[Hydra]

Here is a link I cam across to a video showing a German Apple salesperson? sliding a a SATA HD in the G5. I think that if it's as easy as it looks people's fear of only 2 drive bays may be unfounded. It looks like you may be able to pop in a drive in all of about 10 seconds. I don't speak german but if anyone out there does I wouldn't mind a translation

The video is on the lower right of the page which has a bunch of other pix including a screenshot of a Quake 3 time demo. Enjoy.

http://www.infinite-void.org/linuxtag/linuxtag.html

-Jerry C

PS I think i found it on the xlr8 boards this afternoon.

[Eug Wanker]

Ease of drive installation doesn't negate the limitations of having only 1 extra hard drive bay.

I really wish there was room for an extra optical drive bay and at least one extra HD bay.

Thanks for the link tho'.

[Torquemada.m@c]

edit: nevermind

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Ease of drive installation doesn't negate the limitations of having only 1 extra hard drive bay.

I really wish there was room for an extra optical drive bay and at least one extra HD bay.

Thanks for the link tho'.

Oh boo hoo. I gotta know what percentage of people actually had 2 drives installed in a tower. Personally, i have NEVER seen anyone do that.

If they had the option to make the tower another 3 inches taller to make that 1% happy or trim some fat of the thing and make me get a firewire drive then you know which one I would choose.

[Busemann]

The Q3 performance were slightly lower than those presented by apple. Could anyone on MW care to do some benchmarks?

[mamamia]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Oh boo hoo. I gotta know what percentage of people actually had 2 drives installed in a tower. Personally, i have NEVER seen anyone do that.

If they had the option to make the tower another 3 inches taller to make that 1% happy or trim some fat of the thing and make me get a firewire drive then you know which one I would choose.

what the hell are you blathering about? this thing isn't an imac. this thing was designed from the ground up to be a workstation. apple is marketing as such. if it is going to do workstation duty, or become the primary video editing suite that apple is tyring to position it as, it needs a third drive bay. prosummers don't spend $3000 on a computer. professionals do. if they have a problem with it, perhaps apple should listen.

[macnnhelpme]

Oh boo hoo. I gotta know what percentage of people actually had 2 drives installed in a tower. Personally, i have NEVER seen anyone do that.

Then I guess it never happens?

Seriously, one of the Macs strong suits is video editing, and most serious editors need tons of storage. And I for one like having the ability to install a faster CDRW to compliment the slow superdrive.

[nayr x]

Not that I am taking either side, but it seems to me that with a plethora of firewire/USB2 drives and storage solutions available, the decision to not include multiple drivebays in a highly stylized design is self explanitory. (?)

[Torquemada.m@c]

Originally posted by Busemann:
The Q3 performance were slightly lower than those presented by apple. Could anyone on MW care to do some benchmarks?

As I (yes, I took the pics and did the benches) wrote on the page: I couldn't do any s_chunksize adjustments or play around with the s_mixahead/prestep settings. You can get significant fps improvements without losing sound quality. I would have loved to do further tweaks but it just wasn't possible since others there wanted to test things.

[xMetal]

the 2 drive bays are enough for most everyone, especially when you can cram 500GB into the thing. That, combined with a nice big stack of Firewire 800 drives would fulfill all but the most insane of storage fiends.

I do video editing for multimedia all the time on a AlBook. Just plug in the firewires and off you go.

I don't see this "lack of internal storage" as an issue. The G5 is a desktop machine, after all, and is going to sit in your office all the time. Does it really matter if there's a couple other little boxes sitting next to it?

[Busemann]

Originally posted by Torquemada.m@c:
As I (yes, I took the pics and did the benches) wrote on the page: I couldn't do any s_chunksize adjustments or play around with the s_mixahead/prestep settings. You can get significant fps improvements without losing sound quality. I would have loved to do further tweaks but it just wasn't possible since others there wanted to test things.

