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Patcarla · Mar 25, 2003, 06:59 AM

You should check out the latest rumor on Macbidouille.com. If it's true this very exciting..

to sum up:
at WWDC, Apple will anounce machines with PPC 970. 3 models
MP 1.3ghz
MP 1.8 ghz
DP 2.3 ghz
These computers will be available for order at Apple store the same day!!
here is a google translation of the complete article:

"If you do not want to read rumours, go your way. But you will miss an occasion to feel a exaltation that the mac world did not see years since!
APPLE shifted well the dates of the WWDC because of the PPC 970. The new machines there will be presented and will be even in pr�commande at this time there.
The machines will be also present on AppleStore as of their advertisement, but with delivery periods from 6 to 8 weeks.
There will be 3 configurations suggested:
- mono 1,4 GHz
- mono 1,8 GHz
- A Bi 2,3 GHz. For this last, the mother chart is not yet completely finalized but should be it during the first week of April. The contractor who will have gained the invitation to tender on the mother chart single processor will manufacture also the chart biprocessor.
Thus note that there will be 2 versions of mother charts, which was foreseeable since the processor on a chart girl but is not directly posed via a ZIF on the mother chart.
Benchmarks were made on the new machines.
I acknowledge being extr�mement excited by all these annonces/rumeurs.
Return amounts! We finally will have what to fight against the Wintel world. Because let us not mislead there we. The fate of APPLE is in the center of all our concerns!
[ M�J ] This update relates to the benchmarks.
After discussions with the members of the TEAM Macbidouille, we decided to us autocensurer on the figures of the benchmarks.
For the first time, we had the impression of too in knowing.
It is in our opinion well too early to show them.
We hope that you will include/understand our decision.
PS: Useless to require of us by mall to know some more"

Macbidouille is a pretty good rumor site. They're usually right...
If you need a better translation, let me know and I'll do it later.

Sounds good

Superchicken · Mar 25, 2003, 10:02 AM

Uhh... If we're getting the PPC 970s at the WWDC... then uhh... huh? The WWDC is all about Software that's when they'll preveiw software, that's panther's spot light time. Last year we got the Xserve but that's different. Unless the PPC 970 is appearling in Xserves.

Nonsuch · Mar 25, 2003, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Uhh... If we're getting the PPC 970s at the WWDC... then uhh... huh? The WWDC is all about Software that's when they'll preveiw software, that's panther's spot light time. Last year we got the Xserve but that's different. Unless the PPC 970 is appearling in Xserves.

They debuted one of the PowerBooks at WWDC as well (can't remember which). Moreover, they're plainly maneuvering to take the spotlight off MWNY (this year's conference will be much smaller than in years past), so we may well see hardware announcements start to come out of WWDC.

Besides, the 970 is very much of interest to developers as well as to us consumers.

-Q- · Mar 25, 2003, 10:12 AM

They announced the Dual USB iBook at or near WWDC a couple years ago also. It wouldn't be unheard of to introduce new product. Guess I should accelerate my savings plan for the new machine...

Patcarla · Mar 25, 2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Uhh... If we're getting the PPC 970s at the WWDC... then uhh... huh? The WWDC is all about Software that's when they'll preveiw software, that's panther's spot light time. Last year we got the Xserve but that's different. Unless the PPC 970 is appearling in Xserves.

It's seems that Apple is moving out from the Macworld expos. From what I read, SJ won't even give a keynote at MWNY..So it's not completely irrelevant to think that they might be annoucing the "big thing" at WWDC.

Nonsuch · Mar 25, 2003, 10:43 AM

Picked this up on AI; they appear to be the bench scores that MacBidouille self-censored:

SPEC2000 int-fp per CPU nota bene
PowerPC 970 Macs -
DP 2.3GHz 1195--1343
SP 1.8 GHz 937--1051
SP1.4GHz 739--817

MOT G4 does:
@ 1.4 GHz 418--248
and
Pentium IV
@ 3.06 GHz 1032--1092

FWIW.

MindFad · Mar 25, 2003, 11:03 AM

Jeez, didn't the dual 1.43s just come out? Not that I wouldn't mind 970s.

