in another Crucial 512mb, so I'm up to 1024. I'll get to see if my problem runs deeper than just liking particular types of RAM (ie bad slot or CPU that shows up with more than one memory module installed.) *fingers crossed for MDD stability.*

{oddly, this new module is Samsung, while I believe the first Crucial chip I installed was Mits. Hrmmm...}

JB72 · Mar 19, 2003, 05:45 PM

Well, I've put in a few hours use with the new Crucial module over the last 24 hours and no KP or other problems yet (*knock on wood.*)

I have to hand it to Crucial, they really made me a happy MDD user. Other brands will do sometimes, but after this experience I'm not willing to take any chances.

It's like a totally different machine. Stable, fun, and now I'm actually getting to customize everything. Just being able to use it w/o fear of crashng is brilliant.

my buddy

DamnDJ · Mar 19, 2003, 08:40 PM

I too have been having a lot of stability problems with my new PowerMac, although it's a Dual 1.25.

Everything was running good for a few days running 10.2.3. I decided to upgrade to 10.2.4 then I started running into probles.

After having my computer running for a good number of hours, Applications would become unstable, crash, and give me spinning rainbows. Rebooting would fix the issue, at least for several more hours. I experienced maybe two or three kernel panics over the course of 3 weeks.

I then decided to re-install the OS fresh with a complete wipe of my hard drive. Everything ran okay for about two days, although I did have one kernel panic in there. My network prefs then became completely corrupt and I could do nothing to get back online. I deleted the location, made new ones, but it kept putting 255.255.255.255 for the IP address, gateways, subnets, etc. Nothing I could do would get rid of this, get back my DHCP assigned IP address, nothing.

So I reinstalled again about two nights ago. Things have been working okay again, but about 10 minutes ago I had a kernel panic when my machine was bascially doing nothing. I had Camino, terminal, system prefs, and Acquizion open.

So I don't know what's going on here. I bought 512MB Crucial memory when I ordered my mac. I used their little "flowchart" to pick the memory that they recommended for this mac. I have a couple of sticks of 2100DDR Corsair memory in my PC which I may borrow and use in my mac to see if there's any way to clear this stability problem up.

I want to love the machine and for the most part I do... but it's kind of disheartining to have more stability problems in 1 month than I've ever had on my PC's XP machine.

JB72 · Mar 20, 2003, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by DamnDJ:
I want to love the machine and for the most part I do... but it's kind of disheartining to have more stability problems in 1 month than I've ever had on my PC's XP machine.

One thing I might try if I were you would be to install the 10.2.4 combo update, if you haven't done so already. And of course repair permissions and zap the PRAM a few times. Then see if the stability problems have lessened any.

DamnDJ · Mar 21, 2003, 05:58 PM

Thanks for the information..

I actually had installed the 10.2.4 combo upgrade but it didn't seem to make a difference. I try to repair the permissions once in awhile but haven't tried zapping the PRAM yet.

Since posting my previous message, everything has been working pretty well. Hope it stays that way. I am going to remain on 10.2.3 until Panther comes out.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it (i guess).

DDJ

Originally posted by JB72:
One thing I might try if I were you would be to install the 10.2.4 combo update, if you haven't done so already. And of course repair permissions and zap the PRAM a few times. Then see if the stability problems have lessened any.

DamnDJ · Mar 22, 2003, 11:07 AM

Well I spoke way too soon.

Everything was working smooth and fine last night. I was having no issues.

Went to bed with the machine turned on.. it was not sleeping, I did not have any screen savers on, do not have Spin Down hard drives selected and when I woke up this morning, tried to open Mail.app, I got the Application has quit.

I rebooted the computer and upon rebooting, my dock would appear, the menu bar would appear, the dock would re-launch, then the menu bar would re-launch and it kept going back and forth like this until I had to pull the plug on the computer. Rebooted and it did the same thing. I couldn't do anything..

So I reinstalled once again.

I am ready to throw this thing out of the window; it's making me so very angry. If this crap keeps up, I am going to sell this lemon on Ebay and suck up the loss I'll take on the cost of the machine.

This is B.S.

gfourdoor · Mar 22, 2003, 07:25 PM

If you purchased a G4 dual 1GHz between July - August 2002, that's when the greatest number of problem machines were distributed.

Mine had problems from the day I got it home. Apple took care of replacing the original RAM and logic board fairly quickly. It took three trips to the service department to get all the bugs worked out, however.

Now I'm waiting to get the fan kit so I don't have to wear earplugs while using my computer!

JB72 · Mar 22, 2003, 08:49 PM

DamnDJ Don't give up hope yet. I know exactly what you are going through. You want to believe that a particular OS release will fix it.

It sounds like RAM problems to me, which is odd with crucial. I would send the RAM back to Crucial, or take the machine bck to where you bought it ASAP. It's a pain but you'll feel much better after it's fixed. It's really quite a machine.