Yes but Apple's benches are on a "default" install (no tweaks), but with everything set at max I believe. Still they get almost 340fps.

Do you know if Panther or 10.2.7 was used on the demo machine and if it was a production unit?

EDIT: Judging by the picture of the quicktime windows open at the same time it seems 10.2.7 was installed. Panther will indeed give better results.

[DBvader]

i think that having one optical drive is a big mistake. CD to CD copying is a great feature that the cheapest of PCs do well. at school, i had to use my roomates PC all the time, becuase my Dual G4 only had a combo drive (not to mention it reacd CDs/record MP3s poorly...skips all the time) and i couldnt copy CDs. i think its especially lame, considering that the MDDs DID have two expansion bays...why go backwards?

also, i think its moronic to think that apple is right in all that they do. this is a workstation, and therefore all the space for additional HDs should be there. it angers me that apple does so many hard things right and innovates beyond any competitor, but then messes up on many of the small details. with a case that large, i think we should have expansion posibilities from here to china...but apparently we dont

[Busemann]

The G4 maxed out at 720GB - only 220GB more than the G5. Those who need more than half a terabyte of storage should invest in a RAID setup if you ask me.

[Hydra]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Oh boo hoo. I gotta know what percentage of people actually had 2 drives installed in a tower. Personally, i have NEVER seen anyone do that.

If they had the option to make the tower another 3 inches taller to make that 1% happy or trim some fat of the thing and make me get a firewire drive then you know which one I would choose.

I've got 3 HD's in my Dual 800 and an external firewire drive to boot. But I have to agree that 99% people don't need more than 2. Heck I doubt more than 10% computer users install a second drive. More expansion like more power is always attractive but most people don't really need it.

I am pretty happy with the new G5 layout and the 2 drive bays should be fine esp. considering that by next year we may be seeing 500 GB SATA drives.

Hey Torquemada.m@c, nice pictures and thanks for the Q3 bench. I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes by posting that link but in my G5 induced mania I threw up this new thread. Bye the way did you push all the setting to the max like textures and whatnot or did you use the default max settings?


-Jerry C.

[real]

Originally posted by xMetal:
the 2 drive bays are enough for most everyone, especially when you can cram 500GB into the thing. That, combined with a nice big stack of Firewire 800 drives would fulfill all but the most insane of storage fiends.

I do video editing for multimedia all the time on a AlBook. Just plug in the firewires and off you go.

I don't see this "lack of internal storage" as an issue. The G5 is a desktop machine, after all, and is going to sit in your office all the time. Does it really matter if there's a couple other little boxes sitting next to it?

YES, YES IT DOES, It's Called Speed!

[Torquemada.m@c]

Originally posted by Hydra:
Hey Torquemada.m@c, nice pictures and thanks for the Q3 bench. I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes by posting that link but in my G5 induced mania I threw up this new thread. Bye the way did you push all the setting to the max like textures and whatnot or did you use the default max settings?

All settings maxed out at 1024x768 (texture quality etc.). Don't worry about linking the page, it's no problem. I found out because of the increasing traffic coming from forums.macnn.com.


Busemann: 10.2.7 indeed. Edit: Preproduction unit. Same revision that was shown at the WWDC the Apple salesman said.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by macnnhelpme:
Then I guess it never happens?

Never happens? Should Apple account for EVERY instance that might crop up? Cuz I know pro sound editor that would LOVE PCI slots. Since sound development is one of Apple's biggest market I am surprised that they are turning there backs on them.

[11011001]

Originally posted by Busemann:
The G4 maxed out at 720GB - only 220GB more than the G5. Those who need more than half a terabyte of storage should invest in a RAID setup if you ask me.

But wouldn't it be nice to have internal RAID? Tough to do on a G5.

I have 4 HDs on hardware RAID 0, sometimes even 6 HDs (2 on just regualar ATA) in my computer at once (for a whopping 833 GB internal storage, of course formatted capacity is less).

