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bstone · Apr 20, 2003, 04:15 PM

What is the best video card for OS X and games availbe for the Sawtooth? Raedon 8500? 9000? 9700 Pro?

::maroma:: · Apr 20, 2003, 04:42 PM

Good question. I too have a Sawtooth, and have been wondering what card would be the best, without overdoing it. I don't want to get a card that I can't use 100% of (having AGP 2x).

Lateralus · 08:04 PM

Well:

The GeForce 2MX will offer the least performance increase over what you have.
The GeForce 4MX is a half way decent choice, and it is somewhat cheap on eBay.
The GeForce 3 is very hard to get for a reasonable price, mainly because of Cube owners who would sell their souls for one since it is the best card that will fit in their rig.
The GeForce 4 Ti is a bit over the top for a Sawtooth.
The Radeon 7000 sucks and sells for too much.
Tha Radeon is good and sells for too much.
The Radeon 8500 is a good choice and is starting to sell for prices on eBay that are reasonable.
The Radeon 9000 is a pretty good choice and can be had for relatively cheap on eBay.
The Radeon 9700 is also a bit over the top for a Sawtooth.

That said, I think your top 3 to choose from would be the GeForce 4MX, Radeon 8500, and Radeon 9000.

My personal pick would be the Radeon 9000 since it sells for about what teh GeForce 4MX does but offers better performance and image quality.

::maroma:: · Apr 21, 2003, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Well:

<snip>

My personal pick would be the Radeon 9000 since it sells for about what teh GeForce 4MX does but offers better performance and image quality.

Thanks for the info. I currently have a flashed GeForce3. Would the Radeon 9000 be an improvement over the GF3? I'm looking to get the best card my Sawtooth can handle.

Thanks again.

Lateralus · Apr 21, 2003, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Thanks for the info. I currently have a flashed GeForce3. Would the Radeon 9000 be an improvement over the GF3? I'm looking to get the best card my Sawtooth can handle.

Thanks again.

The two will be almost equal.

bstone · Apr 21, 2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
The two will be almost equal.

The real question is: which is the BEST?

Lateralus · Apr 21, 2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by bstone:
The real question is: which is the BEST?

For someone who has a flashed-ready-to-work GeForce 3 handy, the GeForce 3 would be best.

For somebody who DOESNT have one, a Radeon 9000 would be best. The image quality offered by Radeons has always been better than that of their GeForce counterparts.

bstone · Apr 21, 2003, 04:36 PM

Between the 8500 and the 9000, which one is better?

Lateralus · Apr 21, 2003, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by bstone:
Between the 8500 and the 9000, which one is better?

The 8500.

Luca Rescigno · Apr 21, 2003, 04:58 PM

The BEST of the BEST for your Sawtooth would be a Radeon 9700.

However, it's overkill. Don't get one unless you also buy a processor upgrade, say, a 1 GHz G4 (single or dual, dual preferred of course). I think a processor upgrade should be higher on your list of priorities than a better video card than a GeForce 3. You can get G4/800 upgrades for fairly cheap, even dual 800, single GHz, or dual GHz. Get a processor upgrade, and THEN think about replacing the video card. And when you do replace the video card, it should be a Radeon 9700 or GeForce 4 Ti because those are the two most powerful available. But if you put one of them in your Sawtooth now, it won't really be much of a benefit because your computer's processor can't take full advantage of the graphics card.

Lateralus · Apr 21, 2003, 05:01 PM

I'd still say to get a better video card than the Rage 128 first, then worry about the CPU.

Being able to take advantage of Quartz Extreme will take a good amount of weight off of your CPU in OS X, and make your machine feel faster overal.

I had a G4 533/GeForce 3 and the clock speed of teh G4 didnt hurt the gaming experience much.

Lateralus · Apr 21, 2003, 05:05 PM

Also, the price difference between a $150 Radeon and a $300+ G4 upgrade is quite big.

And it is pretty much accepted now that CPU upgrades are a waste of time and money, especially in a year where the Mac desktop line will see the introduction of a new processor with IBMs 970 chip, and along with it an improved architecture (Bus, RAM, etc.).

Luca Rescigno · 05:12 PM

Yeah that's basically what I meant... if you have a G4/400 with a Rage 128, get that Rage out of there and get something better like a Radeon 9000 or something.