Now I'm waiting to get the fan kit so I don't have to wear earplugs while using my computer

The horrid noise didn't bother me a for a while because I was so distracted by the instability. Now that the thing is cruising along nicely (still no KP, sleep, or app issues) I'm sane enough to hear, and be bothered by the noise again.

I'm patient and hopeful that this guy will someday run at a reasonable noise level, provided I'm willing to put some effort in.

*prays for those still suffering with MDD issues, in and out of these forums*

bsharp · Mar 23, 2003, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by DamnDJ:
Well I spoke way too soon...

I am ready to throw this thing out of the window; it's making me so very angry. If this crap keeps up, I am going to sell this lemon on Ebay and suck up the loss I'll take on the cost of the machine.

This is B.S.

I, too, had crashing problems with my 1 Ghz PowerMac (MDD). In fact, I think we bought ours about the same time in the same store (we both are from Atlanta).

I was having never-ending beachballs, kernal panics and system freezes 3 or 4 times a day, since I brought the machine home last summer. I finally had a motherboard swap, and have had about 2 crashes in the month + since.

My original motherboard part number (found beneath the modem) was 820-1308. I had read that people were having problems with this board, so I requested a swap.

My new board part number is 820-1476-A. I think it's even a different color. A board swap really made the difference for me.

Now, if I can only get that power supply upgrade...

DamnDJ · Mar 24, 2003, 11:38 PM

Thanks for the comments.

I've had the Crucial RAM out for about 2 days now, using only the memory that came with the machine, and came home to a kernel panic tonight.

Maybe I am being a little too b***hy about all this, but I don't think it's right to have a kernel panic every other day.

Unfortunately I don't know what else to do. Maybe just pray it will stop.

This is a Dual 1.25, FW800, nothing plugged in except mouse, keyboard, and standard 256 MB remory. Hm, I haven't swapped out the memory that came with the machine. Maybe I'll try that.

Originally posted by JB72:
DamnDJ Don't give up hope yet. I know exactly what you are going through. You want to believe that a particular OS release will fix it.

It sounds like RAM problems to me, which is odd with crucial. I would send the RAM back to Crucial, or take the machine bck to where you bought it ASAP. It's a pain but you'll feel much better after it's fixed. It's really quite a machine.

The horrid noise didn't bother me a for a while because I was so distracted by the instability. Now that the thing is cruising along nicely (still no KP, sleep, or app issues) I'm sane enough to hear, and be bothered by the noise again. I'm patient and hopeful that this guy will someday run at a reasonable noise level, provided I'm willing to put some effort in.

*prays for those still suffering with MDD issues, in and out of these forums*

DamnDJ · Mar 25, 2003, 01:15 AM

Well I swapped out the "default" ram with the stick of Crucial and we'll see how that goes.

I did notice something, however. The slot the RAM was in was right next to the CPU's heatsink. When I removed the RAM, I noticed it was *very* hot. I wonder if this could be a problem? I placed the new RAM on the other side, furthest from the heatsink.

I must say the motherboard in the Dual FW800 is the worst motherboard design I've ever seen. Having the RAM slots between the CPU's heatsink and the AGP slot is terrible placement. On one end of the RAM section you have the heatsink almost kissing the RAM and on the otherside you have it very close to the video card which also lets off some heat.

*shrug*

porieux · Mar 27, 2003, 09:05 PM

Wow, I just found this thread. I've been having the same experience since about the end of February with my MDD dual-867. Kernel Panics and just plain freezes, sometimes as often as once a day.

My G4 was bought in December at an Apple Store, and I had just added a Crucial 512MB DIMM around the same time the freezes/KPs started (late Feb.) I also installed the new MOTU PCI-324 drivers at that time, and I think the 10.2.4 upgrade was around then too wasn't it?

My first freeze was right after installing the MOTU drivers, so after a few more at that time I uninstalled them. After the crashing continued and FSCK/PRAM zap didn't help I did the Archive & Install and the combo update. Still got freezes.

That's when I remembered to test the RAM, so I did the Hardware Test CD, which passed fine (didn't know about command-L, going to have to try that). I removed the Crucial RAM anyway but now I've still had a couple of freezes.

Very frustrating isn't it? I know how stable OSX can be which makes it all the more maddening.

Thanks for all your posts.

porieux · Mar 27, 2003, 09:09 PM

JB72, was what solved your problem replacing the stock Apple-supplied RAM with Crucial? If so did Apple replace the bad RAM? Or did you replace your original Crucial stick with a new one?

spcargt · Mar 28, 2003, 10:05 AM

I've been having similar problems as well. I purchased my MDD Dual-867 in December up in Atlanta. It worked beautifully with 512mb ram (2x256mb) for about a month. Then, I began to get the kernel panics, beachballs, hanging applications, not booting up, not logging off, etc, etc.

