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Starry Night · Jul 5, 2003, 04:02 AM

G'day,

Our new 1.25ghz G4 (Single Processor, mirrored door) PowerMac arrived a couple of days ago. My first Mac, and so far I absolutely love it.

However, I've had some problems with sleep mode and would love some mac-savvy advice. Here's what's going on:

1) Have energy saver set for display to go to sleep after 15 mins, cpu to sleep after one hour. The display goes to sleep on time, but about 20 minutes later, suddenly re-awakes.

2) Sometimes neither the cpu or display will go to sleep, either via energy saver settings or by manually putting the computer to sleep via the Apple menu. When I try to do it manually, the display will sleep, the cpu will start to enter sleep mode, but quickly re-awake which wakes the display.

3) It seems if the computer has been started up from scratch, the sleep function will behave properly for the first sleep attempt. It's for subsequent sleep attempts that the problems arise.

Following directions in Pogues OSX Missing Manual, I repaired permissions and restarted computer. But the same thing happened as noted above.

What should I do? Should I do a re-install or clean install of OSX?

If so, this will be my first time to try such a thing, and like I said, I'm quite new to Macs. Does the re-install wipe out all of the Applications (iLife etc), or will it automaticly re-install all of them?

Any other ideas of what to do?

I've searched Apple's KB documents, but nothing seems relevant.

Thanks!

Starry Night · Jul 7, 2003, 03:19 PM

After much foolin' about, I think I've isolated the problem. My wireless Kensington mouse appears to be the culprit. When I unplugged it and plugged in the Apple mouse, the sleep issues went away, at least so far. I guess the wireless-ness of the Kensington was causing the PM to think activity was going on, thus the refusal to sleep.

We'll see how it goes.......

The Placid Casual · Jul 7, 2003, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Starry Night:
After much foolin' about, I think I've isolated the problem. My wireless Kensington mouse appears to be the culprit. When I unplugged it and plugged in the Apple mouse, the sleep issues went away, at least so far. I guess the wireless-ness of the Kensington was causing the PM to think activity was going on, thus the refusal to sleep.

We'll see how it goes.......

Congrats on the Mac, hope you enjoy using it!

As for the mouse, it sound like it could indeed be the cause, although I have never heard of the exact issue before...

A few OS X point releases (10.2.3?) have caused USB problems, so when there is an issue, I always look to peripherals first, and I also don't install a release until I have heard at least a few days user reports on the boards! This has saved me a few times..

As for a reinstall (and your questions), you have options on how you do it...

First off, you can select to 'Archive and install', this should preserve your home directory and the applications. It will just install new copies of the core of OS X.

Next you can do a 'clean' install, which will wipe everything... Apps, Documents, everything.

You also have a choice to do a factory restore... This is selected through the 'utilities' folder. This will totally delete the drive, but install all the applications that came with the machine originally. It restores it to 'out of the box' specification.

Hope this helps,

Marc

G-mac · Jul 7, 2003, 06:28 PM

My new PM 1.25 SP MDD is also having the same issue! In my case, upon waking from sleep, the PM sleeps again, then awakens, then sleeps, etc. It does this at least 3-4 times before finlly staying awake. This can't be good for the PM. I've also tried the clean install and repairing of permissions to no avail. However, I will try changing mice - Im using a wireless Logitech which may be causing the same issue as your Kensington one.

Starry Night · Jul 8, 2003, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by G-mac:
My new PM 1.25 SP MDD is also having the same issue! In my case, upon waking from sleep, the PM sleeps again, then awakens, then sleeps, etc. It does this at least 3-4 times before finlly staying awake. This can't be good for the PM. I've also tried the clean install and repairing of permissions to no avail. However, I will try changing mice - Im using a wireless Logitech which may be causing the same issue as your Kensington one.

Thanks Marc and G-mac for the feedback.

G-Mac: My PM would do the same thing, would go to sleep and then wake on its own, or then refuse to go to sleep. Before diving into a clean install, I fooled around for awhile, trying different things. There was a KB Apple document that mentioned an issue from older PM in which USB devices interfered with the sleep mode.

Taking that idea, I unplugged the Kensington Wireless mouse, and plugged in the Apple Pro. The sleep mode has worked flawlessly since.

I still use the wireless mouse, just unplug it before allowing sleep mode.

I wonder if the USB ports on the Apple Keyboard are overly sensitive? I believe that for whatever reason, the wireless mouse is sending a signal to the CPU that activity is happening, even if nothing is going on. My next step is to buy a USB hub and see if plugging the wireless mouse into the hub instead of the keyboard makes a difference.

If not, then I'll just have to unplug the wireless mouse before entering sleep. Not the best solution, but one I can live with if necessary!

Good Luck.....

Starry Night · Jul 8, 2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by G-mac:
My new PM 1.25 SP MDD is also having the same issue! In my case, upon waking from sleep, the PM sleeps again, then awakens, then sleeps, etc. It does this at least 3-4 times before finlly staying awake. This can't be good for the PM. I've also tried the clean install and repairing of permissions to no avail. However, I will try changing mice - Im using a wireless Logitech which may be causing the same issue as your Kensington one.