Though I'd wish them to go dual all across the board, and put singles in the iMacs. Ideally, in my dreams, of course.

proux · Mar 25, 2003, 11:09 AM

The spec for the dual 2.3 should actually be double the given number, faster than a dual 3Ghz P4, whao. My credit card is ready. Then we will see is Mac application can hold their own vs PC ones.

proux · Mar 25, 2003, 11:11 AM

The dual 2.3Ghz would be 2 month to ship after the announcement, far enough from the dual 1.42 G4.

Nonsuch · Mar 25, 2003, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by proux:
The spec for the dual 2.3 should actually be double the given number, faster than a dual 3Ghz P4, whao.

The score is given as "per CPU," so the benchmark is accurate.

scottiB · Mar 25, 2003, 11:21 AM

Those SPEC 'marks don't figure Alti-Vec into them (and never have), so velocity-engine tuned apps will be goosed, as well.

Patcarla · Mar 25, 2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by scottiB:
Those SPEC 'marks don't figure Alti-Vec into them (and never have), so velocity-engine tuned apps will be goosed, as well.

Future looks bright!!!

proux · Mar 25, 2003, 11:31 AM

They *HAVE* to release them soon, too much talk, it will hurt the sales too much.

Sry got too excited didn't see about the per CPU rate...

Patcarla · Mar 25, 2003, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by proux:
They *HAVE* to release them soon, too much talk, it will hurt the sales too much.

Sry got too excited didn't see about the per CPU rate...

Yep..I'm wondering what are the Powermacs sales right now...

Superchicken · Mar 25, 2003, 12:00 PM

Hmmm who put son the WWDC?

Cause I know IDG puts on MWNY... I mean if it happens that's great, I just mean don't get your hopes up. I know last year they introed the iBook and Power Book revs right around the WWDC... honestly I'm kinda wondering when we're gona get a new iBook case more than anything.

Catfish_Man · Mar 25, 2003, 12:14 PM

I seriously doubt the timing, but the clock frequencies are fairly reasonable (although I don't think the 2.3GHz one will be around for a while yet, see below). IBM has announced the 970 being released in the second half of 2003, so it would have to be a paper launch. Also, fairly reliable sources have said that .13 micron 970s over 1.8GHz would be the second revision. This makes a lot of sense, because the POWER4+ (which the 970 shares its core with) has only scaled to 1.45GHz so far. The 350MHz boost is easily explained by the decreased reliability requirements, but 850MHz (1.45->2.3) seems a bit extreme without some pretty serious tweaking. I hope I'm wrong though.

I'm slightly annoyed about WWDC becoming "the new MacWorld". It's supposed to be a developer conference. The only excuse I can see for it is if they're introducing their 64 bit tools and OS at WWDC (which seems reasonable) and want to have the processors available to run them on.

gizzard · Mar 25, 2003, 12:44 PM

I call BS.

Even if it were true, a 6-8 week ship time? That would completely cannibalize current Power Mac sales which would be horrible for Apple's quarterly results. Not to mention the overstock of G4s that would result from it.

aaanorton · Mar 25, 2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Catfish_Man:
I'm slightly annoyed about WWDC becoming "the new MacWorld". It's supposed to be a developer conference. The only excuse I can see for it is if they're introducing their 64 bit tools and OS at WWDC (which seems reasonable) and want to have the processors available to run them on.

I'm completely FOR Apple getting away from the "Macworld 2x/yr=new Mac release" model. This is just silly. I'd much prefer Apple release things as they become available. If there is a major release that warrants a trade show keynote, then go with whichever one is handy (or in this case, can be MADE handy).

Originally posted by gizzard:
Even if it were true, a 6-8 week ship time? That would completely cannibalize current Power Mac sales which would be horrible for Apple's quarterly results.

What sales?

Nonsuch · Mar 25, 2003, 01:22 PM

Assuming this is true, Apple has a lot of time--a good two months--to thin the channel of remaining PowerMac inventory. If they don't sell on their own, another price cut should help move things along; plenty of schools and businesses would buy them.

