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zen · Jun 24, 2003, 09:21 PM

I'm in the market for a G5. I was going to upgrade my 333 Mhz iMac to a 1 Ghz eMac but I've figured I may as well go the whole hog

So I'm totally happy with the way the bottom 1.6 Ghz G5 looks...specs are way more than what I got, are way more than what I will use it for, and the price seems like good value. And I love the case

The question is: do put myself down for one come August/September, or wait for the second revision? I think people have been burned by Rev A hardware in the past, but as far as I can recall, Apple haven't really had any duff machines in recent years. Gone are the days of "Road Apples" (yeah, I had a fantastically expensive 5200 and we all know what kind of machine that was)

Thoughts?

Zen

NYCFarmboy · Jun 24, 2003, 09:39 PM

I just got a 1.42 dual a few months ago, so won't be updating soon, but my sister wants a new Mac and we are going to go with the 1.6 G5 for her in August.

I saw that 1.42's are 400 bucks off at like Maczone.com though.

(no longer avail on apple's website).

SciFrog · Jun 24, 2003, 11:35 PM

Well in 6 months the top end should be at 2.5Ghz. I think the real question is "will the rev2 mid model be dual"?

I think so and will wait for it, just going to upgrade my Cube to 1.2Ghz while waiting. The August shipping date is the main reason for me, I would have bought a top end if available right now. August? No thank you I'll wait for a rev2 G5 or a G5 Powerbook.

clarkgoble · Jun 25, 2003, 02:30 AM

Personally I think the high prices are partially due to pent up demand along with limited supplies. (Yeah, yeah, I know I'm repeating myself)

Why do I bring this up? Because if you can wait until Christmas then more production and the easing of that initial demand along with stiff PC competition will almost certainly cause a price drop. Further by then there will be more programs using 64 bits and the inevitable problems of a brand new chipset and motherboard design will be fixed.

If there aren't at least one or two "doh" problems I'll be shocked. (Already there is the complaint about only two drive bays, although that's not a big problem for most people - although I have my Mac maxed out)

Anyway, I was dreaming up creative ways to convince my fiancee to let me get one of the new ones. Then I realized that for 95% of what I use my dual 867 for, it is adequate. So I can afford to wait.

Waiting for Panther now. That'll be much harder. (New Finder, New Finder...)

TC · Jun 25, 2003, 02:58 AM

After being stung buying a rev 1 B&W G3 (crap IDE implementation and failed firewire ports) and a rev 1 G4 Powerbook (crap firewire speeds) I think I'll wait for a rev 2 on this.

There are a lot of new technologies in there that might need further tinkering.

It just scares me that we might not be seeing a G5 Powerbook for a long time and I can't go back to be chained to one location.

techweenie1 · Jun 25, 2003, 10:41 AM

According to the PDF on the G5, the video card has a ADC (Apple Display Connector) and the DVI, why are they going back to the ADC from the VGA that they had on the previous B&W G3s and G4s?

Scotttheking · Jun 25, 2003, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by techweenie1:
According to the PDF on the G5, the video card has a ADC (Apple Display Connector) and the DVI, why are they going back to the ADC from the VGA that they had on the previous B&W G3s and G4s?

They have had ADC since the G4. Newer cards have DVI instead of ADC, and they have a DVI-VGA adaptor.

I've been screwed by the same B&W problem and Ti problem as listed above.
However, with my Ti, it died so many times that apple gave me a new rev 2

I'm going to wait and see if anyone sees problems before buying, but probably won't go as far as wait for rev 2, if I am going to buy at all.

DeathMan · Jun 25, 2003, 02:28 PM

Don't wait for the Rev 2 if the Rev1 doesn't seem to have any problems. I wouldn't preorder a Rev 1 though. So don't wait just to wait. Wait to see if there are any problems with the new machines.

Most of the problems should come out withing the first month or so. I know thats how it is with the ipods. I got a new ipod, and it has some little weird glitches. But you should know abou the problems with in a couple of weeks. Solutions should show up withing a month or so.

Long term problems usually show up on things like screen (laptops) and battery problems (laptops), hinge problems (laptops) paint/finish problems (laptops).

Does anyone have an example of a problem with a tower that wasn't readily noticable? Just wondering. It seems like its the portables that show problems after a while.

-Q- · Jun 25, 2003, 02:31 PM

I'm planning on being the guinea pig for you all: I ordered mine the day they were announced.

