[goldengoose7]

Reading all the main stream and even industry articles about the new G5 machine this morning leaves me angry yet again!

Why? 90% of them can't report on this story without tossing at least one wisecrack or barb in about Apple as a company, the MAC as a platform or the new machine itself. All the while having to tout their blessed WINTEL platform in one spinned manner or another.

The thing these Windows DRONES will never understand is that MAC users don't just care about the speed of their machine, they care about the speed of their productivity. (What a concept for a group of people that rarely create anything other than longer bookmark lists!)

The human speed element is one issue the WINTEL "MORONS" will never understand since they are likely to NEVER have an operating system that comes close to the ergonomic bliss of the typical MAC OS.

I don't care if Intel comes out with something faster than the custom dual 2GHZ G5 I just ordered! The fact those systems use Windows as their operating system makes any processing speed advantages MOOT. The downtime and lost productivity created by the use of MS's nightmare more than erases any speed advantages and then some.

The fact is, I can already mop the floor with the majority of Photoshop users who use the Windows platform when it comes to ability and productvity in my job as a graphic designer. The new G5 will just allow me to get that work done in 1/5 the time as the Windows wannabes instead of 1/2. ;o)

[Eug Wanker]

What articles?

[:XI:]

1. It's a Mac. Not MAC. MAC is Media Access Control, it's got something to do with networking.

2. Blah blah blah.

3. Blah.

[nvaughan3]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
What articles?

[goldengoose7]

Just click through most of the press listings at MACSURFER Headline news and read the articles that are not just copies of the PR Newswire report.

From The STREET:

""Apple clearly has great customer loyalty. But they just can't compete with Microsoft (MSFT:Nasdaq - news - commentary - research - analysis) and Intel (INTC:Nasdaq - news - commentary - research - analysis)," says one fund manager who asked to remain anonymous, calling Apple "a classic example" of a company on the losing end of long-term competitive pressure. "It's been a value stock for a long time. I think we made the decision a long time back on sticking with winners," says the manager. "

PC Advisor:

"The new Power Macs get a facelift, too ? they sport a striking new aluminium case design that incorporates nine separate fans and a computer-controlled cooling system to manage the heat output from the new motherboard architecture. "

Notice the question mark after facelift?

The jabs are added very stealthly.

The Inquirer:

"Apple's G5 benchmarks come under scrutiny

Comparing Apples with Peaches

By INQUIRER staff: Tuesday 24 June 2003, 10:43

"Tomorrow AMD will change the world and I'm not Steve Jobs, so we're going to change the real world" - AMD's Jerry Sanders III at the launch of the Lateron in Spring"

I could go on, but why bother?

These idiots are content to stay in their mindwarp of clugy virus infested work environments, so why try and change their minds?

P.S. Mac, MAC who fricking cares?

STFU!

[Brazuca]

Originally posted by nvaughan3:

wow, we are digging deep in here to make Bush look good. I mean, "population in counties won by Bush/Gore"? That is a sad way of quoting a statistic.

[awcopus]

...the articles...they're everywhere....crawling over everything...up my leg....oh no....help....helllllppppp

[goldengoose7]

I think I just remembered why I stopped posting on here 3 years ago.

[nvaughan3]

Notice the question mark after facelift?

The jabs are added very stealthly.

BWHAHAHAH!!!

[DeathMan]

MAC is wrong. Its just wrong. It means something totally different in this same tech-language. Use Mac. MAC is an acronym. Mac is an abbreviation. PC is not Pc. that looks wrong. So does MAC.

Why not just change the way to write Mac, and no one will get on your case. Plus the ? after facelift is just a charachter that your browser can't read. So it shows a question mark.

Your usage of the very strong STFU terminology is uneeded, and if you acted like that 3 years ago, I could see why people would pressure you to stop posting.

[InterfaceGuy]

Originally posted by goldengoose7:
The thing these Windows DRONES will never understand is that MAC users don't just care about the speed of their machine, they care about the speed of their productivity. (What a concept for a group of people that rarely create anything other than longer bookmark lists!)

I don't understand why we have this bashing on either side. Can't we all just co-exist? I use both Macs and PCs. At home I only have an old B/W G3 but if I had $2k to spend I'd love to buy a new G5. But, I'm able to spend $400 every 6 months and have a top of the line PC. I'm not sure what all of your bashing is about the speed of productivity on a PC. Windows XP is just as stable as OSX and its just as easy to move around the OS. The only times my system at home has crashed has been when I overclocked it too far. Now I'm gonna have to spend $300 to put a new cpu in my G3 so I can run 10.3.

[Nebrie]

Hah, AMD thinks they have a tomorrow. They have less than a year's worth of cash left. They couldn't build a new fab if they wanted to.

