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pinkoos · Jul 13, 2003, 06:19 PM

I posted this over in the Powermac Forum, but had no luck in replies, so I thought I'd see if any of you guys would be able to give me some useful information:

Hi,

I currently have a FP iMac 700, 640 MB RAM, 40 GB HDD, CDRW, running 10.2.6.

I have the opportunity to purchase a Powermac Dual 500, 384 MB RAM, 40 GB HDD, DVD for a reasonable price locally.

I'm just wondering if the dual processors will increase the speed even though the actual clock speed is less than my iMac's? I, of course, would bump up the RAM in the Powemac to as much as possible (read, affordable). Also, I believe the dual 500 only has 16 MB of VRAM, so it would not be optimized for Quartz Extreme. I would consider upgrading the video card to one with 32 MB.

I've gotten dual fever and would like to move to a dual processor machine to take advantage of OS X's SMP. However, I'm not sure I want to shell out the big bucks for a new dual 1.25 or refurb/used duals ranging in the 800 to 867 speed, as these machines seem to be priced very close to new dual 1.25s.

I don't do anything hardcore on my computer. Basically, email, web, iPhoto, iTunes, word processing, spreadsheet, etc.

I know the iMac would probably continue to suit my needs, but I'd like to have the experience of a "dualie."

Thanks in advance.

Frumpy · Jul 13, 2003, 06:31 PM

Well, i wouldn't do it. Dual 500's mean that most things are going to run at 500. Only things written and meant for a dual processor mac are going to take advantage of any extra speed you would have gotten over your 700 G4. Annnnd, other than a handful of Apple apps that are so pro (and above $1000 in price) that you won't need it. Plus, any games..........free or purchased would have to be written for dual processors too. Save the cash for the 1.25. Believe me, you'll enjoy it much more, and you won't have to shell out extra money for another graphics card, or Panther when it's released.

Big Mac · Jul 18, 2003, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by Frumpy:
Well, i wouldn't do it. Dual 500's mean that most things are going to run at 500. Only things written and meant for a dual processor mac are going to take advantage of any extra speed you would have gotten over your 700 G4. Annnnd, other than a handful of Apple apps that are so pro (and above $1000 in price) that you won't need it. Plus, any games..........free or purchased would have to be written for dual processors too. Save the cash for the 1.25. Believe me, you'll enjoy it much more, and you won't have to shell out extra money for another graphics card, or Panther when it's released.

That's not entirely true. With its true SMP implementation and preemptive multitasking, OS X controls the task distribution among processors. Applications that aren't SMP optimized (because their code isn't divided into threads properly) still benefit from dual processors because the OS executes them on whichever processor is free. Duals are definitely worth the money if one needs speed; they aren't a marketing gimic. With that said, Frumpy's right -- a single 700MHz will be faster than a dual 500MHz for most things. How much of a difference that makes I can't really say. Unfortunately, xbench.com's results database is still down. . .

Eriamjh · 10:16 AM

Hmm... I'd pass. But benchmark comparisons are worth looking into.

The DP500s were sold from July 2000 to Jan 2001 and are getting old. Wait until the G5 performance comparisons come out. You may want to pick up a single 1GHz PM instead or something even faster. or possibly an even faster DP machine.

Is that DVD or DVD-RAM? DVD-RAM is essentially dead so you'd have to plunk down more for a CDRW or a combo drive. You would also need to pick up a GeForce or Radion AGP card to maximize OSX QE. Add that to the conversion cost.

You'd want to buy more RAM (PC100 is going up in price) and possibly a 7200 RPM HD which is probably what's in the iMac. Oops, nope. Just checked. 5400 in the iMac & 7200 in the DP500..

Don't forget that the FW chips on those were a little squirrelly and may not be as compatible or as fast as your iMac (if you use an iPod or external HD).

Does it come with a monitor? Add that too if not.

Think of the space too, desk space, that is.

And the fact that will either come with a puck mouse and crappy old iMac keyboard.. Unless the owner upgraded them.

Sounds like a lot to go through just for DPs. You probably don't have any need for PCI slots so thta's not a factor. Slower buss speed, slower video, older machine...

What do you think now?

Frumpy · Jul 19, 2003, 09:33 AM

Well, i have to say that if i were the one making the decision that last post would have discouraged me a WHOLE LOT. But nice job, it's better that he knows before he buys it rather than realizing it months from now.

pinkoos · Jul 19, 2003, 09:45 AM

Thanks. Looks like the majority vote is to pass on this. That's what I'm going to do.

I think I'll either stay with my current iMac, get one of J and R's closeout Superdrive 15" iMacs for $1300 (and sell this one) or try to get a dual Quicksilver, either the 800 or 1 GHz.

Another question or two:

1. Is there a dual 867 Quicksilver? I know there's a dual 867 MDD, but I think I want to avoid the MDD models because of the noise issue.

2. The reason I may go for the Superdrive iMac is because I want a DVD burner, but apparently external burners are not supported by Apple's iDVD or DVD player. iDVD is less of a concern for me (I won't be making any movies, etc.), but I'm guessing that I won't even be able to play any DVDs through an external burner if DVD player won't support it. Is that right? If so, is there some other OS X compatible DVD software player that woud work? Do these DVD burners come with their own players?

Eriamjh · Jul 19, 2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by pinkoos:

1. Is there a dual 867 Quicksilver? I know there's a dual 867 MDD, but I think I want to avoid the MDD models because of the noise issue.

2. The reason I may go for the Superdrive iMac is because I want a DVD burner, but apparently external burners are not supported by Apple's iDVD or DVD player. iDVD is less of a concern for me (I won't be making any movies, etc.), but I'm guessing that I won't even be able to play any DVDs through an external burner if DVD player won't support it. Is that right? If so, is there some other OS X compatible DVD software player that woud work? Do these DVD burners come with their own players?

No DP867 other than the MDD version.

Check on external DVD burners, bu I think MOST come with DVD Video burning software and probably toast. I am not aware of any other DVD movie players outside of Apple's. Maybe VLC van play them?

Check around to see if Apple's DVD player supports external players. I'm 80% sure it does.

pinkoos · Jul 19, 2003, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Eriamjh:
Check around to see if Apple's DVD player supports external players. I'm 80% sure it does.

Some nice person sent me this link:

DVD Player doesn't support external drives.

I don't know what to do. It seems as if one is almost forced to buy a Superdrive-equipped Mac as opposed to using an external drive.

Eriamjh · Jul 19, 2003, 03:08 PM

Well, now I'm 100% sure it doesn't. Any workarounds? Patches?

You could always pop in a retail Pioneer DVR-105/106, but even that may be blocked by Apple eventually.

mark9939 · Jul 19, 2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by pinkoos:
Some nice person sent me this link:

DVD Player doesn't support external drives.

I don't know what to do. It seems as if one is almost forced to buy a Superdrive-equipped Mac as opposed to using an external drive.

You don't have to use Apple DVD Player. I personally use VLC, it can encode any region DVD, the window is movable between monitors (I don't know if this is an issue for you), etc. So Apple DVD Player is nice, but not your only choice. I wouldn't let that discourage you.