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Zoom · Apr 2, 2003, 11:50 AM

This Wired article was posted at 2am today, so I'm hoping this isn't an April Fools joke. This guy is talking about producing a pizzabox Mac hardware thing without an OS (or a CPU?) called the iBox. I apologize if this is a double post, but I didn't see it anywhere else here.

This rocks! I would love to have one of these! I want to make a Mac project box with OSX and iTunes that I can use in my entertainment system as an MP3 player. With a TV out option and some sort of RF remote control PCI card, this would be perfect! I could come up with all sorts of uses for this, in fact.

Does this guy stand a chance? Will Apple squash him?

I've been dying to tinker with building a custom Apple box but Apple just doesn't allow it and that drives me nuts. The only option is to buy out-of-date motherboards like this guy is doing, and of course no one makes a case for an Apple mobo except Apple.

I know Steve hates clones and I can understand wanting to protect his profit margin, but frankly, I wish we had more options and some competition. I know it's been said before, but I wish Power Computing was still around.

Anyway, if this happens, I'll be getting in line for one.

G-mac · Apr 2, 2003, 12:29 PM

Yeah, the iBox is pretty cool. Here's another link to check out:

http://www.2khappyware.com/

graphics84 · Apr 2, 2003, 12:43 PM

I wish apple put something like this out...

how much could they sell a ibook for with out a screen? under $400-500, I think so...

that would be cool... and it would be perfect for a streaming mp3 server, a digital hub with a decent HDTV, ftp server (i guess any little server), low end workstation, etc...

Just needs to keep:

CD-R
Video Out
Sound Out
Sound In
Firewire
USB
Ethernet
some sort of Wifi support

no need for modem (buy a USB for $20)

Hell I don't even need the 2.5 inch drive I could boot from a external Firewire drive...

but man this is sounding like what the old Next paradime used to be... just make it network bootable...

anybody know what I'm talking about?

blizzard · Apr 2, 2003, 01:37 PM

Yeah, if this gets off the ground it would be AWESOME...I'm getting all excited at the thought of being able to build a machine with a RADEON 8500, a 1.2 ghz G4, and a PCI sound card for under the price of the base Pro G4.

Sadly, however, I somehow suspect that this venture will get shut down before it takes off...Apple seems to like doing things like that.

Macola · Apr 2, 2003, 09:03 PM

Having built several PCs, I've always wanted the same option for a Mac. If this does succeed, I'll be getting in line...

graphics84 · Apr 2, 2003, 10:46 PM

my first Mac was a PowerComputing Power something It was a case with a board and and processor... got it for a $150 bucks... sweet deal (kinda late in the clone thing). It was equal to a 7500/180...

I found a 8 gig SCSI and a 8X CD and I had a kick but computer...

whole thing cost me under $300 bills when the Apple version would have cost me a grand...

still have it upgraded to a G3 400 running as a hotline server...

wish I could do that again...

veryniceguy2002 · Apr 4, 2003, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by blizzard:
Yeah, if this gets off the ground it would be AWESOME...I'm getting all excited at the thought of being able to build a machine with a RADEON 8500, a 1.2 ghz G4, and a PCI sound card for under the price of the base Pro G4.

Or, if I am on a budget, I could buy the barebox first, re-use my old ATA hard drive and ATi graphics card from taken off from my PowerMac during my last upgrade, and built a budget web or file server, or use it as a nice web kiosk in my living room using a cheap 802.11b USB access point. When I eventually got a good salary increase from my work I can then upgrade bits and pieces... all of the sudden this iBox thing bring back a lot of enjoyment back on using Mac

Gee... I must be daydreaming!

Sadly, however, I somehow suspect that this venture will get shut down before it takes off...Apple seems to like doing things like that.