External RAID is an option, but seek times aren't going to be as fast as internal drives.

But what I have is overkill. It's nice to be able to copy 100 mb files into archive in 3 seconds, but it's not necessary. I doubt most pros need more than 500 GB of fast storage space, most of it could be external RAID, or firewire drives.

Two things that I wouldn't mind on the G5s are one or two more PCI slots, and more drive room, but, these are just wishes.. just like I wish I could afford one, and stick a whole bunch of stuff in it.

[Link]

One thing you may not notice about the g5 is that the hard drives (well extra ones at least) are hot swappable, another advantage of SATA

And chalk me up as one of the multiple hard drive users.. sometimes I have as many as 3 hard drives in my g4.. only prob is they're so damn hard to swap, even with thumbscrews on everything..

They always said the door on the g4s was supposed to make things easier but I've come across too many situations where it made it HARDER.

[Hydra]

Originally posted by Link:
One thing you may not notice about the g5 is that the hard drives (well extra ones at least) are hot swappable, another advantage of SATA

And chalk me up as one of the multiple hard drive users.. sometimes I have as many as 3 hard drives in my g4.. only prob is they're so damn hard to swap, even with thumbscrews on everything..

They always said the door on the g4s was supposed to make things easier but I've come across too many situations where it made it HARDER.

Yes, SATA is hot-swappable but the first generation of devices may or may not support this feature. I hope the G5 supports this but I know it is up to the manufacturer to implement it. The chances for an internal SATA interface that is first generation to be hot swappable is pretty low but I would love to see it in there.

-Jerry C.

[hadocon]

Originally posted by NAYR X:
Not that I am taking either side, but it seems to me that with a plethora of firewire/USB2 drives and storage solutions available, the decision to not include multiple drivebays in a highly stylized design is self explanitory. (?)

It is all about getting more that one internal drive... External? No thanks, external drives don't sleep, are easy to steal and add to clutter and noise. The G5 case is huge people, look @ the pics.

I currently have 2 internal drives (over 300 gigs) and I am about to buy another as they are all full

[Eriamjh]

Originally posted by Hydra:
Yes, SATA is hot-swappable but the first generation of devices may or may not support this feature. I hope the G5 supports this but I know it is up to the manufacturer to implement it. The chances for an internal SATA interface that is first generation to be hot swappable is pretty low but I would love to see it in there.

-Jerry C.

Why does it need to be hot swappable? Sounds like a feature only 1% of users might need.

And since the computer shuts down when you remove the clear cover, the HDs CANNOT be hot-swappable even if the chips supported it.

[Link]

hey, don't put a damper on it yet, yes I know it's a pain in the butt and shouldn't have to be this way, but with a few pieces of erector set, and a few screws, anything is possible

That case IS huge... this is my reasoning ^_^

[Arkham_c]

The case is so large because the heat sinks for the CPUs are massive. I bet they weight 3lbs apiece.

I think the lack of a second optical bay is a negative (primarily because I would like a 52x CDRW drive in there with the SD), but I think for most users two internal HD bays will be sufficient. For those who need more storage, I suspect you should look at Apple's XServer RAID, which can hold a LOT of data (2.52TB) and access it VERY quickly (2GB FibreChannel is very fast).

[Hydra]

Originally posted by Eriamjh:
Why does it need to be hot swappable? Sounds like a feature only 1% of users might need.

And since the computer shuts down when you remove the clear cover, the HDs CANNOT be hot-swappable even if the chips supported it.

You're right most don't need it but it's nice to have this feature but you're wrong about the clear cover. It only goes to about 2/3 the way up and the drive bays are not covered - check the link I posted above with the pictures. It was made so you could run the G5 with the metal door off but they did leave the top section uncovered.

-Jerry C.

[awcopus]

Arkham, you and everyone else who suggests that people who need more than ONE extra HD slot look at the XRaid...which starts at $6000 for 720 GB....are you being sarcastic? Are you trying to be profoundly insensitive? Because I'm sure you and others making this suggestion are generally good people. I believe that. But the suggestion makes you come across as a little hostile.

