[dli537]

Just check my G5 order at Apple online store.
The part number for the keyboard and mouse that come with G5 is 065-4611. However, the Powermac G4, iMac, eMac still have keyboards with a different part number 065-4388. I am not sure if this is the evidence for new Apple keyboard and mouse. Can someone check their G5 order and verify this?

[chrisutley]

Compare the "new" part number to the new keyboard that recently came out. I'm guessing you'll find that it's the same.

No way Apple ships wireless equipment with PowerMacs. They will make a buttload of money selling them by themselves.

Originally posted by dli537:
Just check my G5 order at Apple online store.
The part number for the keyboard and mouse that come with G5 is 065-4611. However, the Powermac G4, iMac, eMac still have keyboards with a different part number 065-4388. I am not sure if this is the evidence for new Apple keyboard and mouse. Can someone check their G5 order and verify this?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Mouses?

[Gul Banana]

Mice.

[The Placid Casual]

Another thread on this?

I thought it was sorted out that the machine will ship with the 'Apple Mouse and Keyboard', while the old G4s and things shipped with the 'Pro' versions. Hence the change in part number...

Oh well.

[icruise]

I saw the "Apple Mouse and Keyboard" for the first time the other day. I really hope these $3,000 machines aren't coming with cheap keyboards like that...

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by Icruise:
I saw the "Apple Mouse and Keyboard" for the first time the other day. I really hope these $3,000 machines aren't coming with cheap keyboards like that...

All the G5 video and press shots show the cheap ass mouse and KB

I really think that Apple won't change anything now, and to make it worse, they are white!

I went to a busy local Apple seller last week in the morning and saw a brand new white keyboard being put on display with an iMac. I went back later in the afternoon and the thing was just so grubby... One days use! I give it a morning only in my house!

I'm just glad I have my Logitech MX700...

[slider]

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
Mice.

Yeah, is that really correct? I know that is how we all do it when referring to more than one mouse, but I don't know if it is actually correct beyond it just being accepted as such. I wonder b/c I have been told that Canadian Goose is the correct species and more than one is Canadian Gooses, not Canadian Geese. This, however, was word of mouth so I am not referenciing a source for this, but it has continued to keep me guessing about our usage of mice. Yes, the rodent pural is mice, but a computer mouse is not a rodent (well unless you're talking about the Apple one button mouse ). Although I suppose that if the name of the mouse came from the idea that it looked like a mouse I suppose it goes to follow that the pural is mice. Does anyone actually know w/o quoting me their vast intelligence and therefore it is crap, at least not w/o referencing how they know this? A source? Can I waste anymore time. Lets see, this looks interestng........

[Gul Banana]

According to Dictionary.com, either "mice" or "mouses" is correct when talking about computer mice. I personally think "mouses" sounds stupid, though.

[colpolyp]

Let's all say "pointing thing" then.

Considering the items in the press recently I would say the G5 comes with the white Apple Pro keyboard and pointing thing.

[JustinD]

pointy dealy.

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by colpolyp:
Let's all say "pointing thing" then.

Considering the items in the press recently I would say the G5 comes with the white Apple Pro keyboard and pointing thing.

Unfortunately it doesn't come with the
'Pro' kit, as they have definitely been discontinued... I even tried to order them individually from the Applestore, who told me they were discontinued and not coming back.

The new keyboard as the USB ports on the back, and is non adjustable for height. You can now not adjust the 'click' resistance on the mouse.

I really think Apple are going to shaft us on this.

[Wiskedjak]

Perhaps Apple is selling the cheap stuff in anticipation of people getting third party mice and keyboards? Apple's mice and keyboards have never really been that great, though nice looking and over-priced relative to the competition.

[DBvader]

if you look at that PDF thing with the in depth G5 specs, it says that it will use the standard apple keyboard and mouse...the link is on the MacNN main site somewhere

[kkant]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Perhaps Apple is selling the cheap stuff in anticipation of people getting third party mice and keyboards? Apple's mice and keyboards have never really been that great, though nice looking and over-priced relative to the competition.

I would agree with that statement if it was qualified by "since the iMac for the mouse", and "since the Apple Design ADB Keyboard". The ADB mice (especially the last generation) and the older ADB keyboards were extremely well designed from a tactile and usability perspective.

What a downfall since those days. The worst transgression IMO was the hockey puck mouse. Absolutely awful.