A premature announcement might freeze PowerMac sales, but it might also do a lot for Apple's stock price--investors would finally know Apple's plans for closing the performance gap. It might be worth a sales dip, particularly if they have another new product (say a rev'd iBook/Mac or a new DLD) to take up the slack.

superfula · Mar 25, 2003, 01:40 PM

Will. Not. Happen. I don't see how anyone can think any 970 macs will be out this year. For one, IBM has said 970 production will start late second quarter-August time frame. So probably June at the earliest. Once production starts, figure in at least 3-4 months before any 970's hit the streets or Apple.

Apple will not announce new macs the very second they get new processors in the door. Figure in at least 3-4 months from when they get the 970 in the door to any announcement of releases. Gotta have time to fab, build, and get stock before anything is announced.

Best case scenario, Apple will be ready to go in December 03, but won't announce anything until Jan 04 at MW.

Then you have to take into account that Apple may put the 970 in xserves first, THEN put them in pmacs a couple months later.

milhouse · Mar 25, 2003, 03:21 PM

The problem with putting the 970 in an Xserve and then in a Pro tower a few months later is that it would likely kill nearly all sales of the Pro line till it was refreshed.

IMHO a more likely scenario is that we'll see a simultaneous release.

It doesn't matter to me as long as I can buy one...soon.

Rickag · Mar 25, 2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by superfula:
Will. Not. Happen. I don't see how anyone can think any 970 macs will be out this year. For one, IBM has said 970 production will start late second quarter-August time frame. So probably June at the earliest. Once production starts, figure in at least 3-4 months before any 970's hit the streets or Apple.

Apple will not announce new macs the very second they get new processors in the door. Figure in at least 3-4 months from when they get the 970 in the door to any announcement of releases. Gotta have time to fab, build, and get stock before anything is announced.

Best case scenario, Apple will be ready to go in December 03, but won't announce anything until Jan 04 at MW.

Then you have to take into account that Apple may put the 970 in xserves first, THEN put them in pmacs a couple months later.

Some web news sites quoted IBM saying the 970 will be in production in the 2nd half 2003. But if you go to IBM's website and do a search for "PowerPC 970" the only press release listed says,"IBM plans to make the PowerPC 970 chip available next year."

Another press release dated 10/17/02 is listed but I only get an error message.

No quarters mentioned, not which half of the year, just,"IBM plans to make the PowerPC 970 chip available next year."

hmmmmm.

Nonsuch · Mar 25, 2003, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by superfula:
Then you have to take into account that Apple may put the 970 in xserves first, THEN put them in pmacs a couple months later.

I don't see why they would, for two reasons:

1) The PowerMac customers are the ones demanding the 970;

2) No server admin worth his salt is going to migrate his system to the first iteration of a new and untested technology.

DBvader · Mar 25, 2003, 04:55 PM

i dont see this happening this soon. they just released a new batch of powermacs, and i dont think that they are going to introduce new pms in that short of a time. also, there is too much of a performance gap between the top of the line and the bottom of the line. lastly, are you sure that they are gonna start off with dual proc systems? i know that the 970 is made for smp, but i would think that apple would release something more like this:

DP 1.8
DP 1.6
DP 1.4 (g4)
single 1.2

the reason i say this is becuase i couldnt see that dramatic a boost in MhZ. also, i thought that t hey wouldnt be able to push clock speeds that high with the .13 micron process.

DBvader · Mar 25, 2003, 05:02 PM

"Jeez, didn't the dual 1.43s just come out? Not that I wouldn't mind 970s. Though I'd wish them to go dual all across the board, and put singles in the iMacs. Ideally, in my dreams, of course. "

i agree, i think the powermacs should be dualies and the imacs be the single. right now, there shouold be a 1GhZ, 1.2 GhZ, and a 1.4 ghZ imac running GeForce4MX, ATI 9000, and ATI 9000. problem is, i dont know if the 9000 would fit in the imac case. im not sure why they didnt put faster procs in the imac...most computers now are 2.5 or so GhZ. no consumer would want a 1GhZ. dont feed me that moto chips are different than intels/amds. i have a dualie (867), and its slower than my Athlon 2000+, and less responsive.

what are those benchmarks for? i would think the dual 2.whatever would be a lot more faster than the 3.06...