As of last night, I have 800 GB of storage in my Quicksilver. Replaced my 60 GB startup disc with a 200 GB drive. So cheap from hypermicro.com, I just couldn't resist.

My 800 GB of storage, 600 of which I use as dedicated scratch discs for video editing, cost me approximately $1 per GB. I'm using WD Caviar drives with 8MB of cache. Throw in the Sonnet Tempo card and I'm at just under $1000 for this functionality. For DV editing, it's a perfect storage situation. Affordable and effective for DV. The XRaid is capable of 400MB/s throughput. It's awesome for HD editing and beyond overkill for most people.

The G5 renders my drives unusable, the Sonnet is incompatible with PCI-X, yadda yadda yadda I don't care. Progress demands that we move to new standards. Okay, I'm on board. But the HD limit drives (excuse the pun) one to consider external solutions that are either more expensive and much slower (any firewire solution) or way more expensive, faster, but way less capacious (any SCSI solution) or .... <fingers crossed> some vendor is going to release something we haven't seen yet, an external SATA or ATA/133 enclosure powered by an as yet nonexistent PCI-X card.

http://www.lafcpug.org/phorum/read.p...10#reply_34610

[Busemann]

Originally posted by awcopus:
Arkham, you and everyone else who suggests that people who need more than ONE extra HD slot look at the XRaid...

Well, there is always FireWire...

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by awcopus:
Arkham, you and everyone else who suggests that people who need more than ONE extra HD slot look at the XRaid...which starts at $6000 for 720 GB....are you being sarcastic? Are you trying to be profoundly insensitive? Because I'm sure you and others making this suggestion are generally good people. I believe that. But the suggestion makes you come across as a little hostile.

I certainly did not intend to be hostile; if I came across that way I apologize.

The real point is, where do you draw the line? If two drives is insufficent, would three be acceptable? Four? More? I believe that for most of Apple's customers, getting two 250GB SATA drives in their machine will serve their needs for the forseeable future. By the time it does not, affordable 500GB and larger drives will be available.

If you need more storage than that, but not as much as an Xserve RAID, there are some very fast, affordable Firewire solutions. LaCie has some really nice external 400GB or 500GB FireWire 800 drives. They're a little above your $1/GB, but are in the ballpark and will come down in price as more 800Mbps devices surface. The 100MB/sec throughput should be sufficient for anything you can throw at it.

[Short Circuit]

Who on earth is the video in .avi ???

I cant play it with QuickTime 6, all I get is an empty background with voices.

W

[Torquemada.m@c]

It's the default video format of the Casio Exilim EX-Z3. I recommend downloading MPlayer or VLC (see versiontracker) since you will often find movies that the Quicktime Player doesn't play.

[awcopus]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
...some really nice external 400GB or 500GB FireWire 800 drives. They're a little above your $1/GB, but are in the ballpark and will come down in price as more 800Mbps devices surface. The 100MB/sec throughput should be sufficient for anything you can throw at it.

Arkham, you didn't owe me an apology, but thank you for the sentiment. I guess the reason that particular rec. comes across badly is because the XServe is so incredibly expensive and overpowered for DV editing.

Unfortunately, in the real world, FW800 does not match the performance of ATA/133. Yet. Maybe something's coming that will make this the case.

Fingers crossed for 3rd party vendors to come through.

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
The real point is, where do you draw the line? If two drives is insufficent, would three be acceptable? Four? More? I believe that for most of Apple's customers, getting two 250GB SATA drives in their machine will serve their needs for the forseeable future. By the time it does not, affordable 500GB and larger drives will be available.

Let's say I want a basic RAID array, using a RAID technique greater than 0 or 1. I need at least 3 drive bays. Most PC workstation cases have at least 4 hard drive bays, and at least 4 drive bays for removable media. The MDD G4 has 4 hard drive bays.

