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nemanirc · Jun 25, 2003, 12:29 PM

I have seen that Pioneer has the DVR-106 out now. I have a DVR-104 in my B&W G3, and iDVD recognizes it and treats it like an Apple SuperDrive. I think the DVR-105 did the same thing. Has anyone tried the DVR-106 with iDVD yet?

Eriamjh · Jun 25, 2003, 08:29 PM

I think the DVR-106 is what comes with the new G5. It "should" work, but no guarantees.

I have the 105 in my DP800. No compatibility problems yet.

CIA · Jun 26, 2003, 06:51 AM

The G5 has a DVD-R/W drive in it. No +R/W suppport announced as of yet.

Nep2ne · Jul 2, 2003, 05:16 PM

I'm debating the 106 over the 105 but only due to the fact that on xlr8yourmac, folks have been able to burn and read +R and +RW disks. Not sure what the benefit, if anything will be. But you can pick up a 105 for under $200 these days....

kkant · Jul 5, 2003, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by CIA:
The G5 has a DVD-R/W drive in it. No +R/W suppport announced as of yet.

This is what Apple officially says. However, if you look at the superdrive specs in the recently published G5 dev doc, you will notice that the specs exactly match the new Pioneer A06 drive. Not the A05. If Apple is sticking with Pioneer, then it is almost certain that the G5's are shipping with the A06. The A06 has +R/RW capability in addition to -R/RW. So although Apple only officially supports -R, Mac users will most likely be able to burn +R as well. This is indeed good news for those of us who have other drives that can only read +R discs.

If you head over to xlr8yourmac.com, you will find that many folks are using current Pioneer and Sony +- "combo" drives in their Macs to burn +R discs, including using the Finder and iApps.

chatam · Jul 5, 2003, 12:53 PM

Heard that the Dvd on the G5 will be a Sony -RW/+RW emasculated so as not being capable of reading/writing +RW.

chatam · Jul 5, 2003, 12:58 PM

Sorry, forgot to cite the font, here it is (in French):

http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcon...03-07-04#6061:)

Commodus · Jul 5, 2003, 01:16 PM

I understand that Panther actually recognizes the 106 as an Apple-supported drive; so it might not necessarily be in the first iterations of the G5, the 6-month refresh version might get it.

kkant · Jul 5, 2003, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by chatam:
Heard that the Dvd on the G5 will be a Sony -RW/+RW emasculated so as not being capable of reading/writing +RW.

I doubt this. If you look at the specs of the Sony DRU510 and compare to the specs listed in the developer note, you will see that they are different at several points. Also, I don't trust MacBidoo on details--they were pretty far off on substantive details for the G5s.

No, I am pretty sure the drive will be the Pioneer A06. The "emasculation" (presumably through firmware) is an open question though, and a good point. Wouldn't it be so like Apple to needlessly cripple something just so people do things their way.

Hopefully either this will not be the case, or you can flash the firmware back to normal.

kkant · Jul 5, 2003, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by Commodus:
I understand that Panther actually recognizes the 106 as an Apple-supported drive; so it might not necessarily be in the first iterations of the G5, the 6-month refresh version might get it.

Don't think so. I think rev A will have the A06. The specs don't match for the A05.

Eriamjh · Jul 5, 2003, 06:01 PM

I don't know if Apple crippling +R/RW is through firmware or through software, but doesn't anyone remember when the Superdrive was first used, we found out it was a -RW drive but Apple just didn't support burning -RWs (or erasing them)?

I think they take it one step at time supporting new media. They don't want complaints from "borderline" compatibilities so they lock it out.

Support will come for +RW. It is here for USB 2.0 just about a year later than PCs.

kkant · Jul 5, 2003, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Eriamjh:
Support will come for +RW. It is here for USB 2.0 just about a year later than PCs.

Unfortunately, I don't believe Apple is withholding +R for reasons of cautious adoption. With USB 2, they just didn't have any new motherboards to put it in for a long time. But with +R, it has been around long enough and it is clear that the drives work. I think rather that Apple is trying to push the -R standard, through somewhat negative means.

Which I wouldn't care about except in principle, and more importantly except that I happen to have a reader that can only read +, not -.

So if Apple has crippled the hardware, I'll prolly ditch the superdrive and buy my own. It would appear that the crippling is done in firmware, not software--since people are burning +R today in the Finder and iApps.

DeathToWindows · Jul 8, 2003, 08:07 AM

Gah! That'll suck if apple cripples the 106.

CIA · Jul 8, 2003, 02:12 PM

I think it's a DVR-105, but I could see them going with a 106. Anyone out there with a test machine want to shine in on this? NDA's should've expired by now on the G5....
While it has happened in the past, it still makes no sense to me to cripple a product. Why remove the +R/RW features of a drive? Maybe Apple has some contract to promote the -R/RW format, but they can get the -/+ combo drives cheaper? Remember that the bottom line matters most. Best performance without breaking the bank. It would be really interesting if Apple got that great of a deal from a supplier. -/+ drives for less than the the cost of -R drives.

Also

Given that the Superdrive is on a ATA-100 bus, you could just ditch the superdrive and hook up another ATA based hard drive. Could be a solution to the hard drive issues video editors are having. (or are going to have, as nothing has shipped yet.)

Nep2ne · Jul 10, 2003, 01:38 PM

I just installed a DVR-105 in my new G4 dual 1.25 ... immediately seen by ASP as a CD-RW/DVD-RW drive. However, I could not get iDVD to install off of my iLife disks. I had to go through the trouble of mounting the image in terminal and installing "manually". After that, all works fine.

