[Wolfte]

I am planning on purchasing a power mac using my adc student discount in a few weeks. I am trying to decide if it is worth the extra money to go for the 1.42 over the 1.25. If I got the 1.25 i would be upgrading to the superdrive, 120 gig HD, and 512 ram. I would be using it primarily for programing and multimedia.
Is it worth it to go for the 1.42. any opinions would be welcome.


thanks

[spogy]

Originally posted by Wolfte:
I am planning on purchasing a power mac using my adc student discount in a few weeks. I am trying to decide if it is worth the extra money to go for the 1.42 over the 1.25. If I got the 1.25 i would be upgrading to the superdrive, 120 gig HD, and 512 ram. I would be using it primarily for programing and multimedia.
Is it worth it to go for the 1.42. any opinions would be welcome.


thanks

Your question is the same one I have been asking myself for the past few weeks.

If you look at the tests posted at the Bare Feats web site, the difference does not seem that great, performance wise:

http://www.barefeats.com/pm07.html

However, if you are going to upgrade the hard drive, the memorey and add the Superdrive? then I say go for the dual 1.42 machine. An added bonus is the 2MB of L3 cache per processor; it seems to make a difference for certain programs like Virtual PC.

Apple seems to be shipping the ATi 9700 graphics card now so I have decided to go with the dual 1.42, the ATi 9700 card and the Bluetooth internal upgrade.

It should be a smoking fast machine. I personally will keep my current dual 867 for any OS 9 work I might have in the future.

Good luck with your decision.

Spogy

[keston]

I think the best value right now is the dual 1.25Ghz. Why? Because the Dual 1.42 includes more RAM, HD, superDrive, etc... and you KNOW apple is making you pay double for what these cost. Try adding them to the Dual 1.25Ghz and see what I mean. So I think when you get the high end, your are basically forced to pay those prices (because its "included"). The extra Mhz is not worth paying Apple's prices for the things included.

So, if you get the Dual 1.25Ghz, add 2x512MB, Pioneer A05 DVD-R, and throw in another 120GB HD (all not from Apple) you will come out alot better i think. Thats what I did, and I am very happy.

If you have money to burn though, go for it

[awcopus]

Also on verge of purchasing, and am leaning toward the 1.4. I'm thinking strategically. Apple's high-end machine will have more reseller value down the line. I have usually purchased Apple's mid-range machine immediately after the PowerMac line is upgraded. The result is that I customarily pay $1500 for a decent performer...the value proposition has been terrific. Now I'm using the 933 QS.

However, I'm thinking of altering this algorithm now that much of my primary work is video editing. Value is still important to me, but I need performance.

And my "value" reasoning is this: I'll benefit from the highest performance machine, spending $3200 (the machine plus RAM...I have many HDs which I'll simply transplant). Reselling for $1500-$2000, over time I will be paying an average of $1200-$1700 per Mac.

My 2 cents.

[Tomac]

I think the best value right now is the dual 1.25Ghz. Why? Because the Dual 1.42 includes more RAM, HD, superDrive, etc... and you KNOW apple is making you pay double for what these cost. Try adding them to the Dual 1.25Ghz and see what I mean. So I think when you get the high end, your are basically forced to pay those prices (because its "included"). The extra Mhz is not worth paying Apple's prices for the things included.

keston is spot on. Also, these machines down the line won't actually be worth much. This is THE END OF THE LINE for Motorola driven Power Macs -- it's not worth it shelling out for the fastest as of now. Save that extra bit of cash -- by buying the Dual 1.25 -- and put it towards a 64-bit Power Mac or whatever comes 'round later this year. Selling these current machines when the new rigs come out is going to be rough, even if you've got the Dual 1.42. The new architecture will beat the livin' crap out of these Duals. Big whoop, 340 extra MHz and an additional MB per L3 -- not worth it. Get a second hardrive, max the ram out and add the superdrive. You'd probably have a little bit of cash to spare. Maxed ram and second HD would push/maintain the value somewhat -- better than if you had a bare bones Dual 1.42 that cost the same as a maxed Dual 1.25.

Longevity doesn't COMPLETELY mean having the FASTEST Mac. Gotta find the sweet spot of Apple's products, and currently the Dual 1.25GHz is it.

[awcopus]

tomac, we'll have to agree to disagree. People who frequent boards like this probably wouldn't buy a former top-of-the-line PowerMac after the 970s come out....but there are plenty of people who will. I know people who buy Macs right before expos, because they're not tuned in. And they don't fret when new products come out, because they're not frantically trying to stay on the cutting edge.

Most people agree that 970s emerging this year is unlikely. At the very least, I assume first-gen 970s will be "Yikes"-like...I would be waiting for the second-gen, which will be more refined, less buggy.