[DBvader]

well, all apple mice are inherently pointless, imo.

the one button thing kills it. i havent used my apple mouse once on my powermac. i dont see the point, especially when the OS makes such good ue of contextual menus.

[kkant]

Originally posted by DBvader:
well, all apple mice are inherently pointless, imo.

the one button thing kills it. i havent used my apple mouse once on my powermac. i dont see the point, especially when the OS makes such good ue of contextual menus.

Yes, I agree. That's why I use my MacAlly. The same good design as the Apple ADB mice, except with a second button + scroll wheel.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by DBvader:
the one button thing kills it. i havent used my apple mouse once on my powermac. i dont see the point, especially when the OS makes such good ue of contextual menus.

I think it goes back to Jobs' philosophy (obsession?) with one-button mice and his belief that they're easier for a new computer user to pick up and use. I'm no interface designer so I have no idea if that's true or not.

However, the inclusion of the new action menus in Panther make me think that Jobs still believes a one-button mouse is the way to go and that if there is any new mouse introduced with the G5, it won't be a two-button model. Oh well. My logitech will do me fine.

[silverlode]

Look at the history of Apple's product designs and attention to detail, from the enclosure to the keyboard to the power supply. I mean, they make an awesome looking power cord, for Pete's sake!

I would be surprised if the G5 didn't ship with a matching keyboard/mouse.

[kkant]

Originally posted by -Q-:
I think it goes back to Jobs' philosophy (obsession?) with one-button mice and his belief that they're easier for a new computer user to pick up and use. I'm no interface designer so I have no idea if that's true or not.

If Jobs still believes that, then I think his belief has transcended scientific thought and moved on to the realm of mystical faith. Or perhaps vain obstinacy.

The day they decided to include contextual menus in Classic MacOS is the day they conceded that multi-button mice were better, whether they care to admit it or not.

[terrancew_hod]

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
Mice.

Mices

(couldn't resist)

Terrance

[-Q-]

Originally posted by kkant:
The day they decided to include contextual menus in Classic MacOS is the day they conceded that multi-button mice were better, whether they care to admit it or not.

I think we can only come to that conclusion when a two-button mouse ships with the product lines. Until then, I think we can only conclude from the above that Steve thinks contextual menus have purpose, but felt the better way to access them was with the mouse and a key modifier than a two-button mouse.

Although, I guess the question is, when they introduced contextual menus in OS 8.x, how much influence did Steve have in their implementation? Did he fight their introduction? But I digress.

Back on topic, I still hope there are new keyboards and mice with the G5s, but I doubt they'll have two buttons on the mice.

[GORDYmac]

If Apple makes a sweet Keyboard and Mouse combo, that will be just another group of 3rd party vendors they piss off. Do they want that? Do they care?


They should.

[DBvader]

again, if you look at the PDF apple released with the in depth G5 specs, it says that the standard apple keyboard and mouse will be used....

[kkant]

Originally posted by -Q-:
I think we can only come to that conclusion when a two-button mouse ships with the product lines. Until then, I think we can only conclude from the above that Steve thinks contextual menus have purpose, but felt the better way to access them was with the mouse and a key modifier than a two-button mouse.

Hmm, OK. In that case, I guess I have not come across anyone other than Steve who thinks that control-click is as easy or intuitive or convenient as right-click.

[Papa Jupe]

I have not come across anyone other than Steve who thinks that control-click is as easy or intuitive or convenient as right-click.

Jesus does.

[JustinD]

Meese.



'Nuff said.

[kkant]

Originally posted by Papa Jupe:
Jesus does.

LOL.

[Dr. Wahnsinn]

Originally posted by -Q-;
Although, I guess the question is, when they introduced contextual menus in OS 8.x, how much influence did Steve have in their implementation? Did he fight their introduction?

OS 8 began development under Gil Amelio's tenure at Apple. Jobs had no say in it. Let's just be glad that he didn't have it removed because it wasn't his idea.

As for the keyboard/mouse issue, perhaps it would be better to go back to an idea similar to the old days when Power Macs didn't come with a keyboard. That's right, you can just go out and buy what you want. Just don't expect Apple to remove these items and lower the price.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by Dr. Wahnsinn:
OS 8 began development under Gil Amelio's tenure at Apple. Jobs had no say in it. Let's just be glad that he didn't have it removed because it wasn't his idea.

That's what I was wondering. Would we even have contextual menus if Jobs had been around. Probably not. I'm surprised he kept them for X but I'm sure the ridicule from the press would have been horrendous.