Taking a bit of a chance, but that's why I back things up.

kentuckyfried · Jun 25, 2003, 03:10 PM

I'm REALLY REALLY tempted to get one even though I got burned by my BW g3 on a couple of occasions (g3 processor dying right after the 1 year warranty ran out, diffculty in getting hard drives to mount, memory incompatibilities, you name it).

I just want one even though I don't need one per se.

I'm going to try and lose the 733 G4 I got a few months ago pre-owned b/c it's got some really buggy memory problems as well it appears, I don't know if I'll be able to fix them in the next few weeks. Kernal panics practically every other day.

Thain Esh Kelch · Jun 25, 2003, 04:15 PM

Well... First off all, Steve promised 3.0 Ghz in 12 months, so that'll mean 2.5 Ghz in 6 months = Rev b.
Second of all, many people have complained about 1 optic drive ONLY, and two harddrives only. I expect Apple to make enough room to fit atleast an optical drive more...
And then there's the usual flaws in Rev A..

On top of that, Apple's has always had problems with the antennas in Rev. A's.. Be that portable or desktop..

Oh, and Apple can get away with these high prices because people will pay them, so maybe Rev. B will be 100-200 dollars cheaper. (Dont count on it though)

thunderous_funker · Jun 25, 2003, 04:24 PM

To me, the real promise of greatness from the G5 architecture is in dual processor systems.

Sure, you can buy a single G5 system and (arguably) feel like you're competitive with what's out there in the P4 universe, but spend $600 more and you're suddenly in "High Country" of world-class unix workstations.

I suspect the dual-cpu will make it's way to the mid-range Mac by the end of the year. At least I hope so.

I'm also hoping for a larger tower for obvious storage reasons, although Apple might consider me an XSErve customer for wanting that.

I wouldn't be surprised to see me throwing down for a shiney new G5 around xmas time

OreoCookie · Jun 25, 2003, 04:24 PM

I would wait for the sole purpose to get a dualie. There's no way I can afford those 3,300 Euros. And to take a single G5 defeats the purpose.

k2director · Jun 25, 2003, 04:27 PM

I would never get a single processor G5 when the dual is just sitting there, beckoning me.

I have never been much of a desktop guy, but this machine is so impressive that I think I'll end up with one. With a 23" Cinema Display (though I might wait to see if rumors of new display cases prove correct).

badtz · Jun 25, 2003, 05:01 PM

IMO, I'll be waiting for the 90nm versions. Hopefully in the 2nd revision.

zigzag · Jun 25, 2003, 09:01 PM

zen, I share your thinking. I don't really need a dual or the PCI-X - the base model would suit me just fine, probably more than I need, and it's a sweet overall design.

I'm partial to quiet, so I've avoided towers in favor of a Cube and a FP iMac. But if this new tower is as quiet as they say, I'm sold.

The odds of getting a lemon appear to be low, but why take the chance. I figure I'll wait until the first machines are delivered, see how they perform, and then order/buy if there are no problems. My bet is that even if you wait, you'll be able to get one within a month of the people who are ordering now. So all you lose by waiting is maybe a month (knock on wood).

I might wait until Rev. B - Panther will be installed free (a savings of $140 with tax), there'll be a performance bump and/or price reduction, and the bugs'll be worked out. But even Rev. B machines can have problems, so I wouldn't wait for that reason alone.

Of course, having said all that, the first time I see one in person I'll probably buy on impulse.

itai195 · Jun 26, 2003, 12:44 AM

If I had a 333 MHz iMac, I'd be buying... doesn't matter which model, even a 1.6GHz G5 would be a huge upgrade.

Personally, I've got a dual 867MHz G4. While the G5's are tempting, I'll have to echo what others here have said. I want to get a dual G5 machine, so I'm hoping Rev B or Rev C have a midrange dual processor model. Of course, I'm not sure about my ability to hold out come August when these new machines start popping up in stores...

Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 26, 2003, 12:48 AM

I am waiting for the next round as I want a mid model with Dual chips.

I also bet that low end one will be gone and have all the same guts as the 2 higher ones in the next round.

DeathMan · Jun 26, 2003, 01:12 AM

Any of these machines would be an upgrade for me (or anyone, I'm sure) but the actual LUST is for the Double Deuce.

Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 26, 2003, 01:31 AM

Any machine to replace my beloved Cube better be damn perfect!