I don't know whether anyone can recall Mac related news back in late 80's and early 90's... if you can't try find a copy of old Macworld or MacUser back in those days in your gargage this weekend... Remember there is at least one firm selling re-packaged MacPlus or Mac SE as a laptop?? (Can't recall the company's name... I think it outboard or something like that... get a kangaroo as the logo... need to re-check my old copy of Macworld this weekend

) What that firm did was similar to what the iBox trying to do. The way how they got around is either you have to supply the MacPlus or Mac SE ROM (most of the MacOS toolbox routines was in the ROM), or they buy old SE or MacPlus from 2nd hand market and take the ROM out from there. They way they got around the Apple legal issue.

Obvious nowadays the MacOS toolbox is no longer in the ROM, so I suspect to get around the legal issue they would have to do something equivalent here...

I really want to see the iBox to see the light of day... I am waiting!

bsharp · Apr 4, 2003, 07:37 PM

The company's name was Outback (or at least that's what they called their computer). You're right about their 'portable' Mac.

Then the clones came and then the clones went.

I'd forgotten all about them.

Paco500 · Apr 4, 2003, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by bsharp:
The company's name was Outback (or at least that's what they called their computer). You're right about their 'portable' Mac.

It was actually "Outbound" not "Outback."

You must have steak on the brain.

saru boy · Apr 4, 2003, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by blizzard:
Yeah, if this gets off the ground it would be AWESOME...I'm getting all excited at the thought of being able to build a machine with a RADEON 8500, a 1.2 ghz G4, and a PCI sound card for under the price of the base Pro G4.

Is it impossible to do this one your own from spare parts bought off of eBay? Presumably this is what this guy is doing, so why can't any other enterprising person do the same for himself?

The power supply/case would probably be the big obstacle, so why doesn't this guy (or someone else) just make a case that will handle a gigabit board and leave the rest to each individual purchaser to do?

schalliol · Apr 5, 2003, 01:06 AM

Kill the optical drive, this can be people's second Mac and if they really want an optical drive they can get their own, FireWire boot the machine from another Mac if there's a problem.

schalliol · Apr 5, 2003, 01:09 AM

Since the ROM is now in software, why can't someone make their own?

(shoot, sorry for the double post, I meant to edit)

Maflynn · Apr 5, 2003, 06:42 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple sued him out of existance, they have deep pockets. I think its a pretty cool design though.

Its funny though I hear so many people complain here that apple needs faster computers to compete and now in this thread people would love to get on of these babies which of course has older obsolete equipment.

Mike

schalliol · Apr 5, 2003, 11:31 AM

Yeah, Apple won't let them stay around I'm pretty sure.

(Looks like MacNN is having server problems, again)

veryniceguy2002 · Apr 6, 2003, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by Maflynn:
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple sued him out of existance, they have deep pockets. I think its a pretty cool design though.

I hope Apple won't do that

Originally posted by Maflynn:

Its funny though I hear so many people complain here that apple needs faster computers to compete and now in this thread people would love to get on of these babies which of course has older obsolete equipment.

Mike

It's different. This is very similar to cars. A lot of people like new fast car, but then you have people can either cannot afford those new cars or they just like the vintage cars, and they like to buy it onto restore or upgrade their cars slowly when the $$$ arrives. Of course if I have the $$$ I would rush and get the new G5 PowerMac straight away (and hope Apple won't release a new model 2 months after), but then I would still want to buy one of those iBox and then spent my weekends upgrade the RAM and hard disk on weekends...

rmendis · Apr 6, 2003, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by G-mac:
Yeah, the iBox is pretty cool. Here's another link to check out:

http://www.2khappyware.com/

Very cute...but Apple will never make a pizza box like that. Not for the desktop anyway...maybe as as set top for T.V.
But with all those flat panel displays i doubt this. Also not to foget the iMac.

However, what i don't doubt is perhaps two enclosures...one small and one large for the new PowerMac G5 we ought to see this WWDC

CheesePuff · Apr 6, 2003, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by rmendis:
Very cute...but Apple will never make a pizza box like that. Not for the desktop anyway...maybe as as set top for T.V.
But with all those flat panel displays i doubt this. Also not to foget the iMac.