Now for most people, the vast majority of people in fact, 2 drive bays are enough. But let's not forget that Apple has pulled the plug on the clones and eliminated our choice of vendors. If I need 4 drive bays in a tower case, it doesn't exist for the 64-bit Mac platform, and there's no clone vendor to serve that niche. Given that, Apple should try to cater to as many needs as possible.

That said, I personally don't see the 2-hard-drive-limit as being all that bad, given how very, very few people would be limited by that. The limitation on external drives of a single optical drive bay, however, is crazy. There isn't even room for a Zip drive. And don't start with the "there's always external USB/firewire" argument. External drives are significantly more expensive, clutter your desk, and are a pain if you transport your machine (like to LAN parties) frequently. Back in the beige days, high-end Macs had 5 drive bays. Heck, my dinky little biege G3 desktop is more expandable than the G5. About the only thing that isn't is the LC II. I thought they were starting to make progress when the MDD G4 made it's 2nd drive bay 5.25 instead of 3.5 and added a hard drive bay, but now they take a step backward again.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
Let's say I want a basic RAID array, using a RAID technique greater than 0 or 1. I need at least 3 drive bays. Most PC workstation cases have at least 4 hard drive bays, and at least 4 drive bays for removable media. The MDD G4 has 4 hard drive bays.

It was probably just a size/heat issue. Apple decided that it was more important to them for the machine to be quiet than expandable. They could run those 9 fans at full speed and cram more drives in the case. Or, they can wait until they can get the G5 down to a smaller die size and producing less heat, and that too will allow them to increase expandability.

I suspect that if this machine's internal capacity is insufficient for you, a future revision will address that.

The limitation on external drives of a single optical drive bay, however, is crazy. There isn't even room for a Zip drive. And don't start with the "there's always external USB/firewire" argument.

No argument from me there.

[SalBaker]

Originally posted by mamamia:
what the hell are you blathering about? this thing isn't an imac. this thing was designed from the ground up to be a workstation. apple is marketing as such. if it is going to do workstation duty, or become the primary video editing suite that apple is tyring to position it as, it needs a third drive bay. prosummers don't spend $3000 on a computer. professionals do. if they have a problem with it, perhaps apple should listen.

The majority of professionals are on Avid systems, and NONE of the media is on internal drives. Pro systems require additional hardware support, and have always required many external drives to do long-form uncompressed video projects. Video pros don't expect the new G5 workstation's internal drives to accommodate anything other than applications, OS, drivers, etc.

The Avid Media Composers we have, which run on SP 733mhz G4's with 1 internal drive, have external racks of 8 hot-swappable drives (you can have up to 14 drives per Avid). This is important because of the size of the media files AND for the ability to swap drives for many different projects.

Multiple Internal drives are mostly only needed for pro-summer video editors using DV.

[awcopus]

"Multiple Internal drives are mostly only needed for pro-summer video editors using DV."

SalBaker, you nailed it.

As both a Pro-Summer :-)

and professsional DV editor (as in, this is a big part of how I make my living), I have felt stressed out over Apple's abandonment, if only temporary, of HD expandability.

I know that there are tons of other users (I use "tons" because I only know of a few hundred anecdotally, but don't really know how many there actually are) who like me are feeling shocked by the G5's disturbing & exciting mix of incredible MOBO improvements and expandability eliminations. I meet them at B&H, I get plenty of emails from people confronted with the same issue, I encounter them on this and other discussion boards. It's an issue.

We're the class of entrepreneurs who bought G4 Powermacs and Final Cut Pro and (mini)DV editing stations and have been ecstatic users of the Mac platform for its no-nonsense functionality in our budding businesses. And we find the G5 SO exciting for the productivity gains it promises.