I made a few calls to AppleCare and even brought the machine over to the Apple Certified Repair Rep., or whatever his official name is

, on campus. After having the machine for well over 3 weeks, he hadn't found the problem. Needless to say, I wish I hadn't been lazy because there's an Apple store 30min from campus. So just two days ago I took back my machine, tried to fix it that night (which didn't work). The next day, I brought it to the Apple store and it's there now. I'll post here when I found out what's up with it but I definately believe it's either the logic board or one of the processors.

I tried swapping memory without any luck.

Interestingly enough, it was somewhat stable with just one stick of 256mb instead of two 256mb sticks.

Frustrating to say the least, but I know it's worth it. I've had to use my PC while my baby's been away and for the short time I had the machine before I brought it to the Apple Store, I absolutely loved it. Even with the kernel panics and instability.

JB72 · Mar 30, 2003, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by porieux:
JB72, was what solved your problem replacing the stock Apple-supplied RAM with Crucial? If so did Apple replace the bad RAM? Or did you replace your original Crucial stick with a new one?

My success came after switching out my Corsair XMS RAM that I added with Crucial RAM. I'm not even sure if my MDD was stable with the 256 that came with it.

I've had the Crucial (512x2) for a month now and only one panic, which was USB related. It's been really nice. I can't wait for my replacement power supply to get here.

I also had problems early with my GeForce4 Ti, which decided to stop working one day. Brought it to the Apple Store where they put in a new one.

The only other oddity I'm still experiencing is the occasional USB weirdness (ex: the favorites in IE auto double-click.) I still can't find the source of that. Hrrmmm...

fromthecloud · Mar 30, 2003, 08:03 PM

After remaining on one 512 stick of RAM since my post began, I have had no crashes whatsoever (except for the occasional "This application has unexpectedly quit" but that's the program's fault and no the OS).

Just FYI...I'm currently at school, and not close to an Apple Store, so I'll be running this way for a while until I go home for another break.

spcargt · Apr 1, 2003, 10:44 PM

Got my MDD back from the apple store. They had it for only a few days and replaced one of the processors and the logic board. Everything is running fine now, no lockups or crashes. Same ram from before.

Mac Zealot · Apr 1, 2003, 11:09 PM

I have a dual 800 quicksilver and to be honest, I thought my problems were over and was enjoying a 10 day uptime...

The system was a little wobbly as the windowmanager crashed a few times and top/processviewer/several other small monitors would not work AT ALL and would just freeze... this shoulda been an indication something was going on but meh.

Then my computer was freaking out, I reinstalled the OS, pram-resetted, and installed the OS again, now it kernel panicks every 12 hours or so

:grumble: I have this strong feeling it's the graphics card as before it was replaced I never had this problem, apple customer/exec relations got my request for replacing the machine and I checked tonight after the call to find the case was closed (this means they won't replace the computer), and I expect a call at 7am tommorow from some jerk who will tell me under no circumstances they'll replace my mahcine even though I've been begging for them to do that for over a year now.

Damn this computer has been nothing but problems from the start *sigh* and they seem to be nothing but faceless ***holes about it.

I wish you the best of luck, and hopefully I'll get some things in my g4 replaced or something but this is giving me a bloody headache and it's been 1.6 years or so now since I bought the damn macchine and all the time I've had some stupid problem.

Problem is I'll never be able to sell it, it looks like frankenstein **** with graphite side panels, a cracked handle, and the door doesn't close right, and the machine doesnt' even work right!

GRRRRRRRR!!! THIS IS FOR YOU APPLE SUPPORT!!!!

**** YOU *******S!!!!!!!

Mac Zealot · Apr 1, 2003, 11:12 PM

Ya know, it's one thing to buy a dell, it's another to buy an APPLE COMPUTER.

This is just a fine indication of their quality. Tons of reject powerbooks, dozens of lousy underspecced displays, many cases of fraud, many cases of perjury, and many cases of harassment.

I swear there's a few reasons why apple only has a 3% marketshare and their customer relations is one of the biggest problems.

Apple CR is worse than DELL, MICROSOFT, and WAL-MART combined.

SSharon · Apr 1, 2003, 11:24 PM

I have a DP 1ghz that I got when school started in early september and it ran fine for a month before stability problems and KP's but they were limited to when I tried connecting to PC's via SMB. I got 10.2.4 and had the same problem then got the combo update and things have been fine since then. I also got an extra 512 chip put in when I got the machine and haven't noticed any problems with it (I have no idea who makes it). The point is, well I don't know what the point is b/c I still get KP's once in a while when I try the SMB stuff, but hang in there, bother apple to fix everything while its under warranty and all will be well.