[Scotttheking]

Originally posted by Nebrie:
Hah, AMD thinks they have a tomorrow. They have less than a year's worth of cash left. They couldn't build a new fab if they wanted to.

AMD dying would be A VERY BAD THING

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
AMD dying would be A VERY BAD THING

Unless other companies bought AMD's intellectual property at bargain prices.

Of course, I'd hate to see AMD go under because I respect them and I can't be cavalier about thousands of families out of work.

I'm just saying that it woudln't necessarily be horrible for the industry provided that their technology advancements didn't go away along with the corporate entity.

HyperTransport being owned by Apple might be a wonderful thing. Or Opteron.

But let's hope AMD continues to innovate, produce and profit. I like that idea best

[exa]

AMD, oh evil AMD, why did they have to release good x86 processors that caused Intel to compete causing a megahertz war and as a side effect cause the PPC to really lag behind?

[Nebrie]

"SPL's">Soapbox has just released a very damning analysis of the Apple SPEC test results too. " -extremetech

It's irritating how many articles/people seem to be referencing or basing their argument on this extremely flawed article without raising a single question. Bad journalism based on bad journalism. What is this? The NY Times or Fox News?


AMD dying would be a bad thing, just tired of reading rants by screaming monkey AMD fanboys and AMD's snide remarks at Apple today. Plus, they started the megahertz war. Intel seems to have slowed down once AMD did. But seriously, unless they can pull an Steve or put out dirt cheap crummy processors as they did before the Athlon, they're in deep trouble. Me and my friend both had a K6, worst processor ever!!!

[power142]

I wouldn't say that AMD, who is collaborating with IBM at the same Fishkill plant that produces G5 chips, is particularly at risk regardless of its financial performance - think deeper about why IBM might be interested in such a collaboration....

[scottiB]

Let them piss and moan about benchmarks. Wait till real world tests come in August-September: Maya rendering (with global illumination), MPEG encoding (can't wait for another DV magazine bake-off with After Effects). I bet the G5 will be the winner (especially with Alti-vec apps).

One year from now: 2x3Ghz.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by exa:
AMD, oh evil AMD, why did they have to release good x86 processors that caused Intel to compete causing a megahertz war and as a side effect cause the PPC to really lag behind?

I was thinking about this a few days ago:

1) AMD came out with the Athlon in an effort to bring themselves up from the brink of bankruptcy. The Athlon proved to be the first real threat to Intels crown and quickly helped grow AMD in ways far beyond what they had hoped. The Athlon also proved to be an awesome chip by way of its abilty to scale upward on the clock speed front faster than the Pentium 3 or any other consumer chip at the time. Intel answered the call of AMD, and thus the clock speed war began. Unfortunately, this coincided with the 500MHz G4 barrier on the Mac side, thus causing the MHz gap that came to exist for years.

2) In an effort to keep up with AMDs continued clock speed increases, Intel releases the Pentium 4 which ends up proving to be a betterscaling chip than the Athlon, a far cry from the dead-and-falling Pentium 3 which was at the time stuck at a little over 1GHz. Intels release of the Pentium 4 unfortunately coincided with the clock speed problems with the Athlon, putting AMD much further behind than they had anticipated happening. The result of this is AMDs gradual loss of high-end sales because of MHz minded consumers and the beginning of AMDs cash bleed.

3) At 3GHz, Intel feels more than confident with their almost 1GHz lead over AMD, and stops pushing the Pentium 4 upward for well over 6 months. Because of this move on Intels part, Apple and IBM are inadvertantly given critial catch up time. All the while, AMD continues to bleed cash.

4) The PPC 970 is dropped, not totally erasing the MHz gap, but catching the Apple world up with AMD atleast.

5) What will most likely happen now is IBM will come to represent as much of a threat in the eyes of Intel as AMD did, and Intel will again start ramping up the clock speed of the Pentium 4 while stranded AMD falls further and further behind because of delays to the Athlon64 and Opteron production problems. Because of this, I am afriad that AMD might not be around late next year.

So, to summarize:

It is entirely possible that the Athlon alone caused AMDs comeback in the late 90's, the MHz war, the G4-x86 GHz gap that has kept Apple from growing, the Pentium 4s release, the GHz gap between AMD and Intel, the Pentium vs Athlon price war that is the biggest contributor to AMDs bleeding of cash and the perception that Macs are riddiculously expensive, the oppurtunity for Apple/IBM to catch up to the x86 world with the PPC 970, and a likely clock speed war between IBM and Intel that will likely put AMD into a grave.

Ironic considering that the Athlon was made to save AMD in the K-6 days, which it very well may have done. And now it may end up becoming the reason that AMD goes under.

Though, I of course want to see AMD around for a long time to come, I love AMD. But things arent looking good.

[klinux]

Agrred. AMD with its Athlon and Duron gave a pretty good fight and but is fading .