However, what i don't doubt is perhaps two enclosures...one small and one large for the new PowerMac G5 we ought to see this WWDC

Apple is not making this... it's a guy who made the case design and is putting parts in it and selling it.

JNG · Apr 7, 2003, 12:27 AM

iPipeDream

exca1ibur · Apr 7, 2003, 01:53 AM

I'm having Xtrem flashbacks...

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0008/07.xtrem.shtml

I'll believe it when I see it.

rtmoose28 · Apr 7, 2003, 10:28 AM

Would go great with a couple of iBoxes!!

Submitted to Apple on 15 Feb 03:

I have a product idea.
My idea is for the "iServe".

The thought is that those who have macs have more than 1. Families have 3 or more and all need access to the same data (address book, music, photos and other documents). Some machines are non-portable iMacs and some are iBooks. But all have local only profiles. The iServe would provide a complete network experience. User accounts are created on the iServe and all other machines in the house use it for Directory services. Users home directories would live on the iServe. Since the iServe has mirrored hard-drives it has built in backup. All address book, music, photos and other documents can be located centrally or in individual profiles. If the iServe is located in the living room with the TV, it can also play music through a simplified iTunes interface. It could play homemade movies and DVD's. It could also turn your TV into a "big photo album" by constantly revolving pictures from iPhoto. It could be used as the "Family webserver", print server or firewall. This is not a Xserve. It will not handle the volume or have the licensing to be one. It wouldn't have PCI/AGP slots and it's video card is just for displaying to a TV through DVI/Svideo/composite. The management software for iServe would be much simpler than OS X Server workgroup manager, but still be a full copy of Mac OS X Server. The iServe would not be a mail server or a Netboot/Netinstall server. The iServe would only support "X" number of user accounts (like 10 or 15). Price point would be around $1,000.00.

I image a G4 single cpu platform (maybe based of the G4 iMac) in a case styled similar to the G4 iMac but roughly 3" high by 16" wide by 12" deep. This simple "box" with a shallow curved front and a gorgeous silver Apple in the middle, would act as a consumer version of the Xserve.

Technical Specifications:
-Hardware
--Single G4 CPU running 800mhz-1000mhz
--256meg upgradable to a gig
--Dual non-removable 120/160gig harddrives configurable as RAID 0 (mirrored)
--Slot loading CD/DVD
--Low end NVIDA/ATI video with DVI, composite and Svideo output
--10/100 ethernet
--Airport (optional)
--56k modem (optional, primary internet connection through ethernet using Airport base station as internet gateway)
--Dual Firewire 400 (Mass storage expansion by consumer)
--Quad USB (support for printers, input devices and Bluetooth)
--Line level sound in/out
--Fanless with external (possible redundant) "power brick"

-Software
--Mac OS X Server w/ Family Manager (Workgroup Manager lite)
--Licensed for 10 or 15 users
--"iMedia" central, simplified interface for view/listening to media in your home entertainment system on your TV.
--Child protection proxy software.
--Wireless remote control (UHF or Bluetooth)

I run a small Macintosh consulting business and have had many questions on information sharing where Mac OS X is loaded on several macs in a residence. I have had customers that have purchased an iMac and Mac OS X Server to do pretty much what the iServe would do. I think there is a real need for this product. It is not a set-top box, but does integrate with existing products in the home. It is not a Xserve, but provides many of the benefits of one without the advanced technical know-how. It is not an Airport base station and a computer combined. In fact, I see it using an ABS as a gateway to the internet. Left on at night it could check for updates and download them so that the users could install the updates with out going over the internet for each machine. I think this would also boost Mac sales. With "roaming profiles" you can effectively have a mac in major areas of the house and a wireless iBook or two, all giving the same experience.

exca1ibur · Apr 7, 2003, 08:10 PM

Sounds like an updated Cube running OSX Server there.