Oh -- and btw, avlogic.com has the DVR-105 (white) for the amazing price of $153.00!! Three bux less than I paid last week, drat

http://www.avlogic.com/

BenRoethig · Jul 10, 2003, 01:55 PM

With the exception of the ability to burn DVD+RW, aren't the specs of the A05/A06 the same?

Eug Wanker · 03:30 PM

Originally posted by kkant:
This is what Apple officially says. However, if you look at the superdrive specs in the recently published G5 dev doc, you will notice that the specs exactly match the new Pioneer A06 drive. Not the A05. If Apple is sticking with Pioneer, then it is almost certain that the G5's are shipping with the A06. The A06 has +R/RW capability in addition to -R/RW. So although Apple only officially supports -R, Mac users will most likely be able to burn +R as well. This is indeed good news for those of us who have other drives that can only read +R discs.

Your statement ignores the fact that Apple routinely removes features in certain drives, probably for the sake of consistency as well as reliability.

For instance they've firmware-crippled DVD-RAM support as well as 2X DVD-R write support out of the Matsushita UJ-815 laptop drive for ALL models of the SuperDrive PowerBooks, despite the fact that the drive itself supports DVD-RAM. In fact, DVD-RAM is a big selling feature of the drive for Matushita, and the format is their baby. Apple has also firmware-cripped DVD-RW write support out of the UJ-815 laptop drive for the 12" and 15" models of the PowerBook.

Similarly, they've firmware-crippled DVD-RAM out of the LG/Hitachi SuperDrives found in iMacs.

The strange part is that OS X already has full support for DVD-RAM. However, given that Apple uses a number of manufacturers for their SuperDrives they probably felt it was better to give nobody DVD-RAM support rather than have it available only in some iMacs and PowerBooks or whatever, and only for certain periods of time before they switched manufacturers. I'm guessing they removed 2X DVD-R write support from that laptop drive for the sake of reliability. OTOH, I have no explanation as to why they removed DVD-RW write support from the 12" and 15" PowerBooks however, except possibly because they wanted another reason for people to buy the 17".

I would not-at-all be surprised if Apple removed +R and +RW support from the Power Mac SuperDrives, esp. given Jobs' seeming aversion to the format. (He indirectly dissed it at the Dell/G5 WWDC bakeoff.) Also, the format simply duplicates -R/-RW so for most n00b users it would just cause confusion. In fact, I predict that the G5, if it does indeed include the Pioneer A06, will NOT have +R/+RW write capability.

kkant · Jul 10, 2003, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
I would not-at-all be surprised if Apple removed +R and +RW support from the Power Mac SuperDrives, esp. given Jobs' seeming aversion to the format. (He indirectly dissed it at the Dell/G5 WWDC bakeoff.) Also, the format simply duplicates -R/-RW so for most n00b users it would just cause confusion. In fact, I predict that the G5, if it does indeed include the Pioneer A06, will NOT have +R/+RW write capability.

Yeah. Which sucks for me and others who might need to write +R. If this is the case, I'll be saving $200 by removing the superdrive in the BTO, and buying myself a Pioneer or Sony +/- capable drive. Then presumably I'll have to go through the trouble of editing the "id" file as they've described in the xlr8yourmac.com report on this subject. Bother.

Eug Wanker · Jul 10, 2003, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by kkant:
Yeah. Which sucks for me and others who might need to write +R. If this is the case, I'll be saving $200 by removing the superdrive in the BTO, and buying myself a Pioneer or Sony +/- capable drive. Then presumably I'll have to go through the trouble of editing the "id" file as they've described in the xlr8yourmac.com report on this subject. Bother.

What machine of yours can read +R but not -R? I'm just wondering. Sometimes it's just easier to buy a new reader, or maybe you can get a firmware update or something.

kkant · Jul 10, 2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
What machine of yours can read +R but not -R? I'm just wondering. Sometimes it's just easier to buy a new reader, or maybe you can get a firmware update or something.

I have a Dell C600 laptop that can only read +R. Yeah yeah, I know.

This is the machine they gave me at work. I've tried -R, but it just chokes miserably. But I would consider getting a -R capable drive for it. Do you have any pointers?

Eug Wanker · Jul 10, 2003, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by kkant:
I have a Dell C600 laptop that can only read +R. Yeah yeah, I know. This is the machine they gave me at work. I've tried -R, but it just chokes miserably. But I would consider getting a -R capable drive for it. Do you have any pointers?

You can check the Dell support info to see if they have an updated firmware for the drive. Dell prefers the +R/+RW format though.

Failing that I'm not sure I'd invest in a new laptop drive. They're $$$$. Does it have Firewire or USB 2.0? I suppose you could always just buy a cheap DVD-ROM drive with a cheap Firewire or USB 2 enclosure and read the discs that way. Definitely not portable but cheap and it would work in a pinch. It would probably set you back only about US$100-125.

kkant · Jul 10, 2003, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
You can check the Dell support info to see if they have an updated firmware for the drive. Dell prefers the +R/+RW format though.

Believe me, I've tried everything. I've even tried hacked drivers that were specifically described as allowing -R support. No dice.

It does indeed appear that Dell prefers +R, as the Dell firmware updates mention it explicitly. I wish these manufacturers would just make things work rather than trying to enforce "policies".

And also unfortunately, this machine is too old for FW or USB2. It's about 3 years old now I think, a P3/800.

Oh well...