I originally said that then you'd want a processor upgrade before moving to a really high end card like a GeForce 4 Ti or Radeon 9700... but PowerMacMan is right, they're generally overpriced. It would be better to pick up a whole new (or lightly used) computer for a little more than the price of souping up your old one. A friend of mine just picked up a 933 MHz G4, with a GeForce 4MX 64MB (not the current, cruddy 32 MB version), 2x Superdrive, 60 GB hard drive, and 256 MB of RAM for about $1000. In addition to the fast processor, it also has the other excellent components like the big hard drive and superdrive. So instead of having to upgrade the hard drive, RAM, video, AND processor (face it, a G4/400MHz/128MB/20GB/DVDROM/Rage128 needs all those upgrades), he just bought a brand new computer that has a faster bus speed, faster AGP, and will last much longer.

reader50 · Apr 21, 2003, 05:10 PM

Between the 8500 and 9000, the 8500 is better unless you need ADC. Principal differences:

8500:
2 texture units per rendering pipeline
VGA port
DVI port
S port

9000
1 texture unit per rendering pipeline
DVI port
ADC port

The two texture units per pipeline doesn't seem to make a difference in current games. That may change when the UT2003 demo gets released, and will also probably help on Halo, UT2, Doom3 and other future games.

::maroma:: · Apr 21, 2003, 05:28 PM

Good info.

I already have a processor upgrade in my Sawtooth, so I'm now looking to max out my vid card. I guess my GF3 will do me good for now. The only trouble I have with it is it has a very annoying flickering problem (that has been confirmed by others with similar cards) that wont go away. It only happens in the OS, not games. This is the main reason I'm looking to replace it.

Also, I disagree about it being accepted that proc upgrades are a waste of money. I know that Apple will be introducing new PMs soon that will be really nice. But being an experienced buyer, I know that I won't want the first round of those new machines. I want to wait until at LEAST the 2nd round so they can work out the initial kinks. Buying a proc upgrade for $500 now, allowing me to prolong the life of my current machine (which I've invested in) for maybe another year or so until I get a new one is worth it to me.

Lateralus · 06:16 PM

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Also, I disagree about it being accepted that proc upgrades are a waste of money. I know that Apple will be introducing new PMs soon that will be really nice. But being an experienced buyer, I know that I won't want the first round of those new machines. I want to wait until at LEAST the 2nd round so they can work out the initial kinks. Buying a proc upgrade for $500 now, allowing me to prolong the life of my current machine (which I've invested in) for maybe another year or so until I get a new one is worth it to me.

Well, there are two types of people who buy CPU upgrades for their machines:

1) Those who want to give their machine an extra kick, but are not concerned about making their older system as fast as new ones.

2) Those who DO want to take their aging rig and make it as fast as new ones.

If you have already invested time and money in your rig and peripherals for it, a CPU upgrade can be a smart choice.

But if you are wanting to turn a G4 350/10GB/CD-ROM/Rage 128 into a monster beast, it would be better to go with a new machine.

Either way, I will never agree with people who go for high end $700-$1,000+ CPU upgrades.

::maroma:: · Apr 21, 2003, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Well, there are two types of people who buy CPU upgrades for their machines:

1) Those who want to give their machine an extra kick, but are not concerned about making their older system as fast as new ones.

2) Those who DO want to take their aging rig and make it as fast as new ones.

If you have already invested time and money in your rig and peripherals for it, a CPU upgrade can be a smart choice.

But if you are wanting to turn a G4 350/10GB/CD-ROM/Rage 128 into a monster beast, it would be better to go with a new machine.

Either way, I will never agree with people who go for high end $700-$1,000+ CPU upgrades.

This I agree with. I am one of those people who don't need to have my machine be as fast as the newer ones. I understand that a processor upgrade will never make my aging machine top of the line again. This is my 2nd processor upgrade in my last 2 Macs. I was really satisfied with my last one, as it allowed me to get my current machine when I did. So far, I'm really satisfied with my new processor upgrade too. It's really quick (compared to my sctock proc), and its allowed me to completely ditch Classic (WC3 in X! woo!).

Now I'm hoping I can squeeze a little more speed out of my machine with the best video card I can get for it. But maybe my current GF3 is the best I'm going to get. (just want to get rid of this damned flicker!)