You also forgot the effect it has on CPU pricing! AMD forced Intel to drop its price faster.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by klinux:
Agrred. AMD with its Athlon and Duron gave a pretty good fight and but is fading .

You also forgot the effect it has on CPU pricing! AMD forced Intel to drop its price faster.

We had the same thought at the same time.

[rytc]

I have to agree when the only coverage you get in the mainstream media here is stories such as:

Quote:
Microsoft phasing out Internet Explorer for Mac

Microsoft will no longer make new versions of its widely used Internet Explorer for Apple Computer's Macintosh.

Apple, which ceded the computer desktop to Microsoft's Windows operating system years ago, recently launched a new Web browser called Safari that it claims is faster and better at navigating and displaying Web content.
end quote

And that's all! Nary a word of any product release etc from Apple. I'm sure that they'd argue that Apple users make up too small a % of readership to bother with Apple news but then why bother with the occasional doom and gloom Apple is going down the sinkhole articles.....Its pretty obvious to me why....

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by :XI::
1. It's a Mac. Not MAC. MAC is Media Access Control, it's got something to do with networking.

2. Blah blah blah.

3. Blah.

Agreed. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing the "morons" on both sides blowing smoke. It's counterproductive to the discussions we SHOULD be having on forums

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Nebrie:
Hah, AMD thinks they have a tomorrow. They have less than a year's worth of cash left. They couldn't build a new fab if they wanted to.

This would all be a problem if IBM wasn't just giving away a fab to AMD after they finish building it. Seems AMD has IBM support lately.

[Stratus Fear]

Gee, some of you guys don't give AMD too much credit. Pay attention to the Opteron. If it starts to get the IT support that it needs to grow, I think everyone will jump ship. The Xeon pales in comparison to the Opteron, and the Itanium pales in a number of marks and real world applications. If AMD gains a good bit of the server market, this could pull them back up quite a bit since there's big money to be made there. This could also somewhat indirectly affect the desktop front.

Also, don't be too quick to give the PPC970 the thumbs up over the other offerings. Apple's SPEC scores were quited fudged, but they don't have an optimized compiler like Intel does in ICC, either. It's Altivec unit is also inferior to the one in the G4 family (check out ArsTechnica for a complete in-depth review of the PPC970 architecture). This may hold it back a bit, as Altivec was sort of "tacked on" to the 970 core. Despite the fast bus that Apple has in the G5 machines, current memory technology is holding it back (Dual DDR400 still has less bandwidth than the 1GHz bus). Also, the AMD64 processors are EXTREMELY fast at lower frequencies than the 970s. It might be safe to say that the Opteron, and possibly the Athlon 64 will be at least as fast, if not faster at the same clock. Intel, as always, won't be far behind. By the time the 3GHz 970s are around, I don't doubt Intel will already have an answer, likely released before Apple can even get the 3GHz ones out.

Either way, people shouldn't worry so much about which one is faster. The market just works this way.

[businezguy]

Let's just say that Intel pours more marketing dollars into the media then Apple. This shouldn't be in the least surprising. The same goes with Microsoft.

Apple is truly the underdog versus the 800lb gorilla.

[klinux]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:

Either way, people shouldn't worry so much about which one is faster. The market just works this way.

Agreed. Want Mac - buy G5. Want Windows/Linux - buy x86. Faster G5 means faster Mac experience. Faster x86 means faster x86 experience. It really is simple until Apple threw down the gauntlet!

Plus, any discussion of G5 system vs <whatever> is ultimately futile until G5 ships so people can do their own benchmarking and debate ad infinitum.

[clarkgoble]

The Opteron won't be a big mover until the 64bit WindowsXP is out or a 64-bit Redhat. (Yes I know SUSE has a version out)

But it does scream. It's just not that significant right now. We'll see when the Athalon-64 arives though. That's the one that's everyone is excited about. However even the Athalon hasn't improved market share that much. I like them. I have a Athalon 2400 in my PC and my office mate has a dual 2400. However despite only have a dual 867 Mac, I use the Mac for everything except programming. OSX simply makes it better.

But the Opterons are very nice. Probably about 10 - 20% faster than a G5. That's why some people were saying Apple ought to use them, despite the obvious emulation problems.

[GK]

Originally posted by goldengoose7:
Reading all the main stream and even industry articles about the new G5 machine this morning leaves me angry yet again!

Why? 90% of them can't report on this story without tossing at least one wisecrack or barb in about Apple as a company, the MAC as a platform or the new machine itself. All the while having to tout their blessed WINTEL platform in one spinned manner or another.

The thing these Windows DRONES will never understand is that MAC users don't just care about the speed of their machine, they care about the speed of their productivity. (What a concept for a group of people that rarely create anything other than longer bookmark lists!)