Patcarla · Mar 25, 2003, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by DBvader:
i dont see this happening this soon. they just released a new batch of powermacs, and i dont think that they are going to introduce new pms in that short of a time.

yes but think about it: the new PM were announced last month and started being shipped 2 weeks ago. End of June (WWDC) is 3 months from now.The article stated New powermac with 970 will ship 6-8 weeks after. So that would mean a total time frame of 5-6 month between the 2 rev...IMHO that's not too short..

proux · Mar 25, 2003, 05:59 PM

Well even if the IBM based Powermacs were to be released at MWSF, there must be an update before, August timeframe. Well there is so much talk about the IBM processors that should be DEMOED at WWDC that no one will want to buy that upgrade. A 1.6Ghz G4? big yaaahn even with full DDR support that would require a new mobo by the way, and Apple doesn't release 2 mobo in less than a year because it costs too much.

I think that if they show IBM processors at WWDC, they can't wait 7 months to release them, that would be suicide. Also don't forget that it impacts not only Powermac sales but also all the other products. I don't think I am alone wanting to buy a 15' or 17' powerbook but with IBM processors. They shouldn't be too far from the Powermac IBM based, Powerbook sales will suffer big time in that transition period. The IBM chip is said to use low power so that is why it shouldn't be hard to put it in a Powerbook.

iMacs and iBooks are a different story, they could hold out longer with fast G4 with full L3 cache.

proux · Mar 25, 2003, 06:37 PM

P4 at 3Ghz is about as fast as a 2Ghz IBM PowerPC. P4 should reach 4 Ghz by year end. Do you really think Apple can wait next year? A dual 1.6Ghz would be about as fast as a single 2.5Ghz P4 in dual processor aware application!
The IBM chip at 2.3Ghz next year would just close the gap on P4, Apple needs more than that.

hmurchison2001 · Mar 25, 2003, 07:13 PM

Once production starts, figure in at least 3-4 months before any 970's hit the streets or Apple.

3-4 months?? What do you think they're doing putting Macs together in a bottle? Remember Apple attempts to purchase items Just In Time. You don't have manf efficiency by taking 3-4 months to assemple a computer even if it's a first run. Volume production means IBM ships you your chips and you put the computers together and sell them.

he reason i say this is becuase i couldnt see that dramatic a boost in MhZ. also, i thought that t hey wouldnt be able to push clock speeds that high with the .13 micron process.

You do realize that the PPC 970 has twice the pipline stages of the G4+. If Moto can hit 1.42 at .18um then IBM hitting 2.3Ghz at .13um with 15 or more pipes is not a stretch of the imagination in any way shape or form.

P4 at 3Ghz is about as fast as a 2Ghz IBM PowerPC. P4 should reach 4 Ghz by year end. Do you really think Apple can wait next year? A dual 1.6Ghz would be about as fast as a single 2.5Ghz P4 in dual processor aware application!
The IBM chip at 2.3Ghz next year would just close the gap on P4, Apple needs more than that.

The PPC 970 is "estimated" at SpecInt of 937 and Spec 1050. The P4 3.06Ghz is about 1050 and 1077 respectively so you're right. I don't think Intel will hit 4Ghz. I believe their roadmap has Prescott possibly reaching 3.6Ghz by years end(although I doubt they do). A Dual 1.6Ghz processor would be about the same speed as a P4 2.5Ghz PER PROCESSOR. There's no way in hell a P4 2.5 beats a Dual PPC 970. Remember the 2.5 is a 533Mhz FSB not 800.

Should Appel deliver a 2.3Ghz processor in Single or DP config it will most likely beat the P4 at that time and only lose to the AMD Opteron. We should all rejoice is we can eclipse 2Ghz AND run DP. You'd need a Xeon DP system to compete with that speed.

SalBaker · Mar 25, 2003, 07:34 PM

Apple would release the 970's 4 months after the latest Powermacs if they could. They know (for the most part) pro user aren't buying until the 970's come out. Once the 970's arrive we will see apple go back to a more "timely" update schedule.

voodoo · Mar 25, 2003, 09:13 PM

I heard that PPC 970 production was scheduled to start this month. March 2003.

superfula · Mar 25, 2003, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by hmurchison2001:
3-4 months?? What do you think they're doing putting Macs together in a bottle? Remember Apple attempts to purchase items Just In Time. You don't have manf efficiency by taking 3-4 months to assemple a computer even if it's a first run. Volume production means IBM ships you your chips and you put the computers together and sell them.