I called Apple Support to see what their thoughts on the matter are. He said that there's something about the mouse's drivers that are causing it to tell the CPU that activity is going on all the time.

He offered a solution, though he couldn't promise it would work, but it's worth trying.

The solution is:

1) Goto screen effects and establish a "hot corner" in the lower left part of the display. Supposedly, if you put the cursor in that hot corner, the screen effects will be activated. Being in the hot corner tells the computer to ignore the mouse cursor as long as it's in that hot corner zone. Then, in theory, the energy saver timings will play out like normal, the computer will sleep, and as long as the cursor is in the hot corner, it will be ignored.

2) Also in screen effects, under the "activation" tab, check the option that says "use my user account password to wake from sleep".

He couldn't say if those ideas would work for sure.

I'm a bit busy and hope to get to trying those options tonight or tomorrow. Just putting them out there should someone else want to give them a go.

Be sure and post your results to the forum

Bon Voyage!

G-mac · Jul 8, 2003, 06:39 PM

Hey there,

Great info! I'll try that "hot corner" trick and let you know what happens. I've had my mouse connected to a USB hub, but it didn't help or hurt the situation.

Here's an interesting KB article I found on Apple's site:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61697

I think we have the MDD PMs with Pro 9000 cards. My PM is hooked up to a Samsung 172T DVI monitor - perhaps it is the DVI connection and Radeon Pro 9000 that's causing the problem?

Taipan · Jul 8, 2003, 07:01 PM

Hi!

Sorry for the off-topic posting, but you're the first one with a single-cpu 1,25GHz machine I became aware of, so I would like to ask you if you could make some statements about performance (probably difficult, since it's your first Mac) and noise. I intend to get one of these, too, and I wonder if the single cpu machines are as loud as the dual ones are supposed to be. Thanks!

G-mac · Jul 8, 2003, 09:55 PM

The SP 1.25 MDD works great! The speed is really impressive, considering I've switched from a PB 550 to the new PowerMac. I have no problems speedwise scrolling through PDF files in Acrobat, playing the UT 2003 Demo with settings on high, and working with Photoshop. I couldn't even play the UT 2003 demo at the lowest settings on my PB. Unfortunately, I don't have any values to post regarding speed (frame rates, etc), but for the price I paid, the speed is more than adequate.

I haven't had any real working experience with a PowerMac in a few years, but I can tell you that it's rather quiet. In fact, it is a lot quieter than my PB 550 when its fan was on. The PB 550 has a more high pitched, vacuum-like noise that comes on frequently, whereas the PM SP 1.25 has a lower pitched hum. I've heard the MDD Dual Processor models are really noisy, but I don't find the SP to be that bad. I also need to mention that it's sitting right here on my desk next to the monitor - not underneath the table. Therefore, it should sound even quieter once it is tucked away from my ears.

Hope this helps! Let me know if you're looking for specific info regarding speed, etc. Oh, and if anyone has more info on the sleep problems, that would be great!

G-mac · Jul 8, 2003, 09:57 PM

Oh, I forgot to add that when the air conditioning is on, the PM is virtually silent. Also, restarting the computer is really fast - it used to take forever on my PB. I'll try and post some stats when I find time.

Starry Night · Jul 9, 2003, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by G-mac:
Hey there,

Great info! I'll try that "hot corner" trick and let you know what happens. I've had my mouse connected to a USB hub, but it didn't help or hurt the situation.

Here's an interesting KB article I found on Apple's site:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61697

I think we have the MDD PMs with Pro 9000 cards. My PM is hooked up to a Samsung 172T DVI monitor - perhaps it is the DVI connection and Radeon Pro 9000 that's causing the problem?

G-Mac:

We'll figure it out one way or the other!

It might have more to do with the 10.2.5 USB problems. I don't know, just a guess. I've used the same Kensington mouse on an ibook running 10.2.4 and there were no issues. Our PM's have 10.2.6 which supposedly fixed the USB issues. Either that or some funky driver issue.

Have it hooked up to a NEC LCD 1760V via VGA to DVI (w/adapter). A Samsung 172T is going to arrive tomorrow or the next day. I'll compare which one I like best and send the other back. Btw, the NEC is fantastic (no dead pixels, yeah), and much better than the 17" imac display.

But I think it has nothing to do with the display because mine sleeps just fine with the Apple mouse. That appears to make it mouse/drive related rather than a broader USB issue. But what do I know ?!

Tried the "hot corner" trick. So far, it has fixed the problem. With the Kensington mouse, everything went to sleep without a hitch and has remained asleep. I'll keep trying it to see if the performance remains consistent....

To the other poster:

I'm very pleased with the SP 1.25ghz PM. For the money, I don't think it can be beat. There is a fan noise, it's not a silent machine, but nothing major. I would by no means term is a Powervac Mac.