...If only the original Cube was sold for $999 it would still be around and this would be very possible update to it.

Superchicken · Apr 8, 2003, 07:07 PM

rtmoose don't hijack threads. You posted that before it got it's time in the sun don't hijack someone else's post in an attempt to get more discusstion on your idea than you already got because honestly I don't think that anyone can say anything more than they did last time.

rtmoose28 · Apr 9, 2003, 08:26 AM

Stop your clucking! The point is a revisit to an idea that could be picked up by a non-Apple company. Nobody is hijacking anything, minus you hijacking open discussion.

I think the cube was the start of the thought process. However the cube is too sexy. The point is that this is a server and not just a cube with Mac OS X server installed.
Also, a consumer level software package would also have to be written.

The idea of third party CPU's is great as long as the quality is there and not sacrificed for price.

RTM

graphics84 · Apr 9, 2003, 10:28 AM

I like the cube and I saw this thing at MacWorld 2001 I think:
http://www.sancube.com

ther isn't a picture so you have to download the PDF to see it but it's a cube packed with hard drives and can go on a firewire network...

I still think a pizza box design will work the best...

the cube is cool but dosne't seem to easy to work in... I really loved how easy it was to pull the top of an old LCII, 6100, or Qudra 800...

great easy to use workstations... they never really seemed to be power machines.

the specs I think would be awesome:

Take a iMac 800Mhz board with video out

800MHz PowerPC G4
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX
32MB DDR video memory
256MB SDRAM
empty slot for IDE drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
Apple Pro Speakers
AirPort Ready

make it firewire or network bootable..

charge me $500

put a cheaper standard VGA card would be ok with me too...

can it be done?

exca1ibur · Apr 9, 2003, 11:52 AM

can it be done?

You mean...

Can it be done... without getting sued.

graphics84 · Apr 9, 2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by exca1ibur:
You mean...

Can it be done... without getting sued.

not what I meant... can anything remotely close to what I and from what I've read a lot of other people want (hint, hint APPLE).

I don't care where it comes from as long as it cost under $500 bucks and does what I listed above...

Apple, IBM, Motorola, John Doe, who cares...

Big company would be cool because of support... but the truth of the matter is that if it's apple parts then it's problay going to be pretty stable and I will beable to fix it (do it all the time)

The truth is I can't even do this now with old hardware from used part dealers...

There's this place MadMacs down here and they still want like $500 for a UMAX S900!!!!

It's crazy...

Old apple (or compatible) hardware is way over priced... I've benifited a few times from this,... selling old laptops but it's still crazy.

I should be able to buy a G3 400 for under $300 I would think..

G3 400

nope...

but you can't from anywhere unless you stumble on somebody selling a system or ebay from god knows where...

look what a new PC cost...

http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers..._special61.htm

with a $699 after rebates... with a flat screen!

I know quality, quality, quality... what the hell, Apple uses the same hard drives, DVD-Rs, RAM, and several other componets that everyone else (PC manufactures) uses.

read this Apple and figure out how to encrease your market share...

you have a better OS and compatability... but I'm so tired of paying out my nose for it...

I love apple and I'm writing this on THE BEST MACHINE I'VE EVER HAD... a 1 GIG Ti,

around me I have a Dual 1 gig, a G3 450,
at home I have a 7500 beefed up to a G3 400...

my best friends have a Dual 533,

everyone I work with uses a Mac...

I'm hooked... but it's killing me (mostly in the pocket book)

uh, sorry

ok rant is over...