DeathMan · Jun 26, 2003, 01:32 AM

Cubes are soooo nice. It was the first Mac I almost felt physical pain because I couldn't have it. I still have hope for the G5, but I knew in my heart that I would never have a cube.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jun 26, 2003, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by DeathMan:
Cubes are soooo nice. It was the first Mac I almost felt physical pain because I couldn't have it. I still have hope for the G5, but I knew in my heart that I would never have a cube.

No matter the price I would never get rid of it. I would rather have it sitting on the shelf looking sexy then get a grand for it.

Eple · Jun 27, 2003, 09:09 AM

I'm still running my Rev A 400mhz G4, and am quite happy to say that the only problems I've had with this machine have been caused by my tinkering with cheap Ram upgrades!
Anyway, after more than 3 years of total satisfaction with this machine I'm really looking into getting the dual G5 machine. This time around I'll be getting Apple care just in case! So why wait until Rev B, when you can just spend a little extra and have 3 year warranty???

dav · Jun 27, 2003, 05:00 PM

i'm waiting till jan'04... hoping for a tenth anniversary powermac or twentieth anniversary mac or whatever the rumor of the week is.

starman · Jun 27, 2003, 05:49 PM

With that mention of 3GHz by next year, I'm going to wait.

Mike

eggman · Jun 28, 2003, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by starman:
With that mention of 3GHz by next year, I'm going to wait.

At which point you'll be hearing about the development of a 5Ghz model the following year...

Cipher13 · Jun 28, 2003, 02:55 AM

I'll never, ever buy a revision A machine.

Ever.

samslaves · Jun 28, 2003, 03:08 AM

I'm without a mac from march, when I sold my g4 pumped PM9600 MP (---> MP!) and g4 pumped Beige. So revA revB... who care? Is g5 out in august (end?) ? Well, I'll buy one in september! I'm in a sort of abstinence crisis. I wanna a mac! I wanna a maaaaac!

What about new monitors?

Sam

Maflynn · Jun 28, 2003, 06:59 AM

I have a QS dual Gig, really a nice machine pretty quiet, at least in comparison to the windtunnels, but I'm drooling over the G5's.

I find myself at apple.com and configuring a new G5 all the time. I don't need a new G5 but I'll probably buy one now rather then wait, heck if by next year they do go to 3ghz I can always put it up on ebay or the macnn marketplace, thats where my G4 may end up.

Mike

silverlode · Jun 28, 2003, 07:45 AM

First let's clear up the misinfomation on ADC posted above. ADC is not the same as the two-row, 15-pin VGA that Apple had in its '040 and early PPC machines. It's just digital video plus USB and power. Current machines come with a card that has ADC and DVI ports. OK.

In regards to lemon rev. A machines, what about the 17" powerbook? I have not heard of any issues with that computer. I know the G5 has a lot of new technologies, but it just seems like Apple's QC has gotten better in the last few years. The only thing I don't like is the 1.6 G5. It truly seems like a bastard child - sure it's got the new chip, BUT no PCI-X, slower RAM, less RAM, etc. I'm either getting a dual 1.25G4 or the 1.8G5. Leaning towards the 1.8.

Commodus · Jun 28, 2003, 08:49 AM

I'm so horribly torn that it's funny. On one hand is the pragmatic, realistic side of me. I have a 15" PowerBook that I only got late last year, and in terms of OS X it's just fine. I ought to wait for initial bugs and/or a revision that gets me more for the money.

On the other hand is the impulsive bit: I want to get a 1.8 GHz G5 ASAP, and (as I have no real place to put the system) get new furniture and everything.

Simon · Jun 28, 2003, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by silverlode:
The only thing I don't like is the 1.6 G5. It truly seems like a bastard child - sure it's got the new chip, BUT no PCI-X, slower RAM, less RAM, etc. I'm either getting a dual 1.25G4 or the 1.8G5. Leaning towards the 1.8.

Then get the 1.8GHz.

And just because the 1.6GHz is a bastard I would never get a dual 1.25GHz G4. The 1.6GHz will blow its socks off.

jguidroz · Jun 28, 2003, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by TC:
After being stung buying a rev 1 B&W G3 (crap IDE implementation and failed firewire ports) and a rev 1 G4 Powerbook (crap firewire speeds) I think I'll wait for a rev 2 on this.

There are a lot of new technologies in there that might need further tinkering.

It just scares me that we might not be seeing a G5 Powerbook for a long time and I can't go back to be chained to one location.