You do realize you quoted me saying it would take 3-4 months for IBM to get the processors out the door. Reread what I said.

But yes I also say it will take 3-4 months to build up any kind of stock and parts for Apple to sell.

You don't quite realize what exactly does into putting a computer together do you? I was being optimistic when I said 3-4 months

jwblase · Mar 25, 2003, 10:14 PM

I could see this new PM release happening for one reason mainly: Education customers. Education customers are rarely up on buying the new and latest.... My school's PO's are already being requested, with May as a due date, and the purchasing being done in June/July. Keep the updated PMs in line just long enough for the schools to buy them out, then introduce a new model.

The channels will be cleared, especially if this kind of strategy is used.

As for the WWDC being used as a developer conference... Well, new PMs along with a Panther preview are going to get plenty of interest from developers: hardware and software alike. I could see Apple making a huge deal of it... especially if they can get UNIX and other devs on the bandwagon.

JB

Eug · Mar 25, 2003, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by jwblase:
I could see this new PM release happening for one reason mainly: Education customers. Education customers are rarely up on buying the new and latest.... My school's PO's are already being requested, with May as a due date, and the purchasing being done in June/July. Keep the updated PMs in line just long enough for the schools to buy them out, then introduce a new model.

The channels will be cleared, especially if this kind of strategy is used.

As for the WWDC being used as a developer conference... Well, new PMs along with a Panther preview are going to get plenty of interest from developers: hardware and software alike. I could see Apple making a huge deal of it... especially if they can get UNIX and other devs on the bandwagon.

JB

Since when has Apple factored in Education budget year deadlines for timing of hardware releases? Although I suppose you could argue that it was the case with the late April release of the eMac. But that's about it.

gizzard · Mar 26, 2003, 12:11 AM

Some of you guys are way to gullible. Try to stick to reality, eh?

DrBoar · Mar 26, 2003, 03:44 AM

Apple is having bids for two 970 motherboards coming in, with the last day for offers two days from now. In my book this indicate that they at least intend to get the 970 PM out sooner than later

If the Motherboards start production 3 months from now we arrive at an intro of the 970 in the third quarter of 2003. A resonable time span and also into the aim of IBMs projected production of 970 AFAIK. For Apple any 970 at 1 Ghz or above will be way better than the current 1.42 G4. For marketing reasons I assume that they aim even higher.

Regarding G4 speed bumps. The last one was 170 MHz and the one before 250 MHz. A 1.6 to 1.7 GHz G4 would hardly exite anyone. While faster, they would not be dramatically faster than the curent one and the P4 would still beat them. If Apple gets faster G4 from Motorola and they are a drop in replacement they can jsut slip them in as a very low key event. Similar to how IBM introduced OS/2 for the power PC... very low key

Stuffing the piggy bank until the midrange is a dual 970

scottiB · Mar 26, 2003, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Since when has Apple factored in Education budget year deadlines for timing of hardware releases? Although I suppose you could argue that it was the case with the late April release of the eMac. But that's about it.

OT: The introduction of the dual-USB iBook and last year's spring refresh of that product occurred in May--I would assume for Education budget deadlines. I'd bet that a new refresh would be this May, too.

Eug · Mar 26, 2003, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by DrBoar:
Apple is having bids for two 970 motherboards coming in, with the last day for offers two days from now. In my book this indicate that they at least intend to get the 970 PM out sooner than later

If the Motherboards start production 3 months from now we arrive at an intro of the 970 in the third quarter of 2003. A resonable time span and also into the aim of IBMs projected production of 970 AFAIK. For Apple any 970 at 1 Ghz or above will be way better than the current 1.42 G4. For marketing reasons I assume that they aim even higher.

Where did you get this info?

Anyways, I think Q4 2003 is a reasonable estimate for shipping boxes.

Originally posted by scottiB:
OT: The introduction of the dual-USB iBook and last year's spring refresh of that product occurred in May--I would assume for Education budget deadlines. I'd bet that a new refresh would be this May, too.

So you're saying that they intentionally introduced the iBook after practical budget deadlines, to flush the inventory of their previous iBook parts?