Zoom · Apr 9, 2003, 05:33 PM

No, I agree, graphics84. I want Apple to survive, but damn it's hard to pay these prices. The consumer level machines I think are good buys, in terms of bang-for-the-buck. But the PowerMacs seem way overpriced to me. I love the hardware design and I know they've done some cool things that PC manufacturers still can't touch, but I don't think it commands the premium we're paying - especially when you look at the performance gap. I would think that Apple could still thrive if they allowed some basic level of third-party options. They need to be complicated enough to keep away the average Joe who would never try to build a Mac, but give the hobbyists and geeks some room to play and even innovate. I have having to wait for Apple to innovate, to never know what's around the corner, and to be literally unable to even make something you've dreamed of (like a OS X based PVR or MP3 jukebox or whatever). I see all my PC buddies going nuts making cool Linux servers and home projects, and I'm about to do that myself because I can't do it with my platform of choice.

anti-sleep · Apr 9, 2003, 06:06 PM

I'm very interested to see what comes out of this. Especially because this guy lives about two miles from me.

DBvader · Apr 9, 2003, 10:30 PM

i would rather this be a set top box than a acuual desktop. swap out the 1/8th mini audio out and the monitor out for composite cable hook ups. that would be awesome.

TimmyDee51 · Apr 10, 2003, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by DBvader:
i would rather this be a set top box than a acuual desktop. swap out the 1/8th mini audio out and the monitor out for composite cable hook ups. that would be awesome.

While it's a stretch, you may get your wish. Take the iBox and add a nice composite video out card in the PCI slot and you've got a nice set-top. Add some Bluetooth in for a wireless keyboard and mouse and I'm starting to drool.

Zoom · 08:54 AM

Just to make sure everyone is following this, here's the direct link to John Fraser's iBox 2 page. As of April 2 he's had 300 requests for this thing. You can email John here to express interest in owning one of these.

Follow up: I just emailed John about my interest in this project and pointed him to this thread. Maybe he'll show up and talk about this project with us.

happyware · Apr 10, 2003, 11:11 AM

As of April 2 he's had 300 requests for this thing. You can email John here to express interest in owning one of these.

Hey everyone. Wow how much things can change in the past couple of days. I now have well over 10,000 requests including school medical and of course internaltional demand.

I will be doing some international travel in the next couple of weeks and a big surprise to everyone. We will be releasing a tower version for availability in about 2 weeks! (preorder will start this weekend).

The tower design details etc will be posted shortly with the new website (due to demand I had to remove all pictures and move to a different server).

The tower is basically a somewhat standard tower case with a great design easy access and built in internal LED's soft sounding cooling fans and more. It will be the internals of the smaller project known as the 'iBox' will help get people a barebones machine for under $350 quicker plus have the option of 3 5.25" drives 4 3.5" drives and full usage of 3PCI slots and 1 2x Speed AGP Slot. The only temporary restriction is the inability to use ADC Video ports on cards (should be resolved shortly).

Please visit our site

http://www.2khappyware.com

to sign up for a list (annoucements only) or to web for the new website and ordering information.

Thanks for your support!

Zoom · 11:45 AM

Cool!!! Glad you accepted the invitation!!

What's the status on the legal side? Has Apple approached you yet? Are you getting any legal advice on this?

How do you expect to handle demand? Will OWC manufacture/assemble all of these for you? It sounds like all you really need to add (for a functioning desktop system) are the following:

- RAM ($30-50)
- hard drive ($50-100)
- optical drive ($25-50)
- keyboard & mouse ($25-50)
- operating system ("free")
- graphics card ($100-200)
- monitor (wide range)

Is that correct? Am I missing anything? It will definitely ship with a motherboard, CPU, power supply, and I/O ports, right? And I believe the target price is around $350? Will there be any BTO options with OWC to add in (pre-assemble) the missing components?

What are the known limitations on this? That is, what do you know that you cannot do, with respect to Apple's rights on the hardware or just hardware availability? Where are you getting the motherboards, for instance?

What are the full specs on the tower? Where can we see the pictures? Inside shots, too, please!