Xyphoid Process · Apr 23, 2003, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by bstone:
What is the best video card for OS X and games availbe for the Sawtooth? Raedon 8500? 9000? 9700 Pro?

Don't underestimate the value-for-money of a cheap fix. I replaced my Sawtooth's stock Rage with a flashed GeForce2MX a few months ago. The difference is significant (both games and every-day use) and the prices are dirt cheap. I'm not convinced that spending a lot on a high-end card is going to make a big difference over a flashed GF2 or GF3. You could probably find a GF2MX for $20 at a surplus store - can't get a much better payoff than that.

villalobos · Apr 24, 2003, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
I'd still say to get a better video card than the Rage 128 first, then worry about the CPU.

Being able to take advantage of Quartz Extreme will take a good amount of weight off of your CPU in OS X, and make your machine feel faster overal.

I had a G4 533/GeForce 3 and the clock speed of teh G4 didnt hurt the gaming experience much.

Well, my Radeon 8500 is waiting for my G4/533 in RTCW. It actually depends what game you are playing. RTCW multiplayer is definitely processor dependent. I did switch my 533 for a 1ghz for a little while and there was a great improvement. Definitely a good idea to get a better card, but if you wanna stay with the 533 I would say that a radeon is probably enough.
A good way to know if the game you are playing is card or processor limited. If it's the processor then you will not see much difference in fps between high and lower resolutions. If it's the card, then the higher resolutions will take a hit. it's not very scientific but should give you a good idea.

Also, i think that the 8500 and 9000 are fairly similar.

villa

BrettOZ · Jun 15, 2003, 11:49 PM

If you replace the Rage Pro in a 400MHz G4 Powermac with a 9000 can you run an Apple monitor via ADC? I have read the first version of Powermacs with AGP can not and you must use the DV port.

Is this correct?

tr · Jun 16, 2003, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by BrettOZ:
If you replace the Rage Pro in a 400MHz G4 Powermac with a 9000 can you run an Apple monitor via ADC? I have read the first version of Powermacs with AGP can not and you must use the DV port.

Is this correct?

you're right. the sawtooth mobo doesn't have the slot to power the ADC. you'll have to use the DVI.

tr

nereus · Jun 16, 2003, 12:23 PM

Probably related question:

Have: DP/500 & 17" "Studio Monitor" (I think it was called) -- Analog ADC connection. Stock video card.

Question: Are there any current video cards that can do Quartz Extreme that will work with this configuration? I'd prefer not to have to get a new monitor if possible, but upgrading to get better video perf would be a good thing.

'9000 above said it did ADC, but is that digital only?

Thanx...

bstone · Jun 16, 2003, 01:33 PM

I was able to find an ATI Radeon 8500 128mb card to work on my Sawtooth.

dfiler · Jun 17, 2003, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by bstone:
I was able to find an ATI Radeon 8500 128mb card to work on my Sawtooth.

Are you sure? I was under the impression that the 128mb version didn't work with the current drivers and ROM. There have been a handful of scattered reports of this working, but nobody in the flashing community was able to track down and confirm these stories...

On topic: For my dual 450, a flashed 8500 seemed the best option after considerable research. Its been running great for quite a few months now.

stuffedmonkey · Jun 17, 2003, 04:10 PM

I am currently using a flashed 8500 card in my 450 mHz G4, and I love it. At the time it was 97$, and I haven't had ANY trouble after I flashed the new rom.

On the Value vs Price front, I've been looking at those 800 mHz Gigadesigns cards.... they look nice for the money. Now to scrape up some more cash...

bstone · Jun 17, 2003, 06:29 PM

If you'd like to send me a private message I can relate to you my experiences in getting the Radeon 8500 128mb card to work. Next I think I will get the OWC 1.4ghz upgrade card.

dfiler · Jun 18, 2003, 07:11 AM

I'm not planning on upgrading but am still curious about the 128mb card. Since I haven't kept up on the GPU scene since upgrading my home computer, I don't know if flashed 128mb radeon 8500 are now common place.

If not, there are hundreds if not thousands of people who would be interested in the process you used... post away

ReggieX · Jun 18, 2003, 07:16 PM

Flashed 64M Radeon 8500

LeeG · Jun 21, 2003, 08:03 PM

flashed 64Mb 8500 - no problems for almost a year, works great, it waits for my machine. (AGP 500 G4)

Also curious about the gigadesigns....

Lee