I purchased a B&W G3/300 rev.1 when they were first announced. I've never run into any IDE problems. For a while, I thought my firewire ports were dead. I tried using my firewire burner, and it would never be recognized. Then I don't know if it was an X update or what, but I tried again some time later, and my burner was recognized and worked like a charm. As for as the IDE, I kept reading that you couldn't run two drives on rev.1 machines, but I had been running two hard drives for a while when I had read that.

The only problem I had with this machine is the video card frying a week after I got it, but that was replaced under warranty.

As for as the G5, well I would buy one if I had the money. I think I'll wait till next summer when they should have either a 970 or 980 in the powerbooks.

coolmacdude · Jun 28, 2003, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by starman:
With that mention of 3GHz by next year, I'm going to wait.

I was actually really surprised Steve put that in there. Apple has historically never said anything about future products because they want to avoid that type of thinking in customers.

Eriamjh · Jun 28, 2003, 07:23 PM

I consider the 1.6GHz version a Yikes machine of sorts. I would opt for the 1.8GHz machine.

My DP800 is barely 15 months old (since I bought it refurbed after the dual Gigs were released). I haven't scratched the surface of its potential. I'll stick with it through Panther since I heard it is a speed bump for all supported machines. After Panther, unless 10.4 is more optimized and makes my DP800 feel even faster, I'll think about upgrading...

Eug Wanker · Jun 28, 2003, 07:38 PM

Maybe I'll get a single 2.2 GHz mid-range tower after MWSF '04. (Not that I actually need it.

)

Somehow I doubt the mid-range will have a dual. With the speed of the G5 PPC 970, if you really do need the dual, it's probably because you probably want all the speed you can get because you're doing some hard core number crunching. Otherwise, the dual is probably superfluous.

CubieDubbie · Jun 28, 2003, 08:22 PM

Here I thought about waiting. That was till I placed my order for the middle of the line G5 today. So much for waiting. And no matter what it is not cheap!!!! Try filling this puppy with memory, whoops it does run up the costs!!!

CubieDubbie · Jun 29, 2003, 02:11 AM

Cipher13,
how are you?????? Hope all is well!!!! You are most likely right but, I admit I had the bug and went ahead. I hope it will be a good machine. We shall see. The Dual was way more than I wanted to spend, that was the biggest reason why I went for the middle machine this time!@!! Be good hear!!!

jcadam · Jun 29, 2003, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by Eple:
I'm still running my Rev A 400mhz G4, and am quite happy to say that the only problems I've had with this machine have been caused by my tinkering with cheap Ram upgrades!
Anyway, after more than 3 years of total satisfaction with this machine I'm really looking into getting the dual G5 machine. This time around I'll be getting Apple care just in case! So why wait until Rev B, when you can just spend a little extra and have 3 year warranty???

I will never buy AppleCare. All extended warranties are rip-offs. No exceptions.

Truepop · Jun 29, 2003, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
I'll never, ever buy a revision A machine.

Ever.

Is it a revision if it is the first time for production of the machine?

Gul Banana · Jun 29, 2003, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by jcadam:
I will never buy AppleCare. All extended warranties are rip-offs. No exceptions.

AppleCare has so far gotten me a new keyboard, power supply, and RAM for my iBook, for free, with 24-hour turnarounds... I'm alarmed at the rate of parts failure in the thing (though I do use it heavily), but pleased by the quality of AppleCare.

...mind you, I got AppleCare free since I bought it education

CubieDubbie · Jun 29, 2003, 10:52 PM

I agree with you to a point. Applecare did zero for my iBook laptop. I ending up giving that away. Other than that I can't complain about it much!!!! Oh except one occaision. I had my 17 inch monitor in for repair. Seven months before Apple called. We will be shipping you a new one tomorrow morning. She caught me so off guard I was absolutely nice about it.

SpasticNytzzz · Jun 30, 2003, 12:14 AM

AppleCare is free if you buy through education? I'm planning on buying a 1.8 GHz G5 with 20" Cinema Display soon with an education discount, and I wasn't aware of this. Do you have to fill something out?

CubieDubbie · Jun 30, 2003, 12:24 AM

I don't know about that one. I out all the memory I could in that puppy and that and the best video card they had for it, and I will be forgoing Christmas this year!!!!

Steve · Jun 30, 2003, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by jcadam:
I will never buy AppleCare. All extended warranties are rip-offs. No exceptions.

Just wait until you have a laptop that needs $800 logic board repairs, then a week later, needs a new screen for $900. You'll be wishing you had AppleCare, and thankful that you did have it.