When do you expect the pizza box to be available? Can we get shots of the inside on that, too? Any chance you could add an IrDa port on the front? I imagine many people will want to turn this into a set-top box, and a remote control port built in would be very handy. I know you add PCI cards for this, but I'd rather not waste a slot of that if I didn't have to.

I'm psyched about this project! I hope it works out!

[APi]TheMan · Apr 10, 2003, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by happyware:
Hey everyone. Wow how much things can change in the past couple of days. I now have well over 10,000 requests including school medical and of course internaltional demand.

Holy cow, from zero to hero. Way to ho, happyware, sounds like you know what you're doing and are fairly confident. I'll be interested to see how things pan out.

Simon · Apr 11, 2003, 08:40 AM

This sounds a bit like something I have been asking for for months already (on this board as well): the netMac or nMac. I was thinking maily for business or univeristies where you just need a cheap terminal machine:

- 800MHz G3 (IBM 750fx) running on a 133MHz SDRAM board
- 256MB soldered, 1 SO-DIMM slot
- (optional) 40GB disk
- (optional) Combo
- GF4MX 32MB video
- Gigabit Ethernet
- 1 USB (for keyboard/mouse)
- maybe 1 (mini)PCI slot for expansion

and the whole thin in an enclosure like the Mac LC, but white plastics like the G4 iMac. Sell it for 400$ and it would be awesome.

My lab would buy them by the dozens and hook em up to Xserves with OS X Netboot. Sweet.

Come to think, maybe they could make them even cheaper by subsidizing them with a charge for Netboot per client. That way my mother gets an ultra-cheap Mac to surf the web while for the university it's still a cheap way to get a lot of network clients.

Peder Rice · Apr 12, 2003, 12:02 PM

I'll be plopping down the money for a couple of these, depending only on the market of upgrade cards. Though I'd like the speed of the dual-1.25GHz PowerMac, cost is a significant factor.

Mohammed Al-Sabah · Apr 14, 2003, 03:58 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
This sounds a bit like something I have been asking for for months already (on this board as well): the netMac or nMac. I was thinking maily for business or univeristies where you just need a cheap terminal machine:

- 800MHz G3 (IBM 750fx) running on a 133MHz SDRAM board
- 256MB soldered, 1 SO-DIMM slot
- (optional) 40GB disk
- (optional) Combo
- GF4MX 32MB video
- Gigabit Ethernet
- 1 USB (for keyboard/mouse)
- maybe 1 (mini)PCI slot for expansion

and the whole thin in an enclosure like the Mac LC, but white plastics like the G4 iMac. Sell it for 400$ and it would be awesome.

My lab would buy them by the dozens and hook em up to Xserves with OS X Netboot. Sweet.

Come to think, maybe they could make them even cheaper by subsidizing them with a charge for Netboot per client. That way my mother gets an ultra-cheap Mac to surf the web while for the university it's still a cheap way to get a lot of network clients.

would be nice to have cheap low end computers to do a single thing

i would buy a couple and spread them around the house for JUST internet access

Simon · Apr 14, 2003, 06:14 AM

Originally posted by Mohammed Al-Sabah:
would be nice to have cheap low end computers to do a single thing i would buy a couple and spread them around the house for JUST internet access

Yep. Me too.

One in my bedroom to read the newspaper online on weekends from bed and watch DVDs.

One in my library at home for work.

One in my girldfriend's office room at home for work.

One in the kitchen for our recipe collection database.

One in the living room for DVDs (-> beamer) and as a music server to our stereo system.

One on every john in the house to surf the web.

exca1ibur · Apr 14, 2003, 07:52 PM

Specs and price are available it seems

http://www.2khappyware.com/corecrib.html

pjkim · Apr 14, 2003, 08:30 PM

Can everyone say Ponzi scheme?

Mohammed Al-Sabah · Apr 15, 2003, 09:46 AM

lets all send apple emails saying

make us a cheap internet box

gizzard · Apr 16, 2003, 12:00 PM

Inside Mac Games Interviews John Fraser