As for speed, I don't have the knowledge to make an accurate comparison, yet it seems very snappy, even with the stock 256. I've been playing Tropico Mucho Macho with no problems. It's not a real graphicly taxing game though.

Starry Night · Jul 9, 2003, 02:01 AM

Unfortunately, the hot corner trick doesn't appear to have totally fixed things. Sleep worked better, yet after a few tries it once again behaved in the same irritating way.

Oh well. Tomorrow I'll contact Kensington and see what they have to say......

Starry Night · Jul 10, 2003, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by Taipan:
Hi!

Sorry for the off-topic posting, but you're the first one with a single-cpu 1,25GHz machine I became aware of, so I would like to ask you if you could make some statements about performance (probably difficult, since it's your first Mac) and noise. I intend to get one of these, too, and I wonder if the single cpu machines are as loud as the dual ones are supposed to be. Thanks!

Taipan,

My PM is in a very quiet house where there's usually absolutely no background noise, ie air conditioning etc. The PM's noise level is very similiar to a small college dorm refridgerator..... you can hear it for sure, but nothing major......

G-mac · Jul 10, 2003, 09:58 AM

Another update,

Last night, I put my PM to sleep using the power button. When I used the power button again to wake the PM, there was no problem! The PM came back to life without the alternating sleep/wake bug. I'll have to test this a lot more, but it's interesting that it worked.

Hope Apple updates the system or puts out some fix to solve this issue for us!

Taipan · 07:25 PM

Originally posted by G-mac:
I have no problems speedwise scrolling through PDF files in Acrobat, playing the UT 2003 Demo with settings on high, and working with Photoshop.

Simultaneously?

Thanks for the info, I think I'll get one now.

Starry Night · Jul 11, 2003, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by G-mac:
Another update,

Last night, I put my PM to sleep using the power button. When I used the power button again to wake the PM, there was no problem! The PM came back to life without the alternating sleep/wake bug. I'll have to test this a lot more, but it's interesting that it worked.

Hope Apple updates the system or puts out some fix to solve this issue for us!

G-mac,

I heard back from Kensington. They said that they've heard of this issue with various systems, not just macs. They find the best solution is to replace the mouse and have offered to send me a new one free of charge.

I'm very impressed with Kensington customer service!

We'll see how it goes.....

losgatos · Jul 13, 2003, 05:20 AM

Let me complicate this thread some more ...

I have a Quicksilver that will not sleep. No matter how I try to send it into the dream state, it springs right back. I use a wired mouse and have removed all USB peripherals!

About a year ago, the USB ports on my Studio Display stopped working. I wonder if there's a short somewhere in the display that's keeping my Quicksilver awake.

Weird.

Starry Night · Jul 13, 2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by losgatos:
Let me complicate this thread some more ...

I have a Quicksilver that will not sleep. No matter how I try to send it into the dream state, it springs right back. I use a wired mouse and have removed all USB peripherals!

About a year ago, the USB ports on my Studio Display stopped working. I wonder if there's a short somewhere in the display that's keeping my Quicksilver awake.

Weird.

Are you using the Apple Pro wired Mouse? It would be interesting to see if using an Apple product made a difference. On my end, the Apple mouse & sleep works perfectly every time.

Perhaps just try a different mouse, even if it's not Apple.

I've also found that even with the funky Kensington wireless mouse, if I put it to sleep manually via the apple menu the computer will sleep just fine. The issue seems to rest with comunication between energy saver and the Kensington.

Once the energy saver has acted, then it's hit and miss, even when putting it to sleep manually.

G-mac · Jul 15, 2003, 01:45 AM

Hey Starry,

So far, the problem still exists, but it's become less frequent. Strange, but true. So far at least. Now, when I wake the G4 the screen turns black once, then comes on again. No more rapid sleep-wake cycles. Still annoying with the single flash, but better nonetheless.

Please, Apple or ATI - explain this to us!

How's your G4 doin?

Starry Night · Jul 15, 2003, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by G-mac:
Hey Starry,

So far, the problem still exists, but it's become less frequent. Strange, but true. So far at least. Now, when I wake the G4 the screen turns black once, then comes on again. No more rapid sleep-wake cycles. Still annoying with the single flash, but better nonetheless.

Please, Apple or ATI - explain this to us!

How's your G4 doin?

Hi G-Mac,

G4 is doing wonderful! Paired with the 17" NEC 1760V LCD I'm happy as a lark.

Btw, I spoke with Kensington yesterday by phone, though this time I got a different agent. He said that, at least with a Kensington Mouse involved, that the problem lies with the mouse and not with Apple or the graphics card. He confirmed that they are sending me a new mouse though commented that as far as he knows, the official Kensington firmware fix won't be coming until December, but that a new mouse was worth a try.

He also suggested to try "hiding the mouse" when in sleep mode. That means once the computer goes to sleep to simply move the mouse out of range from the antena by setting it on a table across the room or something. The theory being that if the mouse is out of range no signal will be sent, and hence, no issue with sleep.

It's worth a try!

The other alternative was simply to unplug the antena.....