Getting extended warranties on laptops is a Good Thing(tm), no matter what way you look at it. It may be different on a desktop, since they are put through much less abuse, and the parts arent' prone to break as easily as a laptop.

stefls · Jun 30, 2003, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by Steve:
Just wait until you have a laptop that needs $800 logic board repairs, then a week later, needs a new screen for $900. You'll be wishing you had AppleCare, and thankful that you did have it.

Getting extended warranties on laptops is a Good Thing(tm), no matter what way you look at it. It may be different on a desktop, since they are put through much less abuse, and the parts arent' prone to break as easily as a laptop.

If you want to play safe, it is a "Good Thing(tm)", but don't forget that after your 1-year limited warranty has expired, this does NOT mean that every single failure of your machine has to be repaired at the owner's cost! As a consumer you also have rights that are based on reasonability. An LCD should not die after one and a half year under normal use. If it does, you should negotiate with the selling party (Apple Store or another resaler) about the cost of repair and you'll very likely to save a lot of money. The seller sold you a product that was mend to last longer than one and a half year under normal circumstances. No matter what the hardware vendor's warranty-policy is. Bear in mind: even the Apple Store, with its quite rigid policy, will be susceptible of your arguments provided these are reasonable. This, I found out for myself when my iBook's battery died after 15 months: at first, they wanted me to buy a new one (and you know what these thingies cost...). After letting them know that I was aware of consumer rights and 'reasonability' they put me through to the consumer service dept. and it didn't take us long to agree upon them sending me a replacement battery and me paying only for it's shipping (this was even better than I actually expected).

In short: a one year limited warranty legally does not mean as much as you might think (regarding the seller-consumer relationship). Claim your rights and be firm. You'll be fine and it can save you a lot of money (results may vary in different countries

).

Well, to get back on topic. Just buy a rev. A G5 or 15,4" PB if you need or want it and don't buy AppleCare, it's just another good moneymaker for Apple. Just my 2C.

BZ · Jun 30, 2003, 07:02 AM

It is very hard to wait for RevB but I am going to.

The G5 2Ghz, fits everything I could ever want, but I told my self that Jan/Feb 04 was when I was buying in. I actually wrote down the config of the machine I wanted a few months ago and it is exactly the 2Ghz machine.

Hopefully, by next Jan/Feb we will have the dual 2.X be the middle line and new set of prices and or model line on the LCDs. I wouldn't mind picking up a 22-24" for $1500.

Now I stick with my Sawtooth which I upgraded to a 1Ghz G4, 2 GB of Ram and a Radeon 8500. It will keep my happy till next year (hopefully).

BZ

todrain · Jun 30, 2003, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by stefls:
An LCD should not die after one and a half year under normal use. If it does, you should negotiate with the selling party (Apple Store or another resaler) about the cost of repair and you'll very likely to save a lot of money. The seller sold you a product that was mend to last longer than one and a half year under normal circumstances.

Good luck with that. Apple gave me a hard time getting feet for my iBook that was 2 WEEKs outside of the warranty period.

No reseller will take back (or repair at their expense) a 1.5 year old machine if you didn't spring for the warranty. Apple won't take the machine back, and the best the reseller can do with the machine is scrap it for parts.

If you can afford to make an expensive repair on your computer, then skip Applecare. If you have one significant problem, however, the cost of the warranty will be worth it.

DrBoar · Jul 1, 2003, 01:32 AM

The first G5 lineup is an odd one, were the top model gives most bang for the bucks!!! At 150% the price of the low end you get 250% the CPU performance 200% RAM, 200% HD space and a better graphical card and PCI-X.

My guess is that we will see a dual midrange at the same price as the current midrange and that the low end either will be a dual at current price or a speed bumped SP at a lower price point.

With the G3 it was the second generation (B&W) that really made the G3 shine, perhaps the same is true for G5

Arkham_c · Jul 1, 2003, 08:35 AM

I'm already getting my cash together for the dual 2GHz model. Yes, I too am a bit wary of the first model of a new mac, but Apple's record with desktops is better than with laptops. I think it'll be ok.

All the same, I may wait until Panther to buy it (maybe), just so I don't have to buy a $130 OS a month after I get a new Mac. Plus, Apple will have time to update the firmware once, fixing any critical bugs that would have pissed me off.

If these machines are not shipping until September (realistically), I would be surprised if the get speed-bumped at MWSF. I would guess March is a more realistic date for an update.