With my eMac comment, that is what I was alluding, using the logic of the other poster.

However, it might make more sense that they did this to capture the fall back-to-school student market, and not so they could intentionally screw over people having to deal within the confines of academic budget deadlines.

I guess it also depends on what the budget timeline is. Around here the budgets have to be ready by April. Dunno about the local university.

Simon · Mar 26, 2003, 09:53 AM

First of all: No, I don't think this will happen.

Second: Yes, I'd love it to happen.

Third: If they have up to 2.3GHz available I'd prefer this PowerMac line-up: 1.8GHz, dual 1.8GHz, 2.3GHz, dual 2.3GHz. And for the Xserve just 2.3GHz and dual 2.3GHz. Leave the 1.4GHz for the iMac and the PowerBook.

And then imagine: Every PowerMac will be faster than the fastest P4s available. GREAT! That should bring us back those great ads like

Apple Computer would like to appologize for toasting the Pentium processor in public but the fact remains that the PowerPC G5 processor inside every new PowerMac G5 is up to twice as fast as the fastest P4 systems

I can't wait for Apple to start slapping Intel and PCs again. It's about time.

scottiB · Mar 26, 2003, 10:20 AM

Eug wrote:

So you're saying that they intentionally introduced the iBook after practical budget deadlines, to flush the inventory of their previous iBook parts?

With my eMac comment, that is what I was alluding, using the logic of the other poster.

However, it might make more sense that they did this to capture the fall back-to-school student market, and not so they could intentionally screw over people having to deal within the confines of academic budget deadlines.

Yeah, I meant the autumn school year (sorry about not being clearer--lack of coffee). I believe that American K-12 schools purchase computers for September the preceding June or thereabouts. Back when Apple would primarily release new products at MWNYs in July, many school purchasers were a bit peeved because they had just purchased older, slower models just a month earlier.

For this reason, I believe that's why Apple released the new iBook on May (5th, 2001--IIRC) at a special Apple Campus unveiling.

businezguy · Mar 26, 2003, 10:59 AM

The interesting thing about this thread is very few people are actually expecting a 970 release to happen next year. Most of you are agreeing on a 3rd quarter release.

With that said, I don't think this release is going to be a normal one. Apple just had to kill their profit margins with these most recent Powermacs. They just plain aren't fast enough!

They are going to release the 970 as soon as humanly possible, and they will offer it in Powermacs. It does not matter that the Dual 1.43 Ghz was released, this current lineup is probably the last offering before the 970.

With that said, I personally doubt Apple would offer the 970 in EVERY Powermac. There just wouldn't be enough processors immediately available. That's just my speculation.

I'd look for the high end model to carry the 970, and I would expect it to be a very expensive machine.

Patcarla · Mar 26, 2003, 11:30 AM

Not only IBM will provide Mac with CPU but also with GPU (well indirectly..

)
Check this out:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._ibm_nvidia_dc

Leonard · Mar 26, 2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by businezguy:
With that said, I personally doubt Apple would offer the 970 in EVERY Powermac. There just wouldn't be enough processors immediately available. That's just my speculation.

Seeing as IBM is going to use this chip themselves, I think there will be enough volume. To supply chips for 200,000 to 300,000 PowerMacs per quarter is a drop in the bucket for IBM. At the worst, some of the configurations, like the low-end will be single processor configs.

Commodus · Mar 26, 2003, 03:31 PM

This might be particularly good timing for Apple if they do ship PPC 970 systems sometime over the summer (although I'm suspicious of the 2.3 GHz claim).

Intel has been sitting on the P4 clock speeds for the past few months; I believe the 3.06 GHz P4 was introduced in November, and that's about as fast as it gets. Also, check out Intel's roadmap:

http://intel.com/products/roadmap/in...p&#desktop

Obviously the "or greater" part allows for faster CPUs to be introduced whenever Intel wants as much, but the roadmap says that they won't start into the year with anything faster than a 3.2 GHz P4. That gives Apple an opportunity to turn the tables, at least if they offer multi-processor systems or clock higher than 1.8 GHz (it depends on how the production 970s actually fare).