SO...the issue becomes maxing out performance and getting the most value when reselling. The 1.42 ONLY needs more RAM. The 1.25 requires me to install a SuperDrive and RAM. People have installed Pioneer "Superdrives" and suffered incompatibility issues/flaky performance. If I buy a custom config directly from Apple, I have to pay sales tax.

Honestly, at that point the price difference is negligible? I'll take the additional L3 cache and processor speed.

When Apple's high-end PowerMac was $3499, it was not a value proposition. At the current price, I consider it compelling.

I guess, my 4 cents?

[kakashi]

Just a side note, don't forget that Student ADC discount is a once in a lifetime thing. It's about 20% if I recall correctly, so...might as well get the best machine you can, and save more money right? I'd go for the 1.42!

[keston]

The extras $700 gets you on the DP 1.42Ghz:
+DVD-R/W Drive
- Combo drive (aka. you dont get two drives)
+170 Mhz (x2)
+256MB RAM
+40GB HD Storage
+ 1MB L3 Cache per Processor

Seperate Item costs for DP 1.25Ghz:
$250 - DVD-R/RW
$0/FREE - Included Combo Drive (with DP 1.42 you get ONE drive only)
$135 - 2x512MB (thats 1.25GB RAM )
$125 - 120GB Extra HD (so you now have 200GB )
$75 - Wireless Keyboard/Mouse (Logitech)
$50 - USB Bluetooth Adapter
$60 - Apple Pro Speakers

Now tell me THAT wont make up for the lost 170Mhz

Also as someone mentioned above, a DP 1.25 decked out like above will hold a better resale value than a stock DP1.42Ghz i think.

[awcopus]

Okay, let's look at it:

> Seperate Item costs for DP 1.25Ghz:
> $250 - DVD-R/RW

$2250

$0/FREE - Included Combo Drive (with DP 1.42 you get ONE drive only)

Good point, dude.

$135 - 2x512MB (thats 1.25GB RAM )

$2385 (but this is a wash because I would spend the same amount on RAM for the 1.4 and end up with 1.5 GB of RAM)

> $125 - 120GB Extra HD (so you now have 200GB )

I have no cost here...many 180gb and 200gb hard drives.

> $75 - Wireless Keyboard/Mouse (Logitech)

I have an FCP keyboard.

> $50 - USB Bluetooth Adapter

$2435.

> $60 - Apple Pro Speakers

Have speakers.

You only made one mistake. I end up with a +2MB advantage on L3 cache (additional 1mb per processor).

There can be no doubt that the $1999 machine is a better value. My case was based on the concept that I can buy the best performing Mac available, and leverage its resale price in future purchases in such a manner as to render my effective costs virtually identical to those of the guy who settles for Apple's mid-range machine. I have the inconvenience of having to sell the machine (but, thank you ebay, that's not TOO hard), but I get to work on the best machines Apple makes.

Different strokes for different folks. May we all be happy with our Macs and our rationales for buying one instead of the other!

:-)

[keston]

You only made one mistake. I end up with a +2MB advantage on L3 cache (additional 1mb per processor).

I should have mentioned my "+"s means "EXTRA", so +1MB L3 Cache means an extra 1MB per proc. Same with +40GB etc. I agree, everyone in the end has diffrent needs and budgets. so get what make you happiest

[Patcarla]

I would go for the DP 1.25 and OC it at 1.33ghz...
If you're interested here is a link:
http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcon...003-04-04#5175

[graffix]

I just went through this exact same dilemma... and ended up ordering the 1.25DP machine and the 17" Studio Display.
The machine I got was stock except I had the Superdrive added and I also ordered the Apple Pro speakers at the same time.
The 1.42DP isn't that much faster to justify the price differential, so the 'Best Value' at the moment is the 1.25DP.
Grand total for my purchase: $2375.
ADC discounts rock!

[awcopus]

Grand total for my purchase: $2375.
ADC discounts rock!

ADC discounts? Available to...?

[CatOne]

Originally posted by awcopus:
ADC discounts? Available to...?

ADC members, of course ;-)

Note these are people who *pay* a certain amount each year for ADC membership, not the general populace who can register to download things like the Mac OS Developer Tools.

[CheesePuff]

Or just get a student ADC account (if you are a student that is) for $99 (one time, not yearly) and get about a 25% discount on nearly all hardware and software.

[Wolfte]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm now leaning towards the 1.42. In reading different message boards there semm to be alot more problems with the fw800 1.25s than the 1.42s. Specifically an overheating issue with the 1.25s. this problem doesn't seem to be occuring with the 1.42s, most likely because of the copper heatsink w/ heatpipe. if anybody has any info on this i would really apreciate it.


thanks