As for the keyboard/mouse issue, perhaps it would be better to go back to an idea similar to the old days when Power Macs didn't come with a keyboard. That's right, you can just go out and buy what you want. Just don't expect Apple to remove these items and lower the price.

Interesting idea, but I just can't fathom people accepting that idea now, when they've gotten so used to getting a keyboard and a mouse with the computer purchase. Besides, I'd be a little miffed after paying $3k for a computer and having to spend another $100 for a keyboard and mouse so I could use my $3K paperweight. Consumer good will would most certainly be damaged.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally posted by kkant:
The day they decided to include contextual menus in Classic MacOS is the day they conceded that multi-button mice were better, whether they care to admit it or not.

Multi-button mice are better, but most people still don't know how to use them. I did tech support at an ISP for thousands of users for 6 years, and now I'm the IT admin at a company of over 1000 employees (no macs anywhere) and I'd have to say less than 2% have any idea what the 2nd mouse button is for.

They've never used it to email a file to someone, check properties on a file, change the desktop settings, copy and paste, move/copy/create shortcut drag and drop, or any of the other wonderful things you can do with a right click in Windows. I don't even tell people to right click anymore when I'm talking them thru a problem, it just confuses them and makes things more difficult.

So yeah, everone who knows how to use a right click should immediately install a 2 button mouse, and those that don't will never know what they're missing. Giving them a 2 button mouse won't benefit them one bit.

[kkant]

Originally posted by jasonsRX7:
Multi-button mice are better, but most people still don't know how to use them. I did tech support at an ISP for thousands of users for 6 years, and now I'm the IT admin at a company of over 1000 employees (no macs anywhere) and I'd have to say less than 2% have any idea what the 2nd mouse button is for.

Good God. That's incredible. Maybe multi-button is not such a good idea after all.

But I really have to wonder. How much does it take to notice (1) that the mouse has another button, and (2) that the other button does something different? If you can cross those thresholds, then the rest you can figure out, right? Right???

[jasonsRX7]

Originally posted by kkant:
Good God. That's incredible. Maybe multi-button is not such a good idea after all.

But I really have to wonder. How much does it take to notice (1) that the mouse has another button, and (2) that the other button does something different? If you can cross those thresholds, then the rest you can figure out, right? Right???

They notice the other button, they just don't experiment with it. Just like they notice the Scroll Lock key. They don't have any use for it so they just leave it alone. Sometimes they click it by accident and get scared they've messed something up when that strange menu pops up in the middle of their screen, and they call support.

It's amazing all the useful tools we take for granted that so many people just don't know about, like the Select All, Shift Select, and Copy/Paste key combinations. I've seen one lady deleting hundreds of junk emails one at a time because she had no idea you could select more than one. Even after I showed her how to select multiple messages, she went right back to doing it the old way. Don't even get me started on Drag and Drop. So many of them just don't care enough to learn anything new.

I think Apple knows what they're doing by sticking with the one mouse button. Although a scroll wheel would be nice. Most users do understand that concept and use it quite well.

[PreciousBbird]

Originally posted by slider:
I wonder b/c I have been told that Canadian Goose is the correct species and more than one is Canadian Gooses, not Canadian Geese.

Sorry for the OT - Actually, one is "Canada Goose" and >1 is "Canada Geese". "Canadian" does not appear in the name of the species. And there are apparently 11 different races of Canada Goose!

[Eriamjh]

It took Apple like a year to update the G4 keyboards to the current design when the first G4s came out. Remember? They used the puck mouse and the iMac keyboard.

Perhaps in 6-12 months, a new keybaord that matches the machine will debut.

[slider]

Honestly though, wasn't the ProKeyboard great the way it was? The only thing I see this other KeyBoard as is a POS. Why, I just don't understand it. Can it really be costing Apple so much, how difficult is it to design a keyboard. Anyways I'll be keeping my Pro for awhile then.

[:XI:]

Apple Pro Keyboard & Mouse vs. Apple Keyboard & Mouse.

How often to you adjust your keyboard for height?

How often do you adjust the mouse tension? (I never noticed a difference between + 0 - myself...)

Does anyone even use their keyboards with the stand folded?

I like the USB ports on the side, but I still have to move the keyboard to plug things in, so I can't see the new location being a problem.

Besides, I've already got a Pro Keyboard and I don't use the mouse anymore.