One more thing to help out in the debate over the validity of these rumours. IBM's December 2002 PowerPC newsletter has a segment on the PPC 970 that seems to narrow down the timetables: they say shipment in the second half of 2003, which would jibe with an announcement at WWDC in June. The clock speed only tops out at 1.8 GHz in that newsletter, but we'll see how it goes. Remember this: Apple is at 1.42 GHz with the G4 when Motorola's claimed speed tops out considerably lower. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple did the same with IBM's chips.

superfula · Mar 26, 2003, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Commodus:
One more thing to help out in the debate over the validity of these rumours. IBM's December 2002 PowerPC newsletter has a segment on the PPC 970 that seems to narrow down the timetables: they say shipment in the second half of 2003, which would jibe with an announcement at WWDC in June. The clock speed only tops out at 1.8 GHz in that newsletter, but we'll see how it goes. Remember this: Apple is at 1.42 GHz with the G4 when Motorola's claimed speed tops out considerably lower. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple did the same with IBM's chips.

That article says PRODUCTION starts in the second half of 2003. It says nothing about shipping.

"The PowerPC 970 is designed in IBM 0.13-micron CMOS silicon-on-insulator (SOI) technology and will be manufactured in IBM's new state-of-the-art 300-mm facility in East Fishkill, NY. Sampling is scheduled to begin in the second quarter of 2003 with production expected in the second half of 2003."

mikerally · Mar 26, 2003, 06:04 PM

I could see this new PM release happening for one reason mainly: Education customers. Education customers are rarely up on buying the new and latest.... My school's PO's are already being requested, with May as a due date, and the purchasing being done in June/July. Keep the updated PMs in line just long enough for the schools to buy them out, then introduce a new model.

There maybe a big rush to buy Macs in education this summer, as it will be the last opportunity for them to purchase Mac OS 9 booting machines.

Superchicken · Mar 26, 2003, 11:52 PM

The WWDC wouldn't be to close to the WWDC, not to mention... if apple takes pre orders for the Power Macs, saying that coustomers will be served in the order they preregister, they could rake in a whole lota cash by just taking preorders. I mean they might loose a bit of cash but I think that'd be the best way of doing things. Then they could say on paper we have planned this much income right away.

Anyway Apple is notorious for doing lil things, not to mention 64 bit is a big thing to offer developers, so they might say hey we're moving to this platform, and the big developers like adobe will be able to test PS 8 on the 64 bit architecture to take advantge of more things

I mean likely they'd just give one to the big developers... but anyway, Wasn't sampling supposed to be a while ago? They could still demo it.

DrBoar · Mar 27, 2003, 05:22 AM

http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers...ves/000046.php is one link, soemwere else I have seen that there are two versions of the MB. One for SP and one for DP.

IBM plan to have the manufacturing running the second half of this year. If IBM are pitting theri 970 against dual Intel Xeon running Linux there speed requirments are far more stringent than Apple. Apples primary need is that they are faster than G4s (above 700 MHz will do). A second goal is that the 970 is fsater than a Pentium 4 @3 GHz so a 2 GHz or a pair of 1.2 GHz 970 should enable this.

The point is that even if IBM would have problem with CPUs above 1.5 GHz or so (making them less useful for IBM) they would be glorious compared to G4. Reminder in SPEC2000 a 1.5 GHz 970 compares to a G4 at 2.65 GHzin integers and to a 5.0 GHz G4 in floating point.

Comparing it to Intel it would be like a 2.5 GHz P4 as a single CPU and a dual would be about as a 4.5 GHz P4 in SMP applications. Even faster 970 will be icing on the cake

Rickag · Mar 27, 2003, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Commodus:
...One more thing to help out in the debate over the validity of these rumours. IBM's December 2002 PowerPC newsletter has a segment on the PPC 970 that seems to narrow down the timetables: they say shipment in the second half of 2003,...

Thank you for the link, I'd lost it and my feeble attempts to locate it were in vain.

krove · 12:34 AM

I'm drooling: when can I buy one?

I don't think Apple would do pre-orders as that would cannibalize sales of older models still in the channel, which is a bad thing. With pre-orders, generally money is not taken until shipment, too. As such, Apple cannot really rake in the dough until they have actually started shipping these in quantity. That will be a great day!