But the consensus among users like me is that the G4 enclosure is worth sticking with because it "just works" for our setup. As a technophile eager to use Apple's latest and greatest, this is a craptacular situation to find myself in. Honestly, I am torn. I may be indicative of a small percentage of Apple's pro-user market, but it's not an insubstantial percentage and it's growing. We spend money on FCP and DVDSP, AppleCare, Apple monitors (I have the 23" and the 22")...in other words, we're the kind of customers Apple loves. And we feel a little deflated and anxious.

God, I sound like the Borg. "We" must go to sleep now. </end of whining>

[Short Circuit]

Not only DV, but also servers make use of more then two drives.

I am about to make a image database, with content reaching terabyte level.
And for this I had imagined a G4 with a RAID card, and four drives But this is not ppossible with a G5.
Yeah I nkow "Get a Xserve!" But they cost a lot, and cannot be controled directly, but a G4 can.


W

[delrossi]

SalBaker,
Not to rain on your parade But…
are you saying that the only viable Professional High End Video editing platform is the Avid Media Compo$er???
Avid is fine and dandy but I happen to work with a group of editors that work exclusivily on FCP .
they produce Trailers for motion pictures (they're the comming attractions that you see in front of the movies) as well as tv spots. They cut on FCP and do a film finish.
For them to have gotten the same quality (for presentation) as the Avid they would have had to have spent $40,000 for each editing station!! (This is why quite a few editing houses in LA have switched over to FCP. )
I produce titles and motion graphic effects for them. In DV res a single project could easily eat up 60 gigs of HD space. Not to mention that if I need to work with the original scans off the film that could quadruple (each frame at 1/2 cineon res is 1.5 meg X 30frames per second X the length of the spot.) . I have an 2 80 gig drives filled with textures and effects that I use as my library and thats just the DV res!
Should I buy one G5 per a job??
You know I might just have more than one job going at a time.
More internals are not just a luxury they are a necessity.
And just because I don't use an Avid don't assume that I am not a professional

[awcopus]

delrossi, I completely identify with the pitch of your response, because it is remarkable how consistently people in general, even in the "pro" mac discussion groups, simply dismiss the HD expandability issue as affecting a relatively small group.

The context here is Apple's massive push in recent history to cater to DV video professionals such as myself, and higher-end professionals like you who are working on actual film productions. I am feeling what you are feeling, thrilled about core aspects of the G5 technology and undermined by Apple's product design choices. Even if they were necessary choices owing to the cooling needs of the G5 and the costs associated with making the enclosure larger, I think we all can see that Apple's taken steps forward and backward with the new machines.

Others have noted that initial versions of other Macs weren't as expandable as they came to be when the chips and mobos were able to be shrunk.

Anyway, on another message board a fellow just recommended that I take a look at:
http://www.magma.com/pci/7slot6466/index.html

The sickening irony here is that it sets us back at least $2500 just to achieve functionality we already have in our G4s... basically, support for more than 1 scratch disc. How's that for LAME.

Meanwhile.... the 1.42 duallie beckons to me..."Buy me Adam. I won't be as zippy as the G5, but neither will I include expandability that the G5 will rape your wallet to match. Hurry. I won't be around for much longer."

[Arkham_c]

It sounds like the "DV" crowd definitely needs the four internal disks. I assume to do so you have to add an ATA card.

I suspect that if there are as many of you as this semi-random poll suggests, that Apple will respond in a future update with more drive capacity in the box.

I think this current G5 was designed for me (the high-end software developer and occasional 3D gamer and DV editor). I don't even need 500GB; the default 160GB of disk space will suite people like me just fine.

[awcopus]

Can barely contain myself. hehehe

On verge of selling my Mac for $1600, turning around and buying MDD 1.42 duallie for effective price of $550. tee hee hee

Ten dollars more than I spent on my iPod at the SOHO store.

BWWWWAAAAHHAHHAHHAHHHAAAAAA!

WWWOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO!

Now that's going to make it a whole helluvalot easier to wait for a more affordable, perhaps more expandable duallie G5.

YEAH!