The human speed element is one issue the WINTEL "MORONS" will never understand since they are likely to NEVER have an operating system that comes close to the ergonomic bliss of the typical MAC OS.

I don't care if Intel comes out with something faster than the custom dual 2GHZ G5 I just ordered! The fact those systems use Windows as their operating system makes any processing speed advantages MOOT. The downtime and lost productivity created by the use of MS's nightmare more than erases any speed advantages and then some.

The fact is, I can already mop the floor with the majority of Photoshop users who use the Windows platform when it comes to ability and productvity in my job as a graphic designer. The new G5 will just allow me to get that work done in 1/5 the time as the Windows wannabes instead of 1/2. ;o)

What do the Mothers Against Circumsicion (MAC) have to do with this ??

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by GK:
What do the Mothers Against Circumsicion (MAC) have to do with this ??

YOWZA! Some of those pictures are... YOWZA!

[JB72]

Originally posted by scottiB:
Let them piss and moan about benchmarks. Wait till real world tests come in August-September: Maya rendering (with global illumination), MPEG encoding (can't wait for another DV magazine bake-off with After Effects). I bet the G5 will be the winner (especially with Alti-vec apps).

One year from now: 2x3Ghz.

This pretty much says it all. Let the trolls and philistines pout all they want, as long as there are still some G5s left for me.

[wingdo]

Originally posted by nvaughan3:
States won by Gore 19, by Bush 29

Being there are 50 states plus D.C., who won the other 3 states?

[icruise]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
YOWZA! Some of those pictures are... YOWZA!

My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
The Opteron won't be a big mover until the 64bit WindowsXP is out or a 64-bit Redhat. (Yes I know SUSE has a version out)

But it does scream. It's just not that significant right now. We'll see when the Athalon-64 arives though. That's the one that's everyone is excited about. However even the Athalon hasn't improved market share that much. I like them. I have a Athalon 2400 in my PC and my office mate has a dual 2400. However despite only have a dual 867 Mac, I use the Mac for everything except programming. OSX simply makes it better.

But the Opterons are very nice. Probably about 10 - 20% faster than a G5. That's why some people were saying Apple ought to use them, despite the obvious emulation problems.

64-bit servers aren't the only place the Opterons shine. Plenty of existing 32-bit server software and 32-bit databases could make great use of them until 64-bit availability is much better.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally posted by goldengoose7:

The thing these Windows DRONES will never understand is that MAC users don't just care about the speed of their machine, they care about the speed of their productivity. (What a concept for a group of people that rarely create anything other than longer bookmark lists!)

Exactly. Many PC users look at tech specs and how many frame rates they can get. Pathetic to spend $2000 + to play doom.

[nvaughan3]

I have to agree when the only coverage you get in the mainstream media here is stories such as:....

You are obviously not looking hard enough then.

http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/...amp;p=apple+g5


Apple Unveils G5 Computer, Doubles Power
Reuters - Jun 23 8:36 PM

Apple Unveils G5 Computers
PC World - Jun 23 8:00 PM

Apple Unveils G5 Chip, Itunes Hits 5 Million Downloads
Reuters - Jun 23 3:24 PM

Apple Unveils Next-Generation Desktop
AP - Jun 23 6:34 PM

Apple Unveils New 64-Bit Power Macintosh
AP - Jun 24 8:08 AM




Give up yet?

However even the Athalon hasn't improved market share that much.

First, its athlon. Second, yes they have improved their market share, quite dramatically. Their recent share has decreased somewhat, but mostly as a result of oversupply.

[rytc]

Originally posted by nvaughan3:
You are obviously not looking hard enough then.
Give up yet?

Well I'm not doubting they're not some good stories out there on the internet, but for those who just read the NZ Herald, watch TV One news then my point was this is all the news they get on the Mac. You'd have to agree that the average Joe doesn't know what OS X/G5 are let alone even look for news on it.

cheers Ry

[nvaughan3]

Your average local TV news show has 22 minutes to give you:

1. Local news, politics, weather, construction, accidents, crime, features, etc.
2. National news, including political issues, court rulings, etc.
3. International news, including the war on iraq and the campaign against terrorism.

There is no room for a product announcement, for the most part. Most folks would not care. It has no broad based interest. Unless it has extraordinarily good PR people behind it. Segway was one example. Interestingly, the apple music store was another, but I don't recall many folks complaining about that coverage.

Newspapers are much the same way. A typical newspaper might have 8-20 inside pages in the national (A) section. Depending on the paper, much of it is local news. Then you've got the editorial page. Then you've got the obit page. Then you gotta figure that (1/4-1/2 of each page are advertisements. After including the leadoff inside page which typically includes briefs about interesting stories that are easy to digest, you've got to include the same national and international stuff that the TV folks have to. Not much room for press release on the introduction of a new computer, unless it spins in circles and wipes your ass for you.