[delrossi]

Arkham_c
As in my earlier post It's not just the "DV" crowd (as you stated) but other "Professionals" as well.
Yes I have firewire drives and they serve a purpose but I need to have a large amount of disk space internally as well. I, as well as a lot of other people, have been migrating to larger capacity drives as the need arises but don't need to get rid of their older drives just yet. having the extra physical space to have 4 drives (min) is a great asset.
So please don't use labels as that not only offends people it also shows your limitation to grasp the complete picture.

[SalBaker]

Originally posted by delrossi:
SalBaker,
Not to rain on your parade But…
are you saying that the only viable Professional High End Video editing platform is the Avid Media Compo$er???
Avid is fine and dandy but I happen to work with a group of editors that work exclusivily on FCP .
they produce Trailers for motion pictures (they're the comming attractions that you see in front of the movies) as well as tv spots. They cut on FCP and do a film finish.
For them to have gotten the same quality (for presentation) as the Avid they would have had to have spent $40,000 for each editing station!! (This is why quite a few editing houses in LA have switched over to FCP. )
I produce titles and motion graphic effects for them. In DV res a single project could easily eat up 60 gigs of HD space. Not to mention that if I need to work with the original scans off the film that could quadruple (each frame at 1/2 cineon res is 1.5 meg X 30frames per second X the length of the spot.) . I have an 2 80 gig drives filled with textures and effects that I use as my library and thats just the DV res!
Should I buy one G5 per a job??
You know I might just have more than one job going at a time.
More internals are not just a luxury they are a necessity.
And just because I don't use an Avid don't assume that I am not a professional

Please read my post again and save yourself all the angst.

"are you saying that the only viable Professional High End Video editing platform is the Avid Media Compo$er???"

Of course not. I clearly said the majority of professionals are using Avid systems. Avid still has the largest installed base of systems in the industry. Will that be true in the future? I doubt it. We have 32 Avid off-line or on-line systems, but we are also moving to FCP, and because our editors have worked on Avids for years, we have been buying Avid Express DV systems to replace aging media composers used for off-line.

I was merely responding to a post stating that if the G5 is to become the primary video editing suite that apple is trying to position it as, it needs a third drive bay. Those who are using Avid pro systems are doing so now with only 1 internal drive. That was my point.

We do TV spots and movie trailers too. Many post houses I occasionally use have switched to FCP. But they have maxed out their G4's with internal drives and still need external firewire drives to accommodate large client lists.

Like I said, DV editing, especially for short-form video projects do require more internal drives. But most of our work is uncompressed video documentaries that average 60 -90 minutes in length, and we do lots of them. Four internal ATA drives wouldn't begin to handle the media. For others like us, a limit of only 2 internal drives in a G5 wouldn't even be a consideration in the decision to purchase. We will always need more external drives, particularly ones that are hot-swappable.

BTW, we posted a 90 minute doc on FCP and found that it beats the Avids on effects quality, has infinitely better audio support, and many other advance features. Where the Avids compete more favorably is in list management for long-form documentary projects. But FCP is getting closer all the time.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by delrossi:
Arkham_c
As in my earlier post It's not just the "DV" crowd (as you stated) but other "Professionals" as well.
Yes I have firewire drives and they serve a purpose but I need to have a large amount of disk space internally as well. I, as well as a lot of other people, have been migrating to larger capacity drives as the need arises but don't need to get rid of their older drives just yet. having the extra physical space to have 4 drives (min) is a great asset.
So please don't use labels as that not only offends people it also shows your limitation to grasp the complete picture.

Dude, you need to get some thicker skin if I offended you. I was very polite in my post.

No one besides the people who do digital video have come up with a good reason for needing more than 500GB of internal storage. Not to mention the fact that there will be 500GB SATA drives out within 6 months (according to Hitachi, who makes a 250GB drive now), bringing the internal capacity to 1TB. So tell us, without doing digital video, what do you need to store internally that takes up more